Noble House Scenario - Crownlands

[James Steller]

Imagine that you are the head of a noble house in the Crownlands (assume it's been around for as long as the others). Your father was killed when his ship was caught in a storm in the Blackwater Bay, leaving you as the head of the household at 18. Your surviving family includes your mother (Kersey), your 16- year old sister (Mariel) 17 year old brother (Godwyn), and your 10-year old illegitimate half-brother (Feldo). An offer has come from House Boggs to squire Feldo to Lord Boggs' second son, a hedge knight named Ser Conor. This is part of an offer to marry Lord Boggs' heir, Ser Franz, to your sister, Mariel.

Feldo was brought to your household by your father, following the death of his mother due to plague. He is a good-hearted child who dreams of being a knight, but melancholy in the wake of his father's death. Your mother and siblings resent him greatly, as he not only most resembles your father, but he is a constant reminder that your father betrayed your mother. Mariel and Godwyn both urge him to be sent away to either the Citadel or the Wall.

Mariel, meanwhile, was betrothed to Lord Amhar Staunton's only son and heir since she was 12, but he was accidentally reared by his horse and broke his neck. Lord Staunton now offers to marry Mariel himself to produce another son. However, he is fully three times older than she, and was once meant to be her father-in-law, and your mother is disgusted by both these facts. In the wake of Mariel's failed betrothal, the young Lord Reynard Pyne has ridden to your hold to court her. He is a dashing young man, whose uncle is currently a revered member of the Kingsguard, but he is also a poor man with few lands to his name. Much to your shock, however, while hunting, you discover Mariel in a secret tryst with Ser Issa Lleyn, a promising young knight who squired for your father. She defiantly declares that she loves Ser Issa, and they will flee across the Narrow Sea if you try to engage her to anyone else.

As if that's not enough, Godwyn is causing trouble. Newly knighted, he is a hot-tempered brawler with no interest in any form of education which isn't related to war. Your father had been in negotiation to betrothe him to some noble lady, but his attitude and lack of proper etiquette have caused several lords to refuse. However, a couple of offers are still on the table. Ser Jekyl Farring, the uncle to Lord Farring, will marry Godwyn to his only daughter, though he will remain at your home (where you worry he will continue to loaf and shirk responsibilities). The elderly Lord Rymer Massey will take Godwyn on as a member of his household guards if he may marry Kersey.

Kersey is in a state of depression following the death of your father, and has withdrawn from all public life, living only for her children. She does not dispute your right to rule, but refuses to wed again. As the new head of your house, you could make an arrangement for her anyway, and there would be little that she could actually do about it.

How do you run this household?

Note to administrators: This is purely a hypothetical scenario, not a game. It's meant to illicit thought and discussion rather than awarding a win or loss.

[Canon Claude]

Godwyn and Mariel seem like bigger problems to my house than Feldo. I'll keep Feldo close by and squire him to one of my trusted knights. Bastard or not, he's my half brother.

As for Mariel, I tell her she's free to go east with her lover, but she will never be permitted to return home. If that doesn't deter her, I'll even escort her out with a small amount of gold to keep her alive for a short amount of time. After that, she's on her own.

I don't want Godwyn around. He's more trouble than he's worth. I wait for him to commit the next offence, and if it's serious enough, I'll send him to the Wall in chains.

My mother will always be welcome here, and I won't force her to marry anyone. She can go with Mariel, or she can stay and help Godwyn figure his shit out. I'll look after her. But I won't have her antagonizing Feldo. He didn't ask to be born and he isn't to blame for what happened.

[TMIFairy]

SI/modern sensibilities version:

- pretty much what what Canon Claude wrote. Although I would make the Night's Watch one of Goldwyn's options. All of which involve leaving home.

A more IMO Westeros approach:

1 - marry Mum to Lord Rymer Massey, thus getting rid of Goldwyn - but depending on how obnoxious I find Goldwyn (thus making his options The Wall, Second Sons Sellsword Company, etc.) I might offer Feldo as a replacement for him, hopefully obtaining a squireship for the boy.

2 - kill Ser Issa for despoiling my sister and hope that Lord Bogg will accept "damaged goods" - marrying Ser Franz is the best match of those listed. She marries a man of age to her and will be the Lady Bogg's. And resolves the "Feldo question" too. Lord Staunton also might be a good match - hopefully he will breed my sister and die on her, making her Dowager Lady Staunton and Regent for her child(ren)

 

[Canon Claude]

3 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

SI/modern sensibilities version:

- pretty much what what Canon Claude wrote. Although I would make the Night's Watch one of Goldwyn's options. All of which involve leaving home.

A more IMO Westeros approach:

1 - marry Mum to Lord Rymer Massey, thus getting rid of Goldwyn - but depending on how obnoxious I find Goldwyn (thus making his options The Wall, Second Sons Sellsword Company, etc.) I might offer Feldo as a replacement for him, hopefully obtaining a squireship for the boy.

2 - kill Ser Issa for despoiling my sister and hope that Lord Bogg will accept "damaged goods" - marrying Ser Franz is the best match of those listed. She marries a man of age to her and will be the Lady Bogg's. And resolves the "Feldo question" too. Lord Staunton also might be a good match - hopefully he will breed my sister and die on her, making her Dowager Lady Staunton and Regent for her child(ren)

 

To be fair, I was thinking practically. And in Westeros, no young lord would take damaged goods, and who knows what Mariel will do to further dishonour the house. Might as well cut losses and let her go.

[TMIFairy]

11 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

To be fair, I was thinking practically. And in Westeros, no young lord would take damaged goods, and who knows what Mariel will do to further dishonour the house. Might as well cut losses and let her go.

Barbrey Ryswell married William Dustin. No info on him being "old" and he hanged out with Eddard Stark and other "young bucks".

No news on said Barbrey, Lysa Tully or Delena Florent causing further scandals ...  okey, I admit that Lysa murdered her husband and possibly had a bastard (there are theories that Sweet Robin was Petyr's) but she was discrete

I suppose her chances for the Bogg match depend on discretion, spin on causes of Ser Issa's death. Her behaviour after she marries is an unknown, of course, she could become the Amerei of the East.

Just having fun with the OP

[Floki of the Ironborn]

Nice! These are back!

Okay. This looks like a real mess. But I need to show that I am capable of keeping order, and capable of holding my own as the lord of my folk without being seen as a monster. This will require a balancing act.

First of all, Feldo is dangerous to my family's stability, but he's a good boy. So I'll pay for his education at the Citadel, and I'll make sure he's treated well. He can be a maester somewhere and make a positive difference in the world.

As for my own blood, I'll need their loyalty, given how young I am still. I assume that I had a good relationship with my brother and sister, even if they are acting out and behaving badly. I could let them walk all over me or I could drive them away. So I'll split the difference thusly:

Mariel marries Ser Issa. If any nobles are angered by this, I'll simply declare that there was a pregnancy scare, which prompted me to act immediately. If she does end up pregnant, then I was right, if not, I was simply mistaken but oops, too late.

With Godwyn, I would argue that he is just acting out in the wake of our father's death but he's apparently driven off marriage proposals for years. So I take him hunting one day and tell him in no uncertain terms that he has three options: he can marry the Farring girl and toe the line here, he can take the next ship to Essos and become a sellsword, or he can go to the Wall. I'll arrange for any option he chooses, and if he continues to defy me and disrupt order, he'll find himself the victim of an accident.

Finally, my mother is not forced to marry anyone else. She will be given all the comforts of life which she deserves.

In the meantime, I find myself a wife and start having kids. Kind of strange that I haven't already been betrothed at this point, but whatever. I guess Dad figured I'd do right by myself, haha.

[TMIFairy]

Good point about the Main Character oddly not being betrothed.

[Canon Claude]

6 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

Good point about the Main Character oddly not being betrothed.

It happens. Look at Glbart Glover.

[TMIFairy]

3 hours ago, Canon Claude said:

It happens. Look at Glbart Glover.

Indeed.

Top of mind list of heirs to Northern Houses without a betrothed in sight when introduced to us:

- Dacy Mormont

- Wylla Manderly

- Herman (?) Karstark

- Smalljon Umber

- the Cerwyn boy

- the eldest R. Ryswell boy - Roger?

- Jojen Reed

[James Steller]

5 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

Indeed.

Top of mind list of heirs to Northern Houses without a betrothed in sight when introduced to us:

- Dacy Mormont

- Wylla Manderly

- Herman (?) Karstark

- Smalljon Umber

- the Cerwyn boy

- the eldest R. Ryswell boy - Roger?

- Jojen Reed

Exactly. I thought I would shake things up for once by taking attention away from your own engagements.

[Sambo Shaw]

I enjoy these. This is a good one, but I see a definite path through.

While I don't think the enmity towards Feldo is a major hurdle to my house, it does offer a chance to win points with my mother and siblings. I tell them I have decided to find him a place outside of our home. The offer to squire for Ser Conor is a good one. This leads to Mariel. 

As head of my house, I will not have terms dictated to me by my sister (there's no way I'm allowing Ser Issa to marry her.) There is no need to make this a confrontation and possibly drive her to run away. I tell Mariel I have no intention of driving her away from Issa. Ser Issa will have an "accident" or "illness" and die within a month or two. Mariel is then betrothed to Franz Boggs, and Feldo has a knight to serve and train under. Mariel should stay loyal to me and her house and I've gained a good ally in House Boggs.

I don't see any huge benefit in forcing my mother to marry, so I won't. She will stay and serve as Lady of the house until I marry. Perhaps she can even help with my real problem; my brother.

I would consider marrying him to the Farring girl, but probably wouldn't (in case Godwyn has to be sent away.)

I keep him in my service. If nothing else, he sounds like a kamikaze fighter. This could be useful. However, if his attitude and work ethic are more problem than they are worth, I send him to the Wall. My mother and sister shouldn't be too hurt by this decision, considering how things have played out so far.

 

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On ‎8‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 10:01 PM, James Steller said:

Imagine that you are the head of a noble house in the Crownlands (assume it's been around for as long as the others). Your father was killed when his ship was caught in a storm in the Blackwater Bay, leaving you as the head of the household at 18. Your surviving family includes your mother (Kersey), your 16- year old sister (Mariel) 17 year old brother (Godwyn), and your 10-year old illegitimate half-brother (Feldo). An offer has come from House Boggs to squire Feldo to Lord Boggs' second son, a hedge knight named Ser Conor. This is part of an offer to marry Lord Boggs' heir, Ser Franz, to your sister, Mariel.

Feldo was brought to your household by your father, following the death of his mother due to plague. He is a good-hearted child who dreams of being a knight, but melancholy in the wake of his father's death. Your mother and siblings resent him greatly, as he not only most resembles your father, but he is a constant reminder that your father betrayed your mother. Mariel and Godwyn both urge him to be sent away to either the Citadel or the Wall.

Mariel, meanwhile, was betrothed to Lord Amhar Staunton's only son and heir since she was 12, but he was accidentally reared by his horse and broke his neck. Lord Staunton now offers to marry Mariel himself to produce another son. However, he is fully three times older than she, and was once meant to be her father-in-law, and your mother is disgusted by both these facts. In the wake of Mariel's failed betrothal, the young Lord Reynard Pyne has ridden to your hold to court her. He is a dashing young man, whose uncle is currently a revered member of the Kingsguard, but he is also a poor man with few lands to his name. Much to your shock, however, while hunting, you discover Mariel in a secret tryst with Ser Issa Lleyn, a promising young knight who squired for your father. She defiantly declares that she loves Ser Issa, and they will flee across the Narrow Sea if you try to engage her to anyone else.

As if that's not enough, Godwyn is causing trouble. Newly knighted, he is a hot-tempered brawler with no interest in any form of education which isn't related to war. Your father had been in negotiation to betrothe him to some noble lady, but his attitude and lack of proper etiquette have caused several lords to refuse. However, a couple of offers are still on the table. Ser Jekyl Farring, the uncle to Lord Farring, will marry Godwyn to his only daughter, though he will remain at your home (where you worry he will continue to loaf and shirk responsibilities). The elderly Lord Rymer Massey will take Godwyn on as a member of his household guards if he may marry Kersey.

Kersey is in a state of depression following the death of your father, and has withdrawn from all public life, living only for her children. She does not dispute your right to rule, but refuses to wed again. As the new head of your house, you could make an arrangement for her anyway, and there would be little that she could actually do about it.

How do you run this household?

Note to administrators: This is purely a hypothetical scenario, not a game. It's meant to illicit thought and discussion rather than awarding a win or loss.

THE FISH ROTS FROM THE HEAD

First I would find myself a good woman to bear me some heirs , maybe the daughter of  ser Jekyl

Second ; I would Give  Godwyn a bag of gold and fill his head with tales of adventures in Essos ,sometimes people must learn the hard way .

Third ser Issa ,unless he is my buddy , for despoiling my sister gets either the Wall or the axe .

Fourth ; Unless she can find a better prospect , Mariel will either marry lord Reynard Pyne or lord Boggs ' son Franz or join the Silent Sisters or become a septa .

Fifth Feldo will either go to the citadel or squire for ser Conor .

Sixth ;Kersey can live for my children too .

 

[TMIFairy]

I feel that we don't know enough about Ser Issa. As he squired for the Protagonist's father, they should know one another well. Unless the Protagonist had been fostered away - or sent to squire away - they must had grown up together.

The Protagonist could take the IMO "common view" - of Ser Issa being a an honorless cad lusting after his Lord's daughter. So he gets gelded/the axe/a Black Uniform. Sister gets a whipping and is told to do her Duty to the House.

Or - something poster Brandon Greystark has mentioned - the Protagonist and Ser Issa could be BFF like Ned and Robert. In which case - after giving Ser Issa a beating - he allows them to marry.

I have been turned around as to Mum. Keeping her around is a great boon - she is the experienced manager of the household (which numbers in the hundreds) and she would train the Protagonist's wife - when he has one - in such duties. It is so easy to forget that the Lady of the Castle had a full time job!

Baby Brother is a liability ...

Bastard Brother - can be played out in so many ways ...

[devilish]

-    Ser Issa Lleyn is kicked out of my lands. No one dares playing around my sister without my permission. 
-    Lord Reynard Pyne marries Mariel but only if he’s able to arrange for Feldo to become a member of the KG. Else she marries Lord Staunton
-    Give mummy a choice. Either she marries Lord Rymer Massey or else Godywn ends up to the wall. I am pretty sure she would make the right decision.
 

[John Doe]

I accept Lord Bogg's marriage proposal and send my bastard brother with him, he is part of my family and he deserves better than to be shipped off to the Wall or the Citadel. Once he is old enough to decide for himself, or should he be a problem, I can still arrange for that. And honestly, he seems like the most promising family member between my useless brother, my depressed mother and my illusional sister. 

So, Mariel will be marrid to Lord Bogg's son, but she could have it worse, at least it's not the old guy. I won't have her married to a landless knight, however.

I will marry Lord Farring's daughter myself (assuming there are no better options around, as they aren't mentioned). I want an heir who isn't my uneducated brother or a bastard as quickly as possible.

My mother should be married to Lord Rymer eventually, but I'd give her some time to consider and some time to grief for my father. I don't want to force her, but the opportunity of getting rid of my brother and making an alliance with the Massey's is too good to pass up on. She'll still have my brother around, so that should make her feel slightly better. 

[Lord Giggles]

Right. Well first thing’s first, the mess of my sister’s betrothal to the son of Lord Staunton. I can’t afford to alienate one of my neighbours at this early stage but I also can’t afford to throw my sister away by marrying her to such an old man given how useful she might be for forging other alliances. Therefore, I explain to Lord Staunton that the deal he made with my father was for Mariel to marry his son. However, I then say that while a marriage between him and my sister isn’t viable, our alliance can still be cemented with marriage if he would be willing to marry my mother rather than my sister. Now obviously this is unlikely to succeed if my mother is past childbearing age but in the Medieval period it wasn’t at all unusual for a lady to be only in her 30s or early 40s when she was widowed, so there’s still a chance that Lord Staunton could have another son with my mother. When persuading my mother to go through with this match, I will first try diplomacy by presenting it as the only way I could find to both protect Mariel from a marriage to an old man and maintain our House’s political situation, hoping that my mother’s love of her children will persuade her to go through with it. If she still doesn’t agree, then I’ll take the harsher route and play the head of the household card, forcing her to go through with it.

 

My sister’s affair with Ser Issa is not something I can tolerate as, if it becomes public knowledge, then her reputation will be ruined, as will her marriage prospects, depriving me of a bargaining chip to use in future negotiations. So, I offer Ser Issa a choice. He will either take the black voluntarily or when he falls asleep, he won’t be waking up again. As to my sister, she clearly can’t be trusted to her own devices so she will be under effective house arrest for the foreseeable future, watched over by a Septa to ensure that she doesn’t have any more unsuitable relationships and make sure there’s moon tea ready in case Ser Issa left her pregnant.

 

My brother may be a problem, but for the minute he’s also my heir so I can’t get rid of him just yet meaning I need to make the most of him. As my heir, he needs to be married so that he can have children and further our family line and so I agree to the match between him and the Farring girl. Regarding his education, if he’s refused to learn anything other than war up until the age of 17, then it’s too late to be starting him on anything else. So, to try and make the best of his temper and warlike personality, I encourage his martial interests and establish that he answers to me, not the other way round, in the hope that once I’ve sired children of my own, he can be my mailed fist.

 

Feldo is more of a problem. He’s more easily controlled than Godwyn but he’s also a bastard and unpopular with the rest of my family. However, my mother should be married off to Lord Staunton and my sister isn’t a free agent anymore, meaning that Godwyn is the only one to worry about and I can use Feldo as a tool to control Godwyn. If I keep Feldo around, then there’s always the chance that I’ll legitimize him and make Godwyn take the black, effectively abdicating in favour of Feldo, should Godwyn step too far out of line. As for Feldo himself, I’ll keep him close and educate him as a knight and lord, ready to step up as my heir or mailed fist should I be forced to make Godwyn take the black. If Feldo proves skilled enough then try and get him into the Kingsguard. If not then he can be a member, possibly the Captain eventually, of my guard, staying a bastard and so safely out of the line of succession.

 

For myself, I’ll immediately start looking for a wife, perhaps a female member of House Pyne should one be available. While House Pyne doesn’t have much land, one of its members is part of the Kingsguard and that carries a certain amount of prestige which will rub off on me if I marry one of its members that would be foolish to throw away. That and I need an heir other than my brother as soon as possible.

[1000th Lord Commander]

I marry my sister off to Ser Franz, and Feldo can go be a squire as well. They won't nessacarily interact in this way, so it should keep Feldo away from our sister. Ser Issa will be quietly killed.

Godwyn will be charged with the murder of Ser Issa, and allowed exile to Essos or the Wall. Either way, out of my hair.

My mother can join the silent sisters or go be a septa. Her children will be scattered, so she won't have a lot to live for.

Look for a wife quickly. I need a heir.

[I Remain Unvanquished]

On 8/4/2017 at 9:01 PM, James Steller said:

Imagine that you are the head of a noble house in the Crownlands (assume it's been around for as long as the others). Your father was killed when his ship was caught in a storm in the Blackwater Bay, leaving you as the head of the household at 18. Your surviving family includes your mother (Kersey), your 16- year old sister (Mariel) 17 year old brother (Godwyn), and your 10-year old illegitimate half-brother (Feldo). An offer has come from House Boggs to squire Feldo to Lord Boggs' second son, a hedge knight named Ser Conor. This is part of an offer to marry Lord Boggs' heir, Ser Franz, to your sister, Mariel.

Feldo was brought to your household by your father, following the death of his mother due to plague. He is a good-hearted child who dreams of being a knight, but melancholy in the wake of his father's death. Your mother and siblings resent him greatly, as he not only most resembles your father, but he is a constant reminder that your father betrayed your mother. Mariel and Godwyn both urge him to be sent away to either the Citadel or the Wall.

Mariel, meanwhile, was betrothed to Lord Amhar Staunton's only son and heir since she was 12, but he was accidentally reared by his horse and broke his neck. Lord Staunton now offers to marry Mariel himself to produce another son. However, he is fully three times older than she, and was once meant to be her father-in-law, and your mother is disgusted by both these facts. In the wake of Mariel's failed betrothal, the young Lord Reynard Pyne has ridden to your hold to court her. He is a dashing young man, whose uncle is currently a revered member of the Kingsguard, but he is also a poor man with few lands to his name. Much to your shock, however, while hunting, you discover Mariel in a secret tryst with Ser Issa Lleyn, a promising young knight who squired for your father. She defiantly declares that she loves Ser Issa, and they will flee across the Narrow Sea if you try to engage her to anyone else.

As if that's not enough, Godwyn is causing trouble. Newly knighted, he is a hot-tempered brawler with no interest in any form of education which isn't related to war. Your father had been in negotiation to betrothe him to some noble lady, but his attitude and lack of proper etiquette have caused several lords to refuse. However, a couple of offers are still on the table. Ser Jekyl Farring, the uncle to Lord Farring, will marry Godwyn to his only daughter, though he will remain at your home (where you worry he will continue to loaf and shirk responsibilities). The elderly Lord Rymer Massey will take Godwyn on as a member of his household guards if he may marry Kersey.

Kersey is in a state of depression following the death of your father, and has withdrawn from all public life, living only for her children. She does not dispute your right to rule, but refuses to wed again. As the new head of your house, you could make an arrangement for her anyway, and there would be little that she could actually do about it.

How do you run this household?

Note to administrators: This is purely a hypothetical scenario, not a game. It's meant to illicit thought and discussion rather than awarding a win or loss.

I send Ser Issa on a one way trip to the wall and have some moon tea slipped to Mariel. Mariel is then betrothed to Lord Pyne with the stipulation that he takes Feldo as a squire. This will reduce the tension between my mother and Feldo while putting Feldo in a postilion to possibly be made Kingsguard one day. 

I tell Godwyn that he can stay home and run my household guard, or he can leave and make his way in the world on his own, but if he dosen't shape up he will be joining Ser Issa at the wall. If he stays and shapes up I'll have him marry Ser Jekyl's daughter. 

I tell Lord Massey that my mother is still grieving my father's death and I don't believe it would be wise to force her to remarry at this time. My mother can continue to run the household and be one of my advisors. 

I, meanwhile, start looking for a wife of my own. If at all possible I don't want to leave my household to Godwyn. 

[Universal Sword Donor]

Let the bastard squire, let the mother sulk, marry off the sister, send the brother into exile.

Then burn everything down and start over