snow is the man

So did anyone else notice dany just broke the laws of hospitality?

86 posts in this topic

She essentially made jon and his men prisoners in all but name. Jon had his men disarm just like she wanted and followed every rule and yet she took his ship and stranded him on her island. She also basically said they were being sent to rooms where they would have a bath and meals. Kinda sounds like she was locking them in a very nice prison cell doesn't it. Yes she eventually let him out and yes he could walk around the island but he couldn't leave. I understood why she did it in astapor (essentially broke the rules) and even liked it but she had invited jon to dragonstone which pretty much means he is supposed to be safe. I have liked dany in previous seasons but this was unacceptable.  Why is noone else mentioning this

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Dany has murdered people she is negotiating with several times now.  In a well-written world, she would be a sociopath.

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Posted (edited)

I did! I suppose that ignoring thousands years old customs qualify you as the best potential ruler...

I mean, it's possible that Dany doesn't know about the guest right, she didn't grow up in Westeros. But it's ridiculous that Tyrion or Varys don't point it out to her...

Edited by Nerevanin

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15 hours ago, snow is the man said:

She essentially made jon and his men prisoners in all but name. Jon had his men disarm just like she wanted and followed every rule and yet she took his ship and stranded him on her island. She also basically said they were being sent to rooms where they would have a bath and meals. Kinda sounds like she was locking them in a very nice prison cell doesn't it. Yes she eventually let him out and yes he could walk around the island but he couldn't leave. I understood why she did it in astapor (essentially broke the rules) and even liked it but she had invited jon to dragonstone which pretty much means he is supposed to be safe. I have liked dany in previous seasons but this was unacceptable.  Why is noone else mentioning this

Well, until she actually prevents Jon from leaving I disagree.  As of now, Jon still wants to be there because he needs the Dragonglass and he needs her as an ally.  She is doing right by him IMO by allowing him to mine the Dragonglass.  But yes, I'd agree if Jon truly makes it clear he wants to leave but he has not done that yet.

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18 hours ago, snow is the man said:

She essentially made jon and his men prisoners in all but name. Jon had his men disarm just like she wanted and followed every rule and yet she took his ship and stranded him on her island. She also basically said they were being sent to rooms where they would have a bath and meals. Kinda sounds like she was locking them in a very nice prison cell doesn't it. Yes she eventually let him out and yes he could walk around the island but he couldn't leave. I understood why she did it in astapor (essentially broke the rules) and even liked it but she had invited jon to dragonstone which pretty much means he is supposed to be safe. I have liked dany in previous seasons but this was unacceptable.  Why is noone else mentioning this

They're not laws. More like guidelines.

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I believe technically for guest right to apply, the guest has to have eaten and drank something from the host. Catelyn makes a point of this when they first visit the Freys, immediately asking for food and drink.( even though we now know how little protection guest right gave them later against the Freys)

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3 hours ago, Tagganaro said:

Well, until she actually prevents Jon from leaving I disagree.  As of now, Jon still wants to be there because he needs the Dragonglass and he needs her as an ally.  She is doing right by him IMO by allowing him to mine the Dragonglass.  But yes, I'd agree if Jon truly makes it clear he wants to leave but he has not done that yet.

In response to Tyrion saying Jon could go anywhere he wants, Jon said except my ship, you took my ship. So yeah, he essentially is a prisoner. They took his party's weapons so he is at Dany's mercy. 

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7 minutes ago, BrightStar Of The Day said:

I believe technically for guest right to apply, the guest has to have eaten and drank something from the host. Catelyn makes a point of this when they first visit the Freys, immediately asking for food and drink.( even though we now know how little protection guest right gave them later against the Freys)

Dany had supper sent to their rooms. 

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3 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Dany had supper sent to their rooms. 

Undoubtedly brought to them by a very friendly Dothraki waiter.

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10 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

Undoubtedly brought to them by a very friendly Dothraki waiter.

Ha ha ha. Eat this or I cut your throat. 

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36 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

They're not laws. More like guidelines.

Guest right is much more thana guideline. It is an ancient sacred tradition considered to be punishable by the gods if broken. Remember Bran telling Meera and Jojen the story of the rat king? 

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24 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

Dany had supper sent to their rooms. 

Oh don't misunderstand me I'm not supporting Dany at all. The thing is, her sending them to "their rooms" effectively making them prisoners, happened before they got their food, so she probably still "technically" didn't break guest right.

I realize it's a huge nitpick.

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30 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

In response to Tyrion saying Jon could go anywhere he wants, Jon said except my ship, you took my ship. So yeah, he essentially is a prisoner. They took his party's weapons so he is at Dany's mercy. 

I think there's a huge difference between "essentially" and actually is my point.  Jon has still yet to explicitly ask Dany to leave.  He is still benefiting from staying in Dragonstone, where Dany has given him the Dragonglass he came for in the first place and in the 2nd place he is still hoping to secure an alliance with her.  

So no, I don't think he actually wants to leave as of the moment and until he actually makes that clear and Dany denies him the ability to do so, he is not a prisoner.  

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8 minutes ago, BrightStar Of The Day said:

Oh don't misunderstand me I'm not supporting Dany at all. The thing is, her sending them to "their rooms" effectively making them prisoners, happened before they got their food, so she probably still "technically" didn't break guest right.

I realize it's a huge nitpick.

I get ya.  To me it was not allowing them to leave after she said they weren't prisoners and fed them that makes it violate guest right. But I guess we are splitting hairs at this point. ^_^

Bottom line, Dany is a hypocrital bitch who doesn't deserve to rule over a dung heap. 

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13 minutes ago, Tagganaro said:

I think there's a huge difference between "essentially" and actually is my point.  Jon has still yet to explicitly ask Dany to leave.  He is still benefiting from staying in Dragonstone, where Dany has given him the Dragonglass he came for in the first place and in the 2nd place he is still hoping to secure an alliance with her.  

So no, I don't think he actually wants to leave as of the moment and until he actually makes that clear and Dany denies him the ability to do so, he is not a prisoner.  

No, obviously he doesn't want to go back to WF yet.  But just as obviously he has been denied access to his ship, which for all practical purposes makes him a prisoner, albeit a privileged one. 

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19 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

I get ya.  To me it was not allowing them to leave after she said they weren't prisoners and fed them that makes it violate guest right. But I guess we are splitting hairs at this point. ^_^

Bottom line, Dany is a hypocrital bitch who doesn't deserve to rule over a dung heap. 

I'll not argue with you over that one haha

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48 minutes ago, SansaJonRule said:

No, obviously he doesn't want to go back to WF yet.  But just as obviously he has been denied access to his ship, which for all practical purposes makes him a prisoner, albeit a privileged one. 

 He's not leaving until he has the dragon glass. He was antsy for a little bit because before she said yes, she had to go deal with the bad news of getting her ass kicked on all fronts. But once she got the bad news, she said yes. And I doubt she lets him mine it just so it can sit at her docks- that's just stupid for both logically and the storyline.

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Tagganaro said:

I think there's a huge difference between "essentially" and actually is my point.  Jon has still yet to explicitly ask Dany to leave.  He is still benefiting from staying in Dragonstone, where Dany has given him the Dragonglass he came for in the first place and in the 2nd place he is still hoping to secure an alliance with her.  

So no, I don't think he actually wants to leave as of the moment and until he actually makes that clear and Dany denies him the ability to do so, he is not a prisoner.  

But he does, although later changed his mind,  he explicitly says to Tyrion that he needs to help his people for what is coming,  that he can't do it from there, and that  he wants to leave... and I did not hear Tyrion answering "You are free to leave whenever you want".
Anyway, I took Dani violation of guest right as plain ignorance. After all, show Dani was raised and educated by who? Vyseris and Illyrio? Hardly the best  teachers about Westerosi traditions.
But this "ignorance" is lazy writing too, with Tyrion as her adviser that shouldn't have happened. 
And I go farther, nor should have Dani offended Jon by taking their swords at his arrival, because this is like making clear that "the hosts" considered Jon himself capable of  eventuallly breaking guest right, and Tyrion knows Jon far too well for believing such a thing.

Edited by LucyMormont

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12 minutes ago, WCPhan said:

 He's not leaving until he has the dragon glass. He was antsy for a little bit because before she said yes, she had to go deal with the bad news of getting her ass kicked on all fronts. But once she got the bad news, she said yes. And I doubt she lets him mine it just so it can sit at her docks- that's just stupid for both logically and the storyline.

Oh well of course she has to let him go eventually. 

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