Orphalesion Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 8 hours ago, YOVMO said: I'll own that the jon and arya is a little fanfic which is why I wouldn't call it a theory but just say it gives a smile to my face. The larger picture that the plans of man all fail in the end is what I enjoy the most as well as the idea of the end of the final book bringing in the beginning of a hypothetical first book long before the Children ala Joyce's Finnegan's Wake which, as I noted earlier, is something which grrm admits directly influences him. Still stark kids living on as Wolves and frolicking through the forest is nothing short of ridiculous. Quote The Iron Throne is a thorne in westeros. Since its creation is has brought nothing but injustice and devastation. I would love to see it shattered. So the Iron Thorne being shattered isn't about "Gritty and Realistic" it's about YOUR wishfullfilment. Okay then. The Iron Throne united 8 warring nations and keeps the Iron Born under the heel they need to keep them from raping and enslaving everybody else. Quote As for the real world people ending up on a throne of a country that previously had fallen to civil war, I guess you are right. After all Rome still rules the world, or the Romanov throne...that's still good, and the Qing throne, the Egyptian's, the mongols, the Macedonians. Henry Tudor, the Glorious Revolution, Napoleon, the Bourbon Restoration, the various times the an Egyptian dynasty DID restore the Two Kingdoms, the reunification of China after the warring states period the Meji Restoration... the Beginning of the Romanov Dynasty. I never said it always happens, only that it has frequently happened in history. Now list the occurrences where people ended up being trapped inside animals. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damon_Tor Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 10 hours ago, YOVMO said: The Iron Throne is a thorne in westeros. Since its creation is has brought nothing but injustice and devastation. The violence in Westeros was reduced significantly by Aegon's Conquest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the trees have eyes Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 18 hours ago, YOVMO said: I can understand your trepidation with my everyone dies (or, more accurately, is killed....doom of valyria 2.0). That said, I obviously like my idea. Either way, I have no inside info nor the talent that grrm has so I am hopeful to see whatever it is. You will need to make some kind of sense of the faceless men though. That they are just a normal group of assassin monks is way beyond the scope. I do't think you and I will ever resolve our issues, but I hope George does. YOur fear about he may never finish is a well founded one and I do tend to agree. Even if he got WOW out today, took no breaks and got ADOS out in the 5 year time frame we have come to expect he would be 73. Obviously he isn't getting it out today. If he got it out on 1/2019 when he was 70 and spend a year relaxing...I mean, all men are mortal and we are cutting things awfully close. Thanks for the link and interesting chat. While we don't see eye to eye, it is always a fun way to while the day IDK about the faceless men. Valyria was sitting on a the Westeros equivalent of the pacific ring of fire, or at least a series of active volcanos with a destructive potential to put Krakatoa or Santorini to shame. And the big one struck. This being a world of fantasy and magic there is most likely more than mother nature at work here. Ditto the Broken Arm of Dorne and the Neck - unless the hammer of the waters is merely an attempt to explain rising sea levels in a more dramatic way or one that the less scientific Westerosi could imagine. But The Others and the Long Night seem to be a predominantly Westerosi phenomenon, there being no Wall or Night's Watch in Essos, so the link between former Valyrian slaves and Braavos and the impending War for the Dawn seems unclear to me. How old is Braavos / the Doom of Valyria and doesn't the original Long Night predate it? The Faceless Men certainly don't appear as actors in any of the stories about the Long Night and The Last Hero. We have our own versions foretelling the end of the world whether Revelations, Ragnorok or Nostradamus's predictions (update every few years for the next reinterpretation) though admittedly we don't have a cult that actively seeks death. The Faceless Men look like a band of magical assassins who seek death, even worshipping it in a way, but I think GRRM is influenced here by the actual assassins, a medieval sect that specialised in assassinating their enemies' leaders and where the name is derived from. This being ASOIAF a dollop of magic is added for drama and colourful visualization. TBF my doubts about GRRM finishing stretch back even a little bit further. There was one scene in the show which I mustn't mention that GRRM liked and said that he was impressed by the actor/actress [changed to obfuscate character as much as possible!] and that this had given him ideas that he might do something more with that person in the books. That an author was being influenced on what to include in his work by a tv adaptation of that work struck me as pretty depressing and a huge red flag about the state of the unpublished / unwritten story. Likewise. It's good to hear different opinions, even if we lean in different directions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Mormont Posted September 14, 2017 Share Posted September 14, 2017 On 9/12/2017 at 1:54 PM, White Ravens said: I know you are just making a joke but what is it with readers resenting the descriptions of food? For me, they are a part of the rich world building that GRRM has done and they help to create an immersive experience. I don't want to take anything away from the way George writes, I agree, he does a magnificent job transporting you into the world he has created, but the question was how could he get it all into 2 books, and that is a legit way and reason. There probably won't be as many feasts now that Winter is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragons Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 I heard that it MIGHT BE eight book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Dragons Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 On 12/09/2017 at 1:31 AM, Davos the Dragonslayer said: It should be more than 2 books if Doran's bastard travels to Sothoryos in TWOW. I think you meant Oberyn's bastards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yourwetdream Aeryn Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 22 minutes ago, Sophia [email protected] said: I think you meant Oberyn's bastards No. It was joke abot Quentyn's pointless journey to Essos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YOVMO Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 On 9/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, the trees have eyes said: IDK about the faceless men. Well, to be fair we are all really just guessing. I am not going to war with my readings...whether I believe them or not...only spitballing as best I can and reading others. On 9/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, the trees have eyes said: Valyria was sitting on a the Westeros equivalent of the pacific ring of fire, or at least a series of active volcanos with a destructive potential to put Krakatoa or Santorini to shame. And the big one struck. This being a world of fantasy and magic there is most likely more than mother nature at work here. Ditto the Broken Arm of Dorne and the Neck - unless the hammer of the waters is merely an attempt to explain rising sea levels in a more dramatic way or one that the less scientific Westerosi could imagine. But The Others and the Long Night seem to be a predominantly Westerosi phenomenon, there being no Wall or Night's Watch in Essos, so the link between former Valyrian slaves and Braavos and the impending War for the Dawn seems unclear to me. How old is Braavos / the Doom of Valyria and doesn't the original Long Night predate it? The long night, yes. The doom...no. On 9/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, the trees have eyes said: The Faceless Men certainly don't appear as actors in any of the stories about the Long Night and The Last Hero. This isn't so much what I think is going on. I feel that the FM have figured out a way to use the long night and all that comes with it as a weapon. In the several hundred years that they have been trying to put an end to humanity this seems like a really good one and done solution. On 9/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, the trees have eyes said: We have our own versions foretelling the end of the world whether Revelations, Ragnorok or Nostradamus's predictions (update every few years for the next reinterpretation) though admittedly we don't have a cult that actively seeks death. The Faceless Men look like a band of magical assassins who seek death, Sure..magical assassins...but keep in mind that they aren't merely assasins. There is a religious connotation to it. For them, killing outside the confines of the mandate is stealing a life....I guess the part that really has me hung up here is motto Valar Morghulis. That this sounds like a pithy, deep existential kind of thing that cool assassins say to each other and as such gets glanced over by the reader that there is a really serious mission statement that All Men MUST die just strikes me as fitting very well. On 9/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, the trees have eyes said: even worshipping it in a way, but I think GRRM is influenced here by the actual assassins, a medieval sect that specialised in assassinating their enemies' leaders and where the name is derived from. This being ASOIAF a dollop of magic is added for drama and colourful visualization. Again, there is no way to demonstratively argue against this, but that there is room enough to ask a question seems telling to me. The meeting of the secret servants, things like Varys being noted as sleeping on a concrete slab (like FM) despite that by all outward appearances he is surely a man for feathered beds and silken sheets and he has some cock and bull story about his back, the work that went into getting arya, a powerful telepath, to and through training, that JH as looking for the book the death of dragons at the citadel.....I am not a raving lunatic and in no way want to scream this is the way it is and no other explanation is possible, but that the faceless men have a much larger roll to play in our story, that this roll has to do with dragons, that they believe that death is a gift and that they have a beef with Targaryens dating back to before the doom.....it all points to something...something I do not know what as they say. The ice and fire lines are drawn very clearly. Targs, Dragons, R'Holler, Fire Magic on one side and The Others, the Wizards in the house of the undying, The Great Other and, the FM who are begun as a cult after years of being tortured by Valyrian fire maic and dragons. I really think that packed into the chapter of the meeting with the sercret servers where arya is describing the attendees is something very important and, to my best ability, this is the guess that makes the most sense to me. On 9/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, the trees have eyes said: TBF my doubts about GRRM finishing stretch back even a little bit further. There was one scene in the show which I mustn't mention that GRRM liked and said that he was impressed by the actor/actress [changed to obfuscate character as much as possible!] and that this had given him ideas that he might do something more with that person in the books. That an author was being influenced on what to include in his work by a tv adaptation of that work struck me as pretty depressing and a huge red flag about the state of the unpublished / unwritten story. Red Flag indeed On 9/14/2017 at 7:33 AM, the trees have eyes said: Likewise. It's good to hear different opinions, even if we lean in different directions. Same! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcotron Posted September 22, 2017 Share Posted September 22, 2017 5 hours ago, YOVMO said: The ice and fire lines are drawn very clearly. Targs, Dragons, R'Holler, Fire Magic on one side and The Others, the Wizards in the house of the undying, The Great Other and, the FM who are begun as a cult after years of being tortured by Valyrian fire maic and dragons. GRRM is definitely inviting us to view things that way. But I'm not sure that isn't a bit of misdirection. Because that's exactly Melisandre's worldview, and how often is she right? I don't think it really comes down to two sides at all. The succession war didn't come down to two sides. Not everyone who was anti-Joffrey was pro-Renly. So, why should we expect everyone who's anti-Other to be pro-dragon? None of the five kings were able to make common cause with each other, and that's why the Lannisters still hold the throne. Meanwhile, remember how the first Long Night ended. Yes, there was a Battle for the Dawn where the Night's Watch defeated the Others and sent them fleeing into the frozen north—but before that, and taking up most of the legend, it's about the First Men's last hero going on a quest to find the Children and ask for their help, even though humans and Children were enemies. The Rhoynish legend even has their hero go to the frozen base of the river to get the gods to top squabbling and sing a song together. If the different factions who are anti-Other can't make common cause, the Others will end up holding the throne. (And if this sounds like a campaign ad for Emmanuel Macron, I apologize.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMIFairy Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 On 8.09.2017 at 9:29 PM, falcotron said: GRRM will finish in two books. Most of TWOW is the same kind of long travelogues and in-depth political machinations as the last two books, but the epilogue introduces a minor Northern character named Nelson. A recon mission to scout out the dead runs aground on Skagos, and he's the only survivor. But he discovers a strange bottle rolling along the coast. He removes the stopper, smoke pours forth, and a voice speaks to him in a foreign language. Thank you for giving me a good chuckle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.