Varys predicted death....

[Samwell_Tarly]

Rewatching the scene between Melisandre and Varys and how she says he will die. This has got me thinking mainly why he is going to die...? 

My only plausible theory is based upon betrayal which will lead to his death. What does he want? What motives him?. He has quoted numerous times ''he serves the realm'', therefore doing what is necessary to keep peace among Westeros. 

Ultimately I think varys will be a spider tangled in his own web. In a nut shell he will be caught betraying Daenerys. Intially I didnt believe that there was a spy in Daenerys council but the only two people who I think potentially could betray Daenerys will be Missandei or Varys. With Varys death been predicted I think its only plausible it will be him to betray and therefore killed.

I was going to write a whole load of information based upon this but i'm interested into what people think and why......

 

[Ashes Of Westeros]

8 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Ultimately I think varys will be a spider tangled in his own web.

It seems to me that Varys doesn't have his web anymore since he left KL. If it was good ol' Varys  Dany's allies would have never been ambushed, Cresei's plans would have been known to Dany etc. Therefore he's useless now.

[snow is the man]

Why do you think there will be a spy on the council? and why would missandei be on that list?

[Jordan La Cabra]

I would say the absence of Young Griff from the show has as good as made Varys redundant. At the moment, he isn't advising Daenerys, he's just walking around behind her. He doesn't seem to be plotting anything, either. A great character being ruined, just like Littlefinger is at Winterfell.

[Samwell_Tarly]

6 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

It seems to me that Varys doesn't have his web anymore since he left KL.

I just dont see how, he managed to master mind an assassination  across two continents and keep an eye on Daenerys where abouts at all times from Kings Landing. I understand that he may have taken a slight hit but this is what he does best as he says.  

6 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

If it was good ol' Varys  Dany's allies would have never been ambushed, Cresei's plans would have been known to Dany etc. Therefore he's useless now.

So your saying Varys is fully loyal to Daenerys. 

2 hours ago, snow is the man said:

Why do you think there will be a spy on the council?

This I cant really answer right now. The thing that is bugging me is I dont know and cant figure out why Varys would be spying on Daenerys but there is much reason to believe he his. I am a firm believer that his ultimate goal is to sit on the Iron Throne and serve the people himself, but betraying Daenerys in favour of Cersei, how will this achieve his goal.......

2 hours ago, snow is the man said:

and why would missandei be on that list?

I think Missandei could be on this list is for a few reasons,I dont think for one minute she is ploughing Cersei/Euron with lots of information as this makes no sense, but she could potentially betray Cersei because of Greyworm. 

• Presented as Daenerys most trusted advisor - somewhat like Jorah
• There has been some emphasis on missandei being told to not betray me from Daenerys

Missandei potential betrayal could go something along the lines of, Greyworm is trapped and needs Daenerys help and be saved, Daenerys either refuses or he dies fighting for her. Just to give you an idea.

[Samwell_Tarly]

27 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I would say the absence of Young Griff from the show has as good as made Varys redundant. At the moment, he isn't advising Daenerys, he's just walking around behind her. He doesn't seem to be plotting anything, either. A great character being ruined, just like Littlefinger is at Winterfell.

I totally agree in many parts with you. Little finger is a dead man walking and has been for some time. Lord Varys on the other hand was one and if not the best schemer in Westeros/Essos. I think he hasnt been credited enough unlike Petyr Baelish as with Baelish we have seen and heard first hand what he has done. With Varys his work seem to have motive aimed looking after the realm and the people in it and his scheming seems to be less obvious. With Varys quick descend from all this greatness it seems to me there are two options D&D are that stupid and forgotten how great a player he was and just made him stupid. Or he hasnt actually lost his brain and is just with holding information and supplying information to Cersei.

[Jordan La Cabra]

2 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I totally agree in many parts with you. Little finger is a dead man walking and has been for some time. Lord Varys on the other hand was one and if not the best schemer in Westeros/Essos. I think he hasnt been credited enough unlike Petyr Baelish as with Baelish we have seen and heard first hand what he has done. With Varys his work seem to have motive aimed looking after the realm and the people in it and his scheming seems to be less obvious. With Varys quick descend from all this greatness it seems to me there are two options D&D are that stupid and forgotten how great a player he was and just made him stupid. Or he hasnt actually lost his brain and is just with holding information and supplying information to Cersei.

But Varys' idea in the show of looking after the realm was by seemingly trying to get Viserys to the Iron Throne, and knowing what kind of person Viserys was, it doesn't seem like making him king would have been 'good for the realm'. Robert wasn't the best king, but he was a hell of a lot better than Aerys and the same for Viserys if he ever did get that far.

Only now has he been left with Daenerys and the exchanges between the two of them have been strange and often infrequent. She doesn't seem to trust him and he doesn't seem to trust her. It would be a huge anti-climax if he had been bluffing Tyrion the whole time about Daenerys and is actually supplying Cersei with information, because again, that would be Varys helping a terrible ruler who is in no way, shape or form, ruling 'for the good of the realm'.

[Samwell_Tarly]

7 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

But Varys' idea in the show of looking after the realm was by seemingly trying to get Viserys to the Iron Throne, and knowing what kind of person Viserys was, it doesn't seem like making him king would have been 'good for the realm'. Robert wasn't the best king, but he was a hell of a lot better than Aerys and the same for Viserys if he ever did get that far.

Agreed Viserys would have made a terrible ruler, but was he just using him?? 

7 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Only now has he been left with Daenerys and the exchanges between the two of them have been strange and often infrequent. She doesn't seem to trust him and he doesn't seem to trust her. It would be a huge anti-climax if he had been bluffing Tyrion the whole time about Daenerys and is actually supplying Cersei with information, because again, that would be Varys helping a terrible ruler who is in no way, shape or form, ruling 'for the good of the realm'.

Daenerys has every right not to trust him and to be quite frank never should, he has show his in loyalty to the realm and his lack of loyalty to the reigning monarch, conspiring against Robert to put Viserys on the Iron Throne. The problem I cannot fathom is why would be feeding information back to Cersei, that would further him towards his goal, which I believe to be the Iron Throne.

I have a boat load of information regarding what Varys wants, what hes doing and why, but more recently, what I can answer is why he is feeding information to Cersei. 

[Jordan La Cabra]

1 minute ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Agreed Viserys would have made a terrible ruler, but was he just using him?? 

Daenerys has every right not to trust him and to be quite frank never should, he has show his in loyalty to the realm and his lack of loyalty to the reigning monarch, conspiring against Robert to put Viserys on the Iron Throne. The problem I cannot fathom is why would be feeding information back to Cersei, that would further him towards his goal, which I believe to be the Iron Throne.

I have a boat load of information regarding what Varys wants, what hes doing and why, but more recently, what I can answer is why he is feeding information to Cersei. 

I've always been of the belief - from the book representation of Varys - that he is a character that is a schemer and wants to shape the realm to his own will, but he doesn't want the Iron Throne for himself. He had been helping to shape Young Griff to be leader, providing him with all the necessary attributes and education to be the perfect ruler for the realm.

In the show, though, he has had no influence on the shaping and nurturing of Daenerys or of Cersei or of any other candidate, so we no longer know what he wants other than something 'for the good of the realm', which is highly ambiguous. Varys and Littlefinger have always been like two sides of the same coin, to me. They both want the realm to shaped to their wants, but what makes them different is that I always got the impression Littlefinger would want it for himself yet Varys genuinely wanted it for the good of the people.

At the moment, we have no idea what Varys wants and what he is doing other than being a tag along at Dragonstone. Which is shame, because he has so much potential as a character.

[Samwell_Tarly]

1 minute ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I've always been of the belief - from the book representation of Varys - that he is a character that is a schemer and wants to shape the realm to his own will, but he doesn't want the Iron Throne for himself. He had been helping to shape Young Griff to be leader, providing him with all the necessary attributes and education to be the perfect ruler for the realm.

Sorry but pointless quoting book references to someone who hasnt read the books, it serves no purpose to his show character as Griff does not exist in the show.

1 minute ago, JordanJH1993 said:

In the show, though, he has had no influence on the shaping and nurturing of Daenerys or of Cersei or of any other candidate, so we no longer know what he wants other than something 'for the good of the realm', which is highly ambiguous. Varys and Littlefinger have always been like two sides of the same coin, to me. They both want the realm to shaped to their wants, but what makes them different is that I always got the impression Littlefinger would want it for himself yet Varys genuinely wanted it for the good of the people.

At the moment, we have no idea what Varys wants and what he is doing other than being a tag along at Dragonstone. Which is shame, because he has so much potential as a character.

Well I think its time I go into alot more detail regarding this.

Unlike little finger, Varys in a schemer in the back ground with him always saying ''he wants to serve the realm'' What is ultimately the best way to do that but by sitting on the Iron Throne. There are lots examples of his goal of wanting the Iron Throne throughout out the show

• Ned Stark - when he visited Ned before his execution he said he served the realm as someone had to
• Little finger - in a conversation between him and LF in the Throne room he proclaims he did certain things for the good of the realm

Next we can really confirm what Varys wants in a conversation between Oberyn and himself, Varys is talking about desire and what it can do to people, he then says ''the absence of desire leaves one to pursue other things'' when asked what he looks at the Iron Throne, for me confirming what he actually wants. Moving into Season 7 we are told Varys will die in Westeros along with Melisandre too, did the death threat from Daenerys about what would happen if Varys did ever betray her foreshadow why and how he will die. Personally again yes.

Here is a list of evidence of his forecast betrayal :-

• Conspired with Illario to protect, support and generally back Viserys to put him on the Iron Throne, this in turn meant he conspired againt Robert Baratheon but still carried out orders to have Daenerys killed. Also planning the Dothraki invasion
• What contradicts putting Visery on the Iron Throne would be what Varys stands for and thats the complete opposite of Viserys, knowing fine well Viserys would make a terrible king and putting him on throne would be stupid, supports the idea he was being used.
• The mole theory in Daenerys Council - all to suspicious that Euron knew exactly where the Greyjoy fleet was even though it was night time and in a massive sea. Was it just pure chance that all the important members were on the same boat too.
• Before the attack on CR, Varys is adminant and says to Daenerys they know they are coming, all provisions are made to empty CR before the invasion too. Cersei knows Daenerys wants the Iron Throne, so I'd predict they would be coming to Kings Landing to do what was needed, not take some worthless ancestral castle. Things get more suspect as Eurons fleet turns up at the exact moment that CR is sacked and destroys all the ships that transported the unsullied, leaving them stranded.
• Again referencing their shear lack of knowledge, Varys doesnt know who Jon snow is??? really?!?! and then Tyrion doesnt know hes king in the north. Pretty much anyone has better informants than Varys now.
• When speaking to Daenerys, Varys aslong as I have eyes I'll use them, that pretty much says hes still got people looking out for him.
• When Tyrion was shipped out from KL to be delivered to Meereen, was it his intentions to go will him from the start.   

Varys says a number of times that Knowledge is what he knows best. He came to the small council to be Master of Whispers under the orders of Aerys 11, as he was so good, and has stayed there for some 20 years and now hes useless??? 

 

 

[SuperMario]

Taking Aegon out of the plot really made Varys irrelevant. The Ds have really nowhere to take Varys, so the only options are to make him a pointless follower or an inconsistent traitor. As others have said, Varys claims to support "the realm". If he switches alliances and follows Cersei, he is being hypocritical to his own words. And if he stays loyal to Dany, he will pretty much just be a backup guy. And he'll be even less relevant as Jon and Dany's camps merge. Now, Dany will trust Jon, Davos, Missandei, Tyrion and others before Varys.

So really, the showrunners made one of the most interesting book characters one of the most pointless show characters.

[A Ghost of Someone]

2 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I would say the absence of Young Griff from the show has as good as made Varys redundant. 

Bingo !

[Jordan La Cabra]

17 minutes ago, SuperMario said:

Taking Aegon out of the plot really made Varys irrelevant. The Ds have really nowhere to take Varys, so the only options are to make him a pointless follower or an inconsistent traitor. As others have said, Varys claims to support "the realm". If he switches alliances and follows Cersei, he is being hypocritical to his own words. And if he stays loyal to Dany, he will pretty much just be a backup guy. And he'll be even less relevant as Jon and Dany's camps merge. Now, Dany will trust Jon, Davos, Missandei, Tyrion and others before Varys.

So really, the showrunners made one of the most interesting book characters one of the most pointless show characters.

100%, my friend.

He has nothing to do now and nothing to plot. Unless he is privately plotting to bring some unknown character to the throne (like in the books with Aegon), he is pretty much useless to the story now. And I highly doubt the showrunners are planning to introduce any new candidates for the throne this late, considering they had the chance to do it with Young Griff and didn't.

All adds up to the worst character progression for one of the greatest characters in the aSoIaF world.

[SuperMario]

23 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

100%, my friend.

He has nothing to do now and nothing to plot. Unless he is privately plotting to bring some unknown character to the throne (like in the books with Aegon), he is pretty much useless to the story now. And I highly doubt the showrunners are planning to introduce any new candidates for the throne this late, considering they had the chance to do it with Young Griff and didn't.

All adds up to the worst character progression for one of the greatest characters in the aSoIaF world.

Yep. Agree completely. And just basing it on how the showrunners treat plot points, I am guessing they are going to have him be traitorous for some dumb reason just so Drogon can roast him alive.

[A Ghost of Someone]

Given that warning speech that Dany gave Varys in Ep 2, and now the preview of him talking to the Imp, they are seemingly setting up Varys execution for Treason and we will maybe be made to ponder if Dany is made like her Dad or not. Just a thought.

[Jordan La Cabra]

1 minute ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

Given that warning speech that Dany gave Varys in Ep 2, and now the preview of him talking to the Imp, they are seemingly setting up Varys execution for Treason and we will maybe be made to ponder if Dany is made like her Dad or not. Just a thought.

I hope you are wrong. What a disappointment it would be if the grand schemer of Westeros was executed before he managed to actually scheme anything. Varys would have gone from a potential player in the game of thrones to a bald red herring.

[A Ghost of Someone]

2 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I hope you are wrong. What a disappointment it would be if the grand schemer of Westeros was executed before he managed to actually scheme anything. Varys would have gone from a potential player in the game of thrones to a bald red herring.

No one lives forever unless you are named Cersei it appears. No but seriously, Varys has no birds anymore and he has switched sides so much much, there is no Aegon and his buddy Illyrio has vanished. What else is there for him to do but switch sides again and or get executed?

[Samwell_Tarly]

28 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

No one lives forever unless you are named Cersei it appears. No but seriously, Varys has no birds anymore and he has switched sides so much much, there is no Aegon and his buddy Illyrio has vanished. What else is there for him to do but switch sides again and or get executed?

I was wondering this the other day, after season 1 thats it. Into thin air he goes much like alot of plot lines

[Lord Varys]

He is going to die heroically either in some battle against the 'army of the dead' or by preventing some sort of attempt on Dany/Jon next season, sacrificing himself to save them. That's what his story is about in the show - doing his best to serve the Realm, and he has made it clear who the Realm is for him.

Chances that this is going to change as very small indeed. How would this work? He'll learn about the true enemy, after all. How on earth is he going to betray Daenerys after that? Why should he?

[Dragonslayer22]

Small chance he is Targaryan. Also always a possibility that he is Arya in a mask. Thoughts?