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Muffin King

Are the Others going to disappoint?

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It feels surreal that the 5 books built up the others as the true enemy, yet everyone except for the Wildlings  and Night's Watch don't even know they exist. Is anyone else afraid that they are going to be suppressed way too quickly without even actually making an impact on Westeros?

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Posted (edited)

I don't think so, George had White Walkers for a long time, even in his first drafts, books got longer because of our POV's, I think WW are more or less the same, he had outcome in mind for a long, long time. I would never liked to find everything there is about WW to be honest.

Edited by BadWo1f

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1 minute ago, BadWo1f said:

I don't think so, George had White Walkers for a long time, even in his first drafts, books got longer because of our POV's, I think WW are more or less the same, he had outcome in mind for a long, long time. I would never liked to find everything there is about WW to be honest.

While the outcome may be the same, it just feels that the story will have to move pretty quickly to meet the outcome, and that may make the Others a bit underwhelming. 

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, Muffin King said:

While the outcome may be the same, it just feels that the story will have to move pretty quickly to meet the outcome, and that may make the Others a bit underwhelming. 

If we know anything, it is that George takes his time. I don't think we will have a full-blown war against the Others all across Westeros, I never thought that will happen, so it comes to what people expect as well.

Edited by BadWo1f

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I believe that the wall will fall and the white walkers will make it at least to Kings landing. However I do wonder how George will pull that off without rushing it, but if anyone can it's him.

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7 minutes ago, TPTWP Timett said:

I believe that the wall will fall and the white walkers will make it at least to Kings landing. However I do wonder how George will pull that off without rushing it, but if anyone can it's him.

That is why I believe WW won't reach that far, to me it looks as if battle will take place somewhere above the Neck, Winterfell probably. Of course, he could pull of a war further down Westeros, I just don't think that is how it will happen. In either cases, I doubt it will disappoint.

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3 minutes ago, BadWo1f said:

That is why I believe WW won't reach that far, to me it looks as if battle will take place somewhere above the Neck, Winterfell probably. Of course, he could pull of a war further down Westeros, I just don't think that is how it will happen. In either cases, I doubt it will disappoint.

I don't believe that they will lose in battle I think Bran brings them down somehow. I will admit that I really want to see them smash some people who doubt there existence. Plus some others besides Northman will get a chance to fight them. Either way I agree that it won't disappoint.

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If dragon fire can kill the Others like regular fire can kill wights then maybe. Daenerys and any other dragon riders can just snipe them all with a bird's-eye view. 

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9 hours ago, Muffin King said:

It feels surreal that the 5 books built up the others as the true enemy, yet everyone except for the Wildlings  and Night's Watch don't even know they exist. Is anyone else afraid that they are going to be suppressed way too quickly without even actually making an impact on Westeros?


The opposite: they're going to win.

Or at least, at the end of A Dream of Spring they will have control over Westeros. We'll be led to believe that prophecy may in fulfillment regarding the savior(s) but we won't actually see the victory. This isn't a story about the defeat of the Others, it's a story about the birth of the savior(s).

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13 hours ago, Muffin King said:

It feels surreal that the 5 books built up the others as the true enemy, yet everyone except for the Wildlings  and Night's Watch don't even know they exist. Is anyone else afraid that they are going to be suppressed way too quickly without even actually making an impact on Westeros?

They will probably show up at the end of winds. That leaves a whole book of fighting ice demons 

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I think a possible way for them to become a threat to the rest of Westeros would be for them to start raising corpses in the south.  I think that once the wall comes down they may be able to reach further south, and even if they have to be in relative proximity winter blizzards and their ability to effect the weather should allow small groups to pass further south undetected.  I don't believe that the others themselves have great numbers, rather they rely on raising the dead to fight, and what better recruiting ground than the riverlands in the aftermath of the war.

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I honestly hope they don't but George has yet to make them seem as menacing as the human antagonist in the series. I know there is no Melkor or sauron revealed yet to be leading them, but so far for me they have disappointed. Hopefully the next two books change that for me. I hope the Lion of the Night did create them would be nice to have more Gods other than Rahlor being shown to do something. 

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16 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:


The opposite: they're going to win.

Or at least, at the end of A Dream of Spring they will have control over Westeros. We'll be led to believe that prophecy may in fulfillment regarding the savior(s) but we won't actually see the victory. This isn't a story about the defeat of the Others, it's a story about the birth of the savior(s).

That is wow... Very possible now when you say it. Even the name, A Dream of Spring fits.

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It's always felt like the Others and the dead were the real threat facing humanity, and that the various wars for the iron throne were distractions. They represent the foibles of men, and bring about our downfall. I always assumed that at some point in the series that would all flip as the various leaders (whoever is left) realized their terrible mistakes in burning Westeros to the ground fighting each other when an actual apocalyptic force was bearing down on them. Here we are five books later and I'm no longer convinced that will ever happen. Perhaps our heroes will fight and die, saving humanity from certain doom, without anyone ever really recognizing them for their sacrifices. Maybe the Walder Freys and Littlefingers of the world will still be playing their game when the epilogue arrives.  That could be bittersweet, as the George promised us our ending would be. It feels like a pretty pessimistic statement on the nature of mankind, but then given the amount of complaining George must hear on a daily basis over books undelivered.... Yea that might make me feel pretty negative as well.

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I sort off want them to disappoint. I love this world and don't like the idea of it ending suddenly, by being destroyed or changing completely. I rather see evolution, not revolution. And therefore I don't want to see the Others succeed too much. 

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I think they'll make it as far as the Trident, if Dany's HOTU visions can be believed. That's pretty far south. 

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11 hours ago, BadWo1f said:

That is wow... Very possible now when you say it. Even the name, A Dream of Spring fits.

Realistically there's no other way for it to end. The precedent they've set up for the Long Night was a winter that lasted for a generation, a night that lasted years. The death star gets bigger every time, not smaller: a storyteller can't introduce a threat lesser then what's been faced before. This Long Night has to be longer and darker, and there's not enough pages left to get us there in two books; we'd need a whole new cast of characters to develop after a ~20 (time varies a bit depending on your definition of "generation")

It's what leads me to conclude we're reading the wrong story, that this isn't the story of humanity beating the Others.

It's also why the birth of Rhaego was obscured so thoroughly: if the story is about the birth of the saviors, then their birth is the conclusion of the story, so how does an author reconcile 1/3 of the conclusion to their story coming in act 1? He hides it, obscures it, and by the time the reader sees him again his mother will have "borne a living child"... which means we don't get him back until the REST of the conclusion is already happening.

So you see?

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The Others will have a great part in The Winds of Winter and probably in A Dream of Spring. I really think they will take the Wall down by blowing the Horn of Winter.

Different from the show, because the show is currently being badly written. I can't wait to get my hands on WoW.

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16 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Realistically there's no other way for it to end. The precedent they've set up for the Long Night was a winter that lasted for a generation, a night that lasted years. The death star gets bigger every time, not smaller: a storyteller can't introduce a threat lesser then what's been faced before. This Long Night has to be longer and darker, and there's not enough pages left to get us there in two books; we'd need a whole new cast of characters to develop after a ~20 (time varies a bit depending on your definition of "generation")

It's what leads me to conclude we're reading the wrong story, that this isn't the story of humanity beating the Others.

It's also why the birth of Rhaego was obscured so thoroughly: if the story is about the birth of the saviors, then their birth is the conclusion of the story, so how does an author reconcile 1/3 of the conclusion to their story coming in act 1? He hides it, obscures it, and by the time the reader sees him again his mother will have "borne a living child"... which means we don't get him back until the REST of the conclusion is already happening.

So you see?

Yea. I mean, after so much stories, build up and everything, even the name "LONG Night"... This has to last, I agree, we won't see the end of White Walkers.

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