Ser Loras The Gay

Khal drogo marrying Dany, why?

110 posts in this topic

So, what is to gain for Khal drogo for marrying Daenerys? She doesn't have gold, she doesn't have an army and she is almost a nobody at that point in the history, so how again Illiryio convinced Khal drogo not only marry Dany but also not attack Pentos? I mean what are those terms? Khal drogo was trying to fullfill prophecies? I'm confused and I need to debate this with someone.

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The Dothraki don't do money, they do things. Daenerys is (was) a beautiful, young and fertile girl, she wouldn't need to have gold in order to be a desirable bride.

Viserys wanted an army so he could invade Westeros. The Dothraki don't care about what goes on in Westeros and Drogo was no exception. He would give Viserys the army he wanted (in his own time). I highly doubt Drogo would've joined Viserys on his conquest of Westeros, but would rather just have given Viserys what he wanted and then just continue his life doing whatever.

We also read multiple times that Drogo saw Dany not as a bargaining chip to be used in war, which most women in ASOIAF are married off for, but as a gift. Just because they were brothers-in-law, that doesn't mean that Drogo was in any way, shape or from obligated to go and fight for Viserys. The Dothraki follow the strong, afterall.

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Posted (edited)

His eventual gain was to plunder Westeros. And more significantly, there was simply no loss. He got to wed and bed a beautiful young Valyrian woman, an icon of the former oppression of Essos and royalty of Westeros. To the Dorthraki, Khal Drogo's taking of Danaerys represented a cultural conquest. Anything beyond that was just more shit the horses had to pull.

I don't recall that there was ever a real contract, being that that the Dothraki are not a literate culture, and ultimately Illyrio has no means of enforcement. Illyrio thought he'd found a warlord with intersecting long term interests, but anticipated neither the depth of Viserys's idiocy nor the fickle self interest of the Dothraki. It's pretty clear that Khal Drogo had little interest in conquering Westeros, and only changed his mind after the attempted poisoning. Even then, it was too late, as Illyrio's plan required the male Viserys to claim the monarchy.

Edited by cgrav

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Drogo is perhaps the most powerful khal of his time. He wants a bride that shoves in everybody's face how special he is. By marketing Daenerys as a Valyrian princess, Illyrio appealed to Drogo's sense of ambition and pride. Most khals probably just marry Dothraki women or particularly fetching slaves they've taken. Drogo marries a princess. And this decision is reinforced for Drogo when he hears from the Dosh Khaleen that the result of his union with said princess has created The Stallion Who Mounts the World. If you can't be TSWMtW, the next best thing is to be the man who fathered him.

Drogo didn't need to be convinced not to sack Pentos, he owns a manse there. He's not going to be burning down a city where he keeps a house. A magister of Pentos arranging for his marriage to a princess might increase Drogo's reasons for protecting the city from other khalasars though.

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He's a horselord who apparently liked his females very young and pretty. I doubt he would have married her had he found her unattractive or if she was deformed in some way.

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8 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

So, what is to gain for Khal drogo for marrying Daenerys? She doesn't have gold, she doesn't have an army and she is almost a nobody at that point in the history, so how again Illiryio convinced Khal drogo not only marry Dany but also not attack Pentos? I mean what are those terms? Khal drogo was trying to fullfill prophecies? I'm confused and I need to debate this with someone.

She was a smoking hot young woman.  Gorgeous and exotic. 

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Posted (edited)

Quote

"She has had her blood. She is old enough for the khal," Illyrio told him, not for the first time. "Look at her. That silver-gold hair, those purple eyes … she is the blood of old Valyria, no doubt, no doubt … and highborn, daughter of the old king, sister to the new, she cannot fail to entrance our Drogo."

Quote

 They dressed her in the wisps that Magister Illyrio had sent up, and then the gown, a deep plum silk to bring out the violet in her eyes. 

Quote

Khal Drogo spoke no word to her, but drove his stallion at a hard trot through the gathering dusk. The tiny silver bells in his long braid rang softly as he rode. "I am the blood of the dragon," she whispered aloud as she followed, trying to keep her courage up. "I am the blood of the dragon. I am the blood of the dragon." The dragon was never afraid.

Quote

Perhaps he had only that word, she thought, but it was one word more than she had known he had, and somehow it made her feel a little better. Drogo touched her hair lightly, sliding the silver-blond strands between his fingers and murmuring softly in Dothraki. Dany did not understand the words, yet there was warmth in the tone, a tenderness she had never expected from this man.

He put his finger under her chin and lifted her head, so she was looking up into his eyes. Drogo towered over her as he towered over everyone. Taking her lightly under the arms, he lifted her and seated her on a rounded rock beside the stream. Then he sat on the ground facing her, legs crossed beneath him, their faces finally at a height. "No," he said.

Quote

"The princess must be presented to the dosh khaleen …"

"The crones, yes," her brother interrupted, "and there's to be some mummer's show of a prophecy for the whelp in her belly, you told me. What is that to me? I'm tired of eating horsemeat and I'm sick of the stink of these savages."

It was for her blood, in an attempt to fulfill prophecy. It is likely that Illyrio paid the dosh khaleen to tell Drogo to seek a Valyrian bride in the first place, considering that he paid them to put on a "mummer's show of a prophecy".

Edit: IDK what the fuck some other people are talking about Dany being beautiful. She was a god damn child. She was 13. Drogo was like 30. And he had like 50,000 women in his khalasar alone. You're telling me none of those grown and mature women were more attractive than a 13-year-old girl? Bullshit. If you were Drogo, would you rather have sex with a 13-year-old, or with someone a bit closer to your own age?

Edited by 40 Thousand Skeletons

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What I failed to realize is that drogo doesn't seems to consider marriage an alliance pact like westerosi people do. He just wanted a woman for himself, but what I also fail to realize is why Dany? There must be a thousand other women just as hot or hotter than her, more mature, more fierce, more sexy etc. It's not just for her features I think. I agree with @40 Thousand Skeletons he wants something with her blood. For some reason the fact she's a targ and have king's blood from another continent will make a super baby with Khal drogo now... Where he learned that I'll never understand.

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10 hours ago, Ser Loras The Gay said:

So, what is to gain for Khal drogo for marrying Daenerys? She doesn't have gold, she doesn't have an army and she is almost a nobody at that point in the history, so how again Illiryio convinced Khal drogo not only marry Dany but also not attack Pentos? I mean what are those terms? Khal drogo was trying to fullfill prophecies? I'm confused and I need to debate this with someone.

The phrase you're looking for is "trophy wife".

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

IDK what the fuck some other people are talking about Dany being beautiful.

If you mean people in the forum, because of Amelia Clark, who's actually like 30, mainly. Plus how liberally folks in the books seem to use the word "beautiful." But it's not like being married off at 13 is strange in-world. 

Edited by Lord Vance II

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2 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

It was for her blood, in an attempt to fulfill prophecy. It is likely that Illyrio paid the dosh khaleen to tell Drogo to seek a Valyrian bride in the first place, considering that he paid them to put on a "mummer's show of a prophecy".

Excellent use of quotes to makeep your point. 

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4 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

It was for her blood, in an attempt to fulfill prophecy. It is likely that Illyrio paid the dosh khaleen to tell Drogo to seek a Valyrian bride in the first place, considering that he paid them to put on a "mummer's show of a prophecy".

I do think Drogo married Daenerys to fulfill prophecy, and yes, likely with the advice of the Dosh Khaleen, but I don't think Illyrio had any part of getting the Dosh Khaleen to give that advice. I expect it was a legitimate prophecy.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

It was for her blood, in an attempt to fulfill prophecy. It is likely that Illyrio paid the dosh khaleen to tell Drogo to seek a Valyrian bride in the first place, considering that he paid them to put on a "mummer's show of a prophecy".

I had overlooked this exchange! But I don't think this was any honest attempt to fulfill a prophecy, knowing Illyrio. The appeal to prophecy was likely only an inducement for Drogo and lent some glitz and glamor to the whole thing, just like the eggs. Drogo wouldn't even have to take the prophecy seriously to enjoy the exaltation and status.

It's like Melisandre's "fake it til you make it" approach, though there appears to be no indication that Illyrio thought Dany would actually fulfill anything (or even survive the Dothraki sea, if we can take his word for it). The Crones apparently false declaration gave Dany the confidence to follow her dreams/visions, which led to the dragons hatching.

Although I'm now curious: what could Illyrio offer the Dosh Khaleen? They are practically nuns living in a barter-based "economy", so it's not like the Crones themselves had any use for gold. Maybe that's who the dragon eggs were actually meant to impress?

Edited by cgrav

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44 minutes ago, cgrav said:

I had overlooked this exchange! But I don't think this was any honest attempt to fulfill a prophecy, knowing Illyrio. The appeal to prophecy was likely only an inducement for Drogo and lent some glitz and glamor to the whole thing, just like the eggs. Drogo wouldn't even have to take the prophecy seriously to enjoy the exaltation and status.

It's like Melisandre's "fake it til you make it" approach, though there appears to be no indication that Illyrio thought Dany would actually fulfill anything (or even survive the Dothraki sea, if we can take his word for it). The Crones apparently false declaration gave Dany the confidence to follow her dreams/visions, which led to the dragons hatching.

Although I'm now curious: what could Illyrio offer the Dosh Khaleen? They are practically nuns living in a barter-based "economy", so it's not like the Crones themselves had any use for gold. Maybe that's who the dragon eggs were actually meant to impress?

Perhaps Drogon is the Stallion that Mounts the World, and the cones were just a bit off? 

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Prophecy. That, and Dany is a very attractive girl. You cannot apply Westerossi logic to the Dothraki. As Viscerys found out. 

There's every reason for Illyrio to get rid of her too. Eventually, the IT would of dispatched assassins of some variety. Sending her away with a Khalasar not only rid Illyrio of the crosshair on his back, but also the Khalasar themselves who have to be appeased. Plus, Dany being the Khaleesi makes her a much harder target. You'd have to be suicidal to make an attempt on her life. 

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27 minutes ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps Drogon is the Stallion that Mounts the World, and the cones were just a bit off? 

Or they simply weren't wrong at all.

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1 hour ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Perhaps Drogon is the Stallion that Mounts the World, and the cones were just a bit off? 

Yes I think that's the irony we're meant to draw from the whole episode. Illyrio found the prophecy convenient to his plans, without any clue that it could actually happen. Like pretty much every prophecy in the books, it only gets fulfilled when people believe that it's false or avoidable.

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

It was for her blood, in an attempt to fulfill prophecy. It is likely that Illyrio paid the dosh khaleen to tell Drogo to seek a Valyrian bride in the first place, considering that he paid them to put on a "mummer's show of a prophecy".

Edit: IDK what the fuck some other people are talking about Dany being beautiful. She was a god damn child. She was 13. Drogo was like 30. And he had like 50,000 women in his khalasar alone. You're telling me none of those grown and mature women were more attractive than a 13-year-old girl? Bullshit. If you were Drogo, would you rather have sex with a 13-year-old, or with someone a bit closer to your own age?

Illyrio doesn't pay for everything behind the scenes in the same way that bloodraven doesn't warg everything behind the scenes, In fact, I am surprised you didn't posit that bloodraven/CTOF  skinchanged drogo to fall in love with dany or that the dosh khaleen were somehow remnants of the CTOF population in essos or something else crackpotty. 
Also, Dany was a physically mature woman at 13, and until very recently in history, as soon as a woman menstruated, she was ready for marriage 

Edited by Dorian Martell's son

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1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

Illyrio doesn't pay for everything behind the scenes in the same way that bloodraven doesn't warg everything behind the scenes, In fact, I am surprised you didn't posit that bloodraven/CTOF  skinchanged drogo to fall in love with dany or that the dosh khaleen were somehow remnants of the CTOF population in essos or something else crackpotty. 
Also, Dany was a physically mature woman at 13, and until very recently in history, as soon as a woman menstruated, she was ready for marriage 

Well the quote above pretty clearly shows that the Crones' prophetic announcement was planned and communicated to Jorah and Viserys ahead of time. At the very least it seems meant to provide Drogo with some reason to invade Westeros. Gold won't get the Dothraki there, but superstition (and anger) might. 

If Illyrio didn't arrange that, then who did? How did they have any idea that was going to happen?

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10 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

Edit: IDK what the fuck some other people are talking about Dany being beautiful. She was a god damn child. She was 13. Drogo was like 30. And he had like 50,000 women in his khalasar alone. You're telling me none of those grown and mature women were more attractive than a 13-year-old girl? Bullshit. If you were Drogo, would you rather have sex with a 13-year-old, or with someone a bit closer to your own age?

Considering the fact that he did have sex with Dany and simply watched the women of his khalasar dance, your answer is right in front of you. A much older man wedding and bedding a young girl is not at all uncommon in the books, so I'm surprised that you're shocked by it.

We repeatedly get descriptions of Dany that say that she is beautiful. Everywhere she goes, she is called beautiful and we really have no choice but to assume that she is a very beautiful girl.

 

And also, you seem to conflate finding someone beautiful and finding someone sexy; I am a heterosexual woman and throughout my life, I have seen many women whom I have considered beautiful, but not sexy. I've also seen many animals, such as horses, dogs and cats, just to name a few, that I've also found beautiful, but not sexy.

Thinking that someone is beautiful does not mean that you find them sexy.

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