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Why don't they burn bodies in the North?


Jojen Dayne-Reed

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3 hours ago, Aline de Gavrillac said:

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Quoting this is annoying. You somehow perpetually bolded the first line. I can't quote you without the first line being bolded. I am vexed. Terribly, terribly vexed. 

The North is abundant with trees. Jon notes how the trees north of the wall have crept ever closer after years of neglecting to cut it. There's no reason why anybody should use their wood sparingly. 

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Two word: the Wall.

As long as the Wall stands, they don't need to burn their dead. But you'll notice that the Starks had a back-up plan of putting swords in the hands of the statues of their lords to keep them from rising. Might have worked if someone had remembered to check the swords for rust and replace the very old ones. Those Kings of Winter will make awfully fierce wights.

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On 4-8-2017 at 8:23 PM, Springwatch said:

Extreme preservation, yes; independence, not so much - probably something like Orrell after Varamyr took his eagle; or Hodor being warged by Bran.

Could be, I kind of dislike the idea of wights being warned though.. It would make it too similar to the other magics in my opinion. 

We don't know yet if it's possible to warg multiple creatures at the same time either. We know Bran kinda zones out when he wargs Summer or Honor, but we've seen Arya warg a cat and punch the kindly man with a stick simultaneously, so we know you can warg, and still use your body. We also know from Arya's chapters that you can warg, and lead a group of other animals with your warged animal...

We also know you can 'have' multiple animals, like Varamyr, but whether you can warg all of them simultaneously, or whether you have to pick one at a time (as a sort of leader), and then switch when necessary is unclear. I think the animals stay with their 'master' mostly due to the bond they have, for most of the time, rather than that they're constantly warged.

I like to think the wights follow the wishes/interests of the Others due to some sort of bond, combined with their own grudges and vengefulness, rather than being controlled. 

On 4-8-2017 at 8:23 PM, Springwatch said:

The spirit must be alive in there, e.g. to preserve the memory of Mormont's quarters; but there can't be too much independence or they'd all be going after private vendettas instead of forming armies of the slain. The default position does seem to be to murder the nearest living person though.

Potential example: Jaime's touching account of 'going away inside' reminds me of Hodor hiding from Bran. We also get a picture of Jaime bleached out into black and white (moonlight, Whispering Wood). Maybe then, Jaime will give us a first-hand demonstration of what it's like to be a wight.

I think our opinions aren't that far apart. I also think they do follow some sort of orders/common interest from/with the Others, but due to a bond rather than being warged, or controlled.

Perhaps I'm a bit too philosophical about this, but I see many of the living characters as quite similar to wights.

If we take Arya for example; she's been feeling like she's dead inside for quite a while, so on an emotional level, she has sort of died. She's lost much of her sweetness and happiness, and feels dead inside. On top of that she has become rather cold, murderous and vengeful. Not on the level of UnCat, but not that far off either. 

She has not literally died and frozen however, and has not been revived by a cold mist, and has therefore not bonded with the Others,  so she has been following her own interests, rather than joining a 'greater' cause. We even see her trying to join a cause in the HoBW (and I think with the Hound as well), but she fails, and can't stick to the rules, imo because she can't 'bond' with the cause. 

Most of the living characters go through one or more symbolic/emotional deaths and rebirths, after which they often find a new purpose, and bond with some group and cause. 

Jaime is a great example of this (and one of the few positive 'rebirths ')

Plot twist: Jaime has been warged by Cersei, until his hand was cut off... 

On 4-8-2017 at 11:14 PM, 40 Thousand Skeletons said:

I doubt it. The wights (the blue-eyed ones) are probably manipulated via telekinesis, or "teke" as GRRM calls it. We have explicit examples of headless/brainless wights like the bear that killed Thoren Smallwood, and there are examples of even individual limbs that continue moving around, like UnOthor's arm when he fights Jon. And these wights are notoriously clumsy and slow. Contrast that to Beric and Coldhands, who appear fully conscious, can talk, and are still fully physically coordinated so they can fight with a sword. Beric and Coldhands are definitely dead (in medical terms), but it seems that some form of energy other than oxygen is animating them, and their own consciousness is still in control.

You have a good point there. I think Coldhands could be warged by Bloodraven. If the theories that the wall works as a barrier against warning, rather than Others, or any kind of creature, are true, this would explain why Coldhands can't pass through the wall. He'd just drop dead halfway through or turn into a normal wight... It would also explain why he can talk, and doesn't have blue eyes.

This would be entirely different to Beric, who isn't controlled by anyone... Unless Beric and UnCat are warged by BR as well... Although he shouldn't be able to warg through the wall...

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22 hours ago, Manderly's Rat Cook said:

You have a good point there. I think Coldhands could be warged by Bloodraven. If the theories that the wall works as a barrier against warning, rather than Others, or any kind of creature, are true, this would explain why Coldhands can't pass through the wall. He'd just drop dead halfway through or turn into a normal wight... It would also explain why he can talk, and doesn't have blue eyes.

This would be entirely different to Beric, who isn't controlled by anyone... Unless Beric and UnCat are warged by BR as well... Although he shouldn't be able to warg through the wall...

A good thought, but I highly doubt this as well. Coldhands speaks with the ravens every night, and I assume this would be unnecessary if both Coldhands and the ravens were being controlled by BR/the weirnet. from ADWD Bran I:

Quote

From a nearby oak a raven quorked, and Bran heard the sound of wings as another of the big black birds flapped down to land beside it. By day only half a dozen ravens stayed with them, flitting from tree to tree or riding on the antlers of the elk. The rest of the murder flew ahead or lingered behind. But when the sun sank low they would return, descending from the sky on night-black wings until every branch of every tree was thick with them for yards around. Some would fly to the ranger and mutter at him, and it seemed to Bran that he understood their quorks and squawks. They are his eyes and ears. They scout for him, and whisper to him of dangers ahead and behind.

I also think it may be the case that the weirnet "bypasses" the Wall (for warging), specifically because of the wights Jafer and Othor. In the GRRM story And Seven Times Never Kill Man, the glowing yellow eyes of the Jaenshi represent an active connection to their pyramids (which are similar to weirwoods). When some of the pyramids are destroyed, the eyes of the Jaenshi no longer glow brightly, and they behave very differently. They behave like humans instead of like COTF; they eat and have sex constantly instead of living in balance with nature. And at one point, we get to see in real time a Jaenshi who had lost her connection to the pyramids getting her connection back. And this coincides with her eyes lighting back up: 

Quote

Next to neKrol, the bitter speaker suddenly cried out. He looked over with alarm, and saw her eyes flash a brilliant yellow-gold. “The god!” she muttered softly. “The light returns to me!”

Anyways, the point is that as far as we know, the eyes of Jafer and Othor stayed blue when they were brought through the Wall. At least, I assume that Jon would have mentioned it if their eyes temporarily changed back to normal. This means that while it is possible the Wall blocks other wargs/skinchangers, it doesn't seem to have any effect on whoever turned Jafer and Othor into wights. Personally I think Bloodraven/the weirnet is responsible for that whole episode and the attack on LC Mormont, and so it would make sense if the weirnet, which may be connected underneath the Wall, is able to bypass the Wall entirely.

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