Week Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, The Fallen said: What states did Hillary win that Bernie would have lost and what states did Hillary lose that Bernie could have won? I'm not one with the interest or patience to posit what would have happened in that parallel dimension. Far too many unknowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yukle Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Week said: I'm not one with the interest or patience to posit what would have happened in that parallel dimension. Far too many unknowns. That's a sensible approach. Part of Sanders' appeal came from a lack of the close scrutiny that would have been applied to him had he won his party's nomination. He may have won, he may have not, but the fact that a majority of Democrats at the primaries preferred another candidate indicates that his support is not as strong as it seems. He'd be on the nose with hard-line right-wing people in the USA, so losing a chunk of his own party would have made it really hard for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkynJay Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I would love to find the article released soon after the election in which the author gave just a glimpse of the attack file being built on Bernie by the conservative machine. It wasn't pretty, not because it was anything new but because context would go right out the window and leave only an ugly story for the very middle class white voters he would have supposedly pulled better. The right held back from attacking Bernie, possible because they never thought he had a strong chance and they were able to direct their attacks against HRC for months. This isn't to rehash what happened, just a reminder that we never saw what they right could have done in an all out blitz on Bernie. Speculating on what happened instead is a bit foolish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ormond Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 2 hours ago, ThinkerX said: (I also seem to be the only one on this site who actually does take the telephone polls.) I That seems to be an unwarranted assumption. Just because others don't mention answering polls doesn't mean they don't do it. I almost always am willing to talk with pollsters (the main exception being when they call when I am on my way out the door for work or another scheduled event.) Over three decades ago I worked one summer for the University of Michigan consumer confidence survey, so I try to be accommodating to those who've been hired to do this work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, Triskan said: David Frum is as principled a man as there is, and Dennis Prager and Tomi Lehren are human scum. Michael Steele is kinda OK. no he's not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, Triskan said: David Frum is as principled a man as there is, and Dennis Prager and Tomi Lehren are human scum. Michael Steele is kinda OK. Love the recent stuff he's done with Sam Harris surrounding Trump. Really compelling speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Triskan said: Why do you guys say that? I get he doesn't tow the line on Islam. is there no middle ground though? He is one of the most articulate destroyers of Trump. Does that mean nothing? I think most of the condemnation he gets from the Left is that he wrote speeches for Dubya and probably defends that administration to a degree that is somewhat problematic. For my money, he is one of the most well reasoned, logical voices on the Right. Listening to that panel you posted right now, and he is by far the most reasonable voice on that panel. I'm with you. There is such a thing as a reasonable Conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Triskan said: Why do you guys say that? I get he doesn't tow the line on Islam. is there no middle ground though? He is one of the most articulate destroyers of Trump. Does that mean nothing? so he speaks out against trump... in favor of what? equally vile neocon policies? this is the motherfucker that coined the phrase "axis of evil" and helped sell the iraq war ffs. does that mean nothing? does simply "saying the quiet parts quietly" count as principle these days? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 1 minute ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I think most of the condemnation he gets from the Left is that he wrote speeches for Dubya and probably defends that administration to a degree that is somewhat problematic. For my money, he is one of the most well reasoned, logical voices on the Right. Listening to that panel you posted right now, and he is by far the most reasonable voice on that panel. I'm with you. There is such a thing as a reasonable Conservative. reasonable does not equal moral. fine, he may be principled, but his principles are fucking garbage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 13 minutes ago, Triskan said: Manhole - I saw your response too, thanks.\ rll - this response suggests that you are completely locked into 2003 or 2004. Is that the case? no, but it suggests you may have forgotten it eta: this is him, six hours ago, implying usa's decades long bombing campaigns across the globe are righteous because they aren't "sneak attacks" (fucking lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 The enemy of my enemy is my friend at the end of the day. His distaste for Trump now is more important than his former defense of Iraq 15 years ago. We need more Conservatives who see Trump the way this guy does. It's that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 6 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: The enemy of my enemy is my friend at the end of the day. His distaste for Trump now is more important than his former defense of Iraq 15 years ago. We need more Conservatives who see Trump the way this guy does. It's that simple. lol ok buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 Just now, r'hllor's red lobster said: lol ok buddy I'm not defending Afghanistan or Iraq or really any American Military adventurism since WW2. Does David Frum hold some political opinions I don't care for? Sure. Right now, he is among the most important voices on the Right that is holding Trump's feet to the fire. That is worth lauding at this point. As shitty and dangerous as the Bush administration may have been, I don't believe them to be on par with our current administration. All I can suggest is that you give what he's saying about the Trump administration a listen. He is among the most critical voices on the Right at this moment in regards to Trump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 seriously, you guys want to defend david fucking frum, then give me something more than he's anti-trumpist, because that's like the lowest goddamn bar to hurdle. show me one thing, one single position or one action he has taken that i should laud him for.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manhole Eunuchsbane Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 8 minutes ago, r'hllor's red lobster said: seriously, you guys want to defend david fucking frum, then give me something more than he's anti-trumpist, because that's like the lowest goddamn bar to hurdle. show me one thing, one single position or one action he has taken that i should laud him for.... No one's suggesting we arm him with RPG's and AK-47s. It's more hey, check out David Frum dress down some shameless Trump defenders with reason and logic. That's kind of interesting and entertaining. Right now as far as I'm concerned any voice on the Right who expresses an appropriate amount of concern about Trump's alleged Russian collusion is one that should be lauded. Just as sycophants like Praeger and Lahren should be ridiculed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 16 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: I'm not defending Afghanistan or Iraq or really any American Military adventurism since WW2. Does David Frum hold some political opinions I don't care for? Sure. Right now, he is among the most important voices on the Right that is holding Trump's feet to the fire. That is worth lauding at this point. As shitty and dangerous as the Bush administration may have been, I don't believe them to be on par with our current administration. All I can suggest is that you give what he's saying about the Trump administration a listen. He is among the most critical voices on the Right at this moment in regards to Trump. you're missing the point, pal. "the enemy of my enemy" is a cute proverb, but that shit doesn't shake out in the real world, something the 'pragmatic' libs would do well to remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
all swedes are racist Posted August 9, 2017 Author Share Posted August 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said: No one's suggesting we arm him with RPG's and AK-47s. It's more hey, check out David Frum dress down some shameless Trump defenders with reason and logic. That's kind of interesting and entertaining. Right now as far as I'm concerned any voice on the Right who expresses an appropriate amount of concern about Trump's alleged Russian collusion is one that should be lauded. Just as sycophants like Praeger and Lahren should be ridiculed. they are just sycophants for different shitty regimes. jfc, give me one solid reason to concede david frum is good, as opposed to not quite as shitty. is that really so much to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inigima Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I think the best you can say for David Frum is that he means well. He has consistently bad opinions -- by bad I mean incorrect, inaccurate, unwarranted -- which he occasionally admits are wrong once the results are in. I certainly prefer Frum to, say, Corey Lewandowski, but he's just Less Bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fallen Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 I'm with the red lobster. I can't believe what I'm reading. I can understand seeing allies in the fight against Trump in the form of Frum, but let's not get carried away and rewrite history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted August 9, 2017 Share Posted August 9, 2017 5 hours ago, r'hllor's red lobster said: lol ok buddy You are aware that the Mujahadeen who fought the Soviets are not the same people who became the Taliban, right? The Taliban is largely made up of the orphaned sons of Mujahadeen fighters. See, Taliban (2000), by Pakistani Journalist Ahmed Rashid: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban:_Militant_Islam,_Oil_and_Fundamentalism_in_Central_Asia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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