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Jon and Dany and hair color


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29 minutes ago, WeKnowNothing said:

I mean like northeners are known to look more rough - for example either being more muscled, built, handsome in a hard way, and not at all how Jon is described. Jon (even on the show) stands out from the northeners. He's a lot more 'pretty' in a way that catches  your attention. Genetically speaking, he couldn't have got his prettiness from Lyanna, as Starks are not pretty, but more handsome in a 'manly' way. So him being pretty is definitely a Targearyen trait, as even Targearyen males are known to be pretty. 

Now, your right about Jon having dark grey eyes. But it is very heavily speculated that Jon received his eye colour from both his parents. Lyanna likely only had normal grey eyes, which were not dark. Rhaeagar had dark indigo eyes, which almost looked black - and Jon has dark grey eyes, which almost look black. So Jon has a mixture of dark indigo and grey eyes = dark grey eyes (which almost look black like Rhaegar's). And if you take the thing about fAegons eyes as being real, that eye colour can change according to hair - then we really have to wonder what would happen if Jon dyes his hair a lighter colour...would a shade of purple be seen in his eyes, just like fAegons?

I can't disaggree about northeners nor agree since i dont have any particular evidence-passages to prove any of these.. I dont want to discuss about the TV appearances because ofc they wouldnt take an ugly man for a protagonist.. Kit is "pretty", but you can say Robb was rough (but you can still say me that Robb look more like a Tully). Were all the Targaryens pretty? I don't think so.. But they were special, unique, they were Valyrians.. Targaryens were known to be georgeous.. so you might be right.

But wouldn't someone notice that this dark grey is dark purple?
Potatoes+Roasted Chicken != Roasted Potatoes
Did i mention in this thread anthing about Aegon?(i answered many threads so i am not sure).
Maybe if he loose all his precious hair we see his purple eyes...

I don't doubt that Jon is the son of Rhaegar.
And i also think that Aegon is fAegon, because of the Slayer of Lies passage in the House of the Undying...

 

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5 hours ago, WeKnowNothing said:

I mean like northeners are known to look more rough - for example either being more muscled, built, handsome in a hard way, and not at all how Jon is described. Jon (even on the show) stands out from the northeners. He's a lot more 'pretty' in a way that catches  your attention. Genetically speaking, he couldn't have got his prettiness from Lyanna, as Starks are not pretty, but more handsome in a 'manly' way. So him being pretty is definitely a Targearyen trait, as even Targearyen males are known to be pretty. 

Now, your right about Jon having dark grey eyes. But it is very heavily speculated that Jon received his eye colour from both his parents. Lyanna likely only had normal grey eyes, which were not dark. Rhaeagar had dark indigo eyes, which almost looked black - and Jon has dark grey eyes, which almost look black. So Jon has a mixture of dark indigo and grey eyes = dark grey eyes (which almost look black like Rhaegar's). And if you take the thing about fAegons eyes as being real, that eye colour can change according to hair - then we really have to wonder what would happen if Jon dyes his hair a lighter colour...would a shade of purple be seen in his eyes, just like fAegons?

Isn't Jon described as looking like Ned (in the face)? That's one reason Cat resents him, IIRC; he looks more Stark-like than any of her trueborn sons.

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On 8/4/2017 at 3:25 PM, Lady Jayne Playne said:

Watching The Mother of Dragons and  The King in the North meet made me realize that if Jon is a Targaryen then why doesn't he have silver hair.  Lady Olenna commented on her near marriage to a silver haired Targaryen, Dany and her weirdo bro had silver hair and given the fact that all Robert Baratheon's offspring had dark hair it made me wonder if Jon Snow's paternity trail has deliberately led us astray.  What am I missing?

Season 1 has the perfect explanation to this.  The reason why Ned realizes that Cersei's offsprings are born out of incest is because the record of previous offsprings between Baratheons and other families always yielded a child with dark hair.  The same is probably true for a Stark and Targaryen offspring.  As for Dany, Raeghar, and Viserys, well they were born to two Targaryen parents, not one. 

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On 2017. 08. 05. at 0:25 AM, Lady Jayne Playne said:

Watching The Mother of Dragons and  The King in the North meet made me realize that if Jon is a Targaryen then why doesn't he have silver hair.  Lady Olenna commented on her near marriage to a silver haired Targaryen, Dany and her weirdo bro had silver hair and given the fact that all Robert Baratheon's offspring had dark hair it made me wonder if Jon Snow's paternity trail has deliberately led us astray.  What am I missing?

The fact that dark hair is a dominant trait. 

If one parent has dark hair and the other blond hair, it's more likely for the child to have dark hair as well. 

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On 8/6/2017 at 8:18 AM, The Special Pug of Belfast said:

Great thread!!

Why? It was always obvious that Targeryn features are recessive and the reason they marry brother to sister is to preserve those features

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9 hours ago, Banjo said:

Why? It was always obvious that Targeryn features are recessive and the reason they marry brother to sister is to preserve those features

We have to get to the bottom of this somehow.

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Are they always recessive? I wonder. Aegon V's wife was called Black Betha Blackwood for her black hair and dark eyes. Yet, it seems only one of their sons had black hair (not sure about the two daughters). So what happened there? In GRRM's universe dark hair seems to always trump blonde hair. 

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On 9/8/2017 at 10:47 AM, anjulibai said:

Are they always recessive? I wonder. Aegon V's wife was called Black Betha Blackwood for her black hair and dark eyes. Yet, it seems only one of their sons had black hair (not sure about the two daughters). So what happened there? In GRRM's universe dark hair seems to always trump blonde hair. 

I dont think its always.. But we have seen Targaryen children with more brunette characteristics.. Rhaenyra's children with the Strong guy

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On 8/9/2017 at 3:47 AM, anjulibai said:

Are they always recessive? I wonder. Aegon V's wife was called Black Betha Blackwood for her black hair and dark eyes. Yet, it seems only one of their sons had black hair (not sure about the two daughters). So what happened there? In GRRM's universe dark hair seems to always trump blonde hair. 

Aerys and Rhaella were siblings so their kids got all those recessive traits.  White/silver hair, violet eyes, and otherworldly looks. 

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On 6-8-2017 at 3:02 PM, WeKnowNothing said:

They don't dye any of the male actors hair - Tyrion in the books has white hair, and Peter Dinklage on the show has red/brown hair. Jaime has very golden blonde hair, yet Nickolaj Waldou on the show has light brown/sandy hair. Daario has blue dyed hair, yet his actor has brown hair on the show. Even Bran and Rickon have aurburn hair, but their actors have brown hair on the show. It doesn't mean anything that Show Jon has black hair - they can just change Show Lyanna's hair to being black to.

Peter Dinklage's hair was dyed blonde in the first season(s). Jon Snow's hair is almost black in the show, it's dyed to be a few shades darker. Kit Harington's hair is a slightly lighter shade of brown in real life. Also the difference between head hair and beard is very noticeable at times. 

Joe Dempsie's (Gendry) hair is definitely died black. Aiden Gillen's Peter Baelisg hair also seems dyed for the show. Bronn's hair seems to be colored in the latter seasons as well. 

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Because he has the same hair colour as his mother, brown, or dark brown. If Jon had a sister, she might be blonde.

On 8/6/2017 at 6:52 PM, Morgana Lannister said:

.Now, Lyanna is played by two different actresses.  The first one (riding the horse) definitely has highlights as well certainly towards the ends, then again if she has been out in the sun, darker hair gets lighter.  The second one (giving birth) has definitely darker hair.  Overall, I am going to go for the decision in each case being mainly best on what suits the actor/actress and even their own preferences whilst trying to keep some looks from the books quite in tune with the books like Dany and Viserys.

I also noticed this..... I have no complaints since that could be the reason and, after all, she only appears in one scene, and well, maybe her natural hair colour darkened when she grew up, but the first time I thought, her hair doesn't look like Jon's....and the father is supposed to have silver hair so there is a problem ?

But then we also have Bran and Arya with brown hair and Ned had light brown hair while Cat was a redhead....

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On 8/8/2017 at 7:41 PM, RhaenysB said:

The fact that dark hair is a dominant trait. 

If one parent has dark hair and the other blond hair, it's more likely for the child to have dark hair as well. 

Tottally agreed, and now saying in any way that you are ignoring this but, say, if I got dark hair, say, (for argument sake) and my husband too but we both have grandparents or something with blonde hair, chances are one in our 4 children or so may have blonde hair...

The children can take out of way back in the family and if two recessive genes meet, then you got it, so possibly Robert could have had a blonde child with Cersei that was his (Robert;s) for most families have blonde and dark hair somewhere lol but hey, I guess it served the plot!

lol just found that on wiki (I know not 100% trustworthy) lol but as a ginger who tints her hair a bit in old age here it comes:

Red hair is not actually a recessive gene (like blonde is), but is rather an "incomplete dominant." In the world of genes, there are dominant genes, which take over any recessive gene (brown, black), recessive genes (blonde), which will be taken over by any dominant gene, or incomplete dominent genes (red).

;)

 

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5 hours ago, Meera of Tarth said:

Because he has the same hair colour as his mother, brown, or dark brown. If Jon had a sister, she might be blonde.

I also noticed this..... I have no complaints since that could be the reason and, after all, she only appears in one scene, and well, maybe her natural hair colour darkened when she grew up, but the first time I thought, her hair doesn't look like Jon's....and the father is supposed to have silver hair so there is a problem ?

But then we also have Bran and Arya with brown hair and Ned had light brown hair while Cat was a redhead....

Brown hair in various shades is possibly the most common; Cat is okay to be ginger (which is a mutation by the way) because she is a Tully; Sansa has the ginger hair but in the books most of the kids... Now brown with blonde or whatever is much more common than ginger but I think ginger (should know that lol, I am one although with help from bottle in my old age lol) may be dominant....

 

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15 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

One parent had dark hair and dark eyes

one parent had light hair and purple eyes

he took after the darker parent

I mean hey this is a fantasy overall but yes Jon could genetically make sense!  lol I do and my mother was Spanish and I am ginger lol :) (okay these days with help from the hairdressers but originally lol)

 

 

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5 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Tottally agreed, and now saying in any way that you are ignoring this but, say, if I got dark hair, say, (for argument sake) and my husband too but we both have grandparents or something with blonde hair, chances are one in our 4 children or so may have blonde hair...

The children can take out of way back in the family and if two recessive genes meet, then you got it, so possibly Robert could have had a blonde child with Cersei that was his (Robert;s) for most families have blonde and dark hair somewhere lol but hey, I guess it served the plot!

lol just found that on wiki (I know not 100% trustworthy) lol but as a ginger who tints her hair a bit in old age here it comes:

Red hair is not actually a recessive gene (like blonde is), but is rather an "incomplete dominant." In the world of genes, there are dominant genes, which take over any recessive gene (brown, black), recessive genes (blonde), which will be taken over by any dominant gene, or incomplete dominent genes (red).

;)

 

Yes, we know it's not easy as black+blonde=black and blonde+blonde=blonde. But for the sake of the story the books do a whole lot of simplification in the use of genetics, otherwise there'd be no chance for poor medieval Ned Stark to identify Joffrey as a Lannister bastard. 

So since this is fiction and not biology class it comes down to lyanna's dark hair+Rhaegar's blond hair = Jon's dark hair. :dunno: 

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1 hour ago, RhaenysB said:

Yes, we know it's not easy as black+blonde=black and blonde+blonde=blonde. But for the sake of the story the books do a whole lot of simplification in the use of genetics, otherwise there'd be no chance for poor medieval Ned Stark to identify Joffrey as a Lannister bastard

So since this is fiction and not biology class it comes down to lyanna's dark hair+Rhaegar's blond hair = Jon's dark hair. :dunno: 

Actually, it was an assumption that Cersei's children are not Roberts (since all Roberts bastards had his looks, Gendry is actually almost a copy and Mya as well), but this assumption just happened to be the truth (Cersei has confirmed that at least for readers). Let's not forget the other evidence - Bran's fall and the dagger (presumably, Lannister's). Otherwise, there was no chance for Ned to discover the truth.

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