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u.s. politics: is this purity test covered under my obamacare?


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1 minute ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Oh I don't know, as shitty as Trump is to the media, why should they play nice?

Yeah, I don't have any problem with the tenor of it. He's earned every ounce of ridicule. It just seems a bit low rent for what was once a respectable publication. It just doesn't look like a Newsweek cover, ya know? 

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I've been with @Kalbear that Trumps rating can't drop below the 39-40 he's been at, because his supporters won't abandon his team. Criminal behavior wouldn't matter. No scandal matters. Treason doesn't matter. Literally nothing will move the needle, they are on his team.

but now we've seen that they will leave his team and we've seen what motivates them to leave his team.

losing.

trump built his brand on winning. He promised winning. Thus far he only loses support from his supporters when he loses.

this means that the strategy of total obstruction democrats used on health care is the only way democrats can successfully reduce Trumps support. Democrats cannot persuade Trumps supporters to switch sides or drop support. No amount of scandal nor criminal action can convince trump supporters to drop support.

trump losing can convince trump supporters to drop support.

so the absolute worst thing democrats can do is cooperate on taxes. Or cooperate on infrastructure. Because the only mechanism to reduce Trumps support is denying trump wins, by making trump lose.

people hate seeing their head coach cause their team to lose. A lot of SC fans were supporters of Lane Kiffin at first, that didn't last once the losing started.

lots of losing is the only guaranteed way to cause the head coaching job to turnover. 

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Ya know, I hadn't thought about that but you're right, @lokisnow. I had talked about the GOP and the bandwagoners as only caring about winning, but I hadn't taken that to its logical conclusion; the best way to make Trump lose support is to paint him as a loser, over and over again. 

Heck, I just had a drive-by debate on facebook with a guy who embodies this - who couldn't name a single thing Trump did (but liked his 'policies') but was mostly just happy because his guy 'won'. That is the current GOP mentality, and painting him as a total loser is a good thing.

Plus there's no real value in cooperating with him on anything. The rest of congress, possibly - but not him, never. Always fight. Never quit. 

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3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

That's funny, but kind of sad at the same time. I can remember when Newsweek was a respectable magazine. That looks like a Mad magazine cover.

That's because reality is currently looking like something out of Mad magazine.

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3 hours ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Oh I don't know, as shitty as Trump is to the media, why should they play nice?

Except...Trump and the mainstream media have a sort of symbiotic relationship, albeit an unhealthy one.

 

Trump gets to feel good bashing the 'Fake News Media,' making himself and his followers feel good.  The mainstream media, for their part, gets a never ending succession of scandals and bizarre declarations to report on, thus boosting circulation. Neither party has an incentive to quit the relationship.

 

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21 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Has Trump gone to a state that Clinton won yet? 

The rally last week where he gave that speech to cops about doing away with due process was on Long Island. That's about the only blue state event that comes to mind and from what I know they love him on LI anyway. 

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22 minutes ago, Ghjhero said:

The rally last week where he gave that speech to cops about doing away with due process was on Long Island. That's about the only blue state event that comes to mind and from what I know they love him on LI anyway. 

Good point. So far, Trump's lone blue state visit has been to egg on police violence. Lovely. 

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8 hours ago, lokisnow said:

but now we've seen that they will leave his team and we've seen what motivates them to leave his team.

losing.

 

7 hours ago, Kalbear said:

Ya know, I hadn't thought about that but you're right, @lokisnow. I had talked about the GOP and the bandwagoners as only caring about winning, but I hadn't taken that to its logical conclusion; the best way to make Trump lose support is to paint him as a loser, over and over again. 

Losing by itself won't be enough. It has to be embarrassing. 

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Anyone else think this sudden focus on the Clinton's could be Trump's main undoing when it comes to congressional support?  Part of Nixon's articles of impeachment were using federal agencies and power to investigate and punish political rivals.  I think this is one of those 'norms' that might not be up for change.  I don't think anyone wants to lose an election and then be investigated because of it.

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1 hour ago, Nasty LongRider said:

Which leads us back to the Newsweek cover, they are trying to embarrass him.

That won't work though. He has to do it to himself, publicly, and in an undeniable fashion. And probably over and over again. 

1 hour ago, aceluby said:

Anyone else think this sudden focus on the Clinton's could be Trump's main undoing when it comes to congressional support?  Part of Nixon's articles of impeachment were using federal agencies and power to investigate and punish political rivals.  I think this is one of those 'norms' that might not be up for change.  I don't think anyone wants to lose an election and then be investigated because of it.

That's a hard no. Republicans hate her. It's catnip to them. It hurt Nixon because bipartisan sentiment was still the norm back then. 

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The Grand Jury is being impaneled.  Subpoenas for testimony, documents and other materials are going out for the jury to examine.  This is going to be at least 18 months process toward any verdict for or against indictment.  The amount of destruction that will be wreaked by him and his in those 18 months we may never be able to repair.

Miller's investigation isn't about going for impeachment, though what he and the jury discover could lead to impeachment process, or the attempt for an impeachment process.  Or am I wrong in thinking these are not the same process, but separate?  That someone else could make a case for impeachment with their own investigations? 

He's down to - 33% approval now.  Or, as an African American famously has said: "We always knew one third of the US was racist."

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9 minutes ago, Zorral said:

He's down to - 33% approval now.  Or, as an African American famously has said: "We always knew one third of the US was racist."

Unfortunately this is overstating things.  Quinnipiac had him at 33% in their latest poll, but that is the worst result for him in the past couple of months.  His polling average on 538 is 37%, with a net of -20.  Which is still terrible, but there's actually a pretty big difference between 37% and 33%, since he's already in the single digits with Democrats and the mid-20s with independents.  Dropping another 4% nationally more or less has to come from Republicans (or at the least, Republican leaning independents), and losing that many people from either group isn't easy for a Republican President to do. 

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43 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

      1 hour ago, aceluby said:

Anyone else think this sudden focus on the Clinton's could be Trump's main undoing when it comes to congressional support?  Part of Nixon's articles of impeachment were using federal agencies and power to investigate and punish political rivals.  I think this is one of those 'norms' that might not be up for change.  I don't think anyone wants to lose an election and then be investigated because of it.

That's a hard no. Republicans hate her. It's catnip to them. It hurt Nixon because bipartisan sentiment was still the norm back then. 

But they have to see that by setting that precedent they are setting their own party up.  I disagree.  No matter how much they hate her, they have to protect the party first

 

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2 minutes ago, Lany Freelove Cassandra said:

But they have to see that by setting that precedent they are setting their own party up.  I disagree.  No matter how much they hate her, they have to protect the party first

In addition, I doubt that Republican Senators hate Clinton nearly as much as the Republican base does.  She was in the club, and they almost always have at least some affection for alumni. 

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1 minute ago, theguyfromtheVale said:

Only if they allow Democrats to win nationally ever again.

The main reason Republican Senators aren't ditching the filibuster is because they know that at some point Democrats will control the chamber, and they remember how important the filibuster was in stymieing Obama's agenda.  McConnell has explicitly said as much. 

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 In just two weeks we have seen all his old hits: "Obama is responsible for everything bad," "Hillary is a criminal," "Ewww LGBT," "Brown people are scary." He has already entered the aging rockstar phase, but as long as these sentiments stir up the frothing cesspool of humanity that is his base, don't expect anything more than mild "tsk tsks" from Republicans

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