Lady Fevre Dream

[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

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Greetings all! New Cat on the block!

Ok, while I loved the episode and squealed like a delighted 6 year old when Drogon started burning up Lannisters....I too am bothered by some things. Namely I echo the sentiments shared here about how Bronn should have died (though I've always liked the character). I I also think Jaime got off way too Hollywood easy too. 

The thing that's bothering me most though has to do with the general attitude that Cersi, and those allied to her have toward the notion of facing three Fire-breathing dragons. Everyone is acting just a little too "oh well" about it, and Cersi seems almost non-chalant, like it's merely a problem she can somehow buy or manipulate through. Everyone in Westeros knows the story of Aegon and his sisters. Every learned person must have grown up hearing about the 'Field of Fire.' The impression I have from the books is that most of the more sensible Lords and Leaders of Westeros would go rushing to bend the knee, rather than have a Field of Fire sequel. It would be more believable to me if Cersi started to go crazy from the terror of seeing the 'real prophecy' take further shape, rather than acting all Emperor Palpatine. That scene with her and the Iron Banker made me almost want to shout at the screen; Profitable??? Three effing Dragons just showed up on your doorstep!!! Ugh...that I blame the writers for trying to pump up her threat capability. Instead of trying to build up Cersi, they should have explored the Dragon Horn concept from ADWD. Now that would be a lot more threatening!

Lastly, while it is impressive that the Lannister and Tarly army held their formations at the site of Drogon...again...these are men that would have grown up learning about the Field of Fire. I'd have expected more of them to have broken formation and run at seeing such site. Ok...Rant over for now :-)

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1 hour ago, iprayiam said:

Story-wise the show really died with the back to back deaths of Robb and Joffrey. It is what turned the show from a complex story into a soap opera. It killed the driving narrative momentum and D&D spent the next three years spinning wheels.  People will argue that the story is not about the plot, it's about the characters. But if you'll allow a metaphor, the characters are a face that make an individual interesting and unique, but it still needs to be stretched onto a somewhat standardized skeletal system or it's just a gross pile of skin.

When the Joffrey-Robb plot died, the Stannis story could have been the glue that carried the momentum ball but D&D let that fall apart too. So most of the orbiting plotlines fell into one of three categories:

1. Had no where to go, or no reason to do the things they did- This is where all the character motivation died. (Sansa, Arya, LittleFinger, Direwolves, the Hound, etc, everything, everything, everything in Mereen,)

2. Meaningless Filler. The piddling around of characters who's machinations were inevitably going to amount to nothing by the time they got killed (The Boltons, the Greyjoys, Margery and Lancel, Tywin, Mance Rayder everything Dorne)

3. Stalled out to the point that they became book-ends to the show, not central parts of the story. (White Walkers, Winter in Coming, Bran's tale, Jon Snow's lineage, etc., Dragons vs. Westeros, everything North).

These three things are why we got to where we are now with episodes filled with teleporting armies checking off plotpoints and delivering "moments" for twitter twerps to tweet about that look cool but make no sense in context and totally destroyed character motivations.

All this is largely to do D&D's fundamental misunderstanding of the show (and maybe Martins, I didn't read the books): Just like George Lucas thought Star Wars was the tragedy of Darth Vader just because he was a popular villian, D&D think that the central, sympathetic anti-hero of the show is Cersei and that all plots should either revolve around hers or get out of the way.

Viewed as the Tragedy of Cersei is the stupidest way of approaching the show and yet the only way the plot, pacing, and focus of the story makes any sense.

 

I must disagree a bit, because losing Joffrey and Robb only finished the Lannister-Stark civil war storyline. Which I'll grant was the main driving force to the show. But by Season Four it was clear, whether you liked them or not, the show's main characters were Jon, Dany, and Tyrion. Jon and Dany are along with Carol now monopolizing the show, because they own the two big storylines: the supposed Last Targaryen coming West to reclaim the throne, and the coming war against the White Walkers in the Long Night. 

Both of which were present from the beginning. The White Walker storyline was in fact the first thing the show set up. But then they set up the Lannister-Stark War through the Tragedy of Ned Stark, and for three seasons it was the main storyline. I'm afraid they more or less shot their wad there, I agree. Season Four ended with good action in the Mountain versus Viper scene and the Battle of the Wall. But I could sense the show was dragging its feet. 

Tyrion's story fell by the wayside after he killed his father and headed towards Easteros. But Jon and Dany, despite the people portraying them having no facial expressions, could've carried the show. It was a giant mistake to kill Jon, and of course the Mereen plot was a distraction. But it's astounding how much of Seasons Five and Six, or the Quagmire Seasons as you might call them, felt like the show was just messing around with me. I wish they never thought of Ramsey Bolton, and that they would've killed Stannis at the Blackwater. I wish there was no King Beyond the Wall, and that Dany would've sailed West after she got her Unsullied. And that she had held onto a bunch of Dothraki, and didn't have to waste a whole half a season being enslaved and winning them over again through the old "I'm impervious to fire" trick.

I suppose one other unifying factor could've been Littlefinger, if he actually had a plan, instead of making it up as he went after getting the Vale. (Possibly up until Cat was killed. I can't tell if he always planned to kill Joffrey, or if that was spur of the moment.)

 

As for Carol, the show has one justification: Lena Headey is giving the best performance by far at the moment. They might as well ride that horse, rather than handing the meaty stuff to the Clarkes and Harringtons of the world. 

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3 minutes ago, darmody said:

I must disagree a bit, because losing Joffrey and Robb only finished the Lannister-Stark civil war storyline. Which I'll grant was the main driving force to the show. But by Season Four it was clear, whether you liked them or not, the show's main characters were Jon, Dany, and Tyrion. Jon and Dany are along with Carol now monopolizing the show, because they own the two big storylines: the supposed Last Targaryen coming West to reclaim the throne, and the coming war against the White Walkers in the Long Night. 

Both of which were present from the beginning. The White Walker storyline was in fact the first thing the show set up. But then they set up the Lannister-Stark War through the Tragedy of Ned Stark, and for three seasons it was the main storyline. I'm afraid they more or less shot their wad there, I agree. Season Four ended with good action in the Mountain versus Viper scene and the Battle of the Wall. But I could sense the show was dragging its feet. 

Tyrion's story fell by the wayside after he killed his father and headed towards Easteros. But Jon and Dany, despite the people portraying them having no facial expressions, could've carried the show. It was a giant mistake to kill Jon, and of course the Mereen plot was a distraction. But it's astounding how much of Seasons Five and Six, or the Quagmire Seasons as you might call them, felt like the show was just messing around with me. I wish they never thought of Ramsey Bolton, and that they would've killed Stannis at the Blackwater. I wish there was no King Beyond the Wall, and that Dany would've sailed West after she got her Unsullied. And that she had held onto a bunch of Dothraki, and didn't have to waste a whole half a season being enslaved and winning them over again through the old "I'm impervious to fire" trick.

I suppose one other unifying factor could've been Littlefinger, if he actually had a plan, instead of making it up as he went after getting the Vale. (Possibly up until Cat was killed. I can't tell if he always planned to kill Joffrey, or if that was spur of the moment.)

 

As for Carol, the show has one justification: Lena Headey is giving the best performance by far at the moment. They might as well ride that horse, rather than handing the meaty stuff to the Clarkes and Harringtons of the world. 

I believe LF was merely acting as an agent of Olenna when Joffrey was poisoned.  In fact, I don't think he had any direct incolvement, just knowledge of it.  I think he let on that he was more involved to endear himself to Sansa.

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Posted (edited)

Yes I do believe there is blame to go around. D&D may have proven to be unfit for the task but the task they signed up for wasn't the task they were left with due to GRRM's tardiness in writing his books.

But even with that, they could have done better than they did.  They could have hired more quality writers to help them put together a storyline that if not good, is at least coherent.  I'm not even asking for briliance, just a semblence of cause and effect and consistence in character motivations. 

It's not their fault that GOT isn't the quality it was in the early seasons, that is understandable, but it's entirely their fault that it has completely fallen into the hot mess that it is now.

 

 

 

Edited by The Scabbard Of the Morning

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15 minutes ago, darmody said:

I must disagree a bit, because losing Joffrey and Robb only finished the Lannister-Stark civil war storyline. Which I'll grant was the main driving force to the show. But by Season Four it was clear, whether you liked them or not, the show's main characters were Jon, Dany, and Tyrion. Jon and Dany are along with Carol now monopolizing the show, because they own the two big storylines: the supposed Last Targaryen coming West to reclaim the throne, and the coming war against the White Walkers in the Long Night. 

Both of which were present from the beginning. The White Walker storyline was in fact the first thing the show set up. But then they set up the Lannister-Stark War through the Tragedy of Ned Stark, and for three seasons it was the main storyline. I'm afraid they more or less shot their wad there, I agree. Season Four ended with good action in the Mountain versus Viper scene and the Battle of the Wall. But I could sense the show was dragging its feet. 

Tyrion's story fell by the wayside after he killed his father and headed towards Easteros. But Jon and Dany, despite the people portraying them having no facial expressions, could've carried the show. It was a giant mistake to kill Jon, and of course the Mereen plot was a distraction. But it's astounding how much of Seasons Five and Six, or the Quagmire Seasons as you might call them, felt like the show was just messing around with me. I wish they never thought of Ramsey Bolton, and that they would've killed Stannis at the Blackwater. I wish there was no King Beyond the Wall, and that Dany would've sailed West after she got her Unsullied. And that she had held onto a bunch of Dothraki, and didn't have to waste a whole half a season being enslaved and winning them over again through the old "I'm impervious to fire" trick.

I suppose one other unifying factor could've been Littlefinger, if he actually had a plan, instead of making it up as he went after getting the Vale. (Possibly up until Cat was killed. I can't tell if he always planned to kill Joffrey, or if that was spur of the moment.)

 

As for Carol, the show has one justification: Lena Headey is giving the best performance by far at the moment. They might as well ride that horse, rather than handing the meaty stuff to the Clarkes and Harringtons of the world. 

Seems to me, you just want a completely different show than both GRRM and D&D are producing. You are angry Danny spend four episodes winning the Dothraki? Well, it´s confirmed she will spend atleast half of the WoW doing the same and with a good chance she will not even touch the Westeros until book eight. And the only reason Jon died on the show or Aria went on a training mission to Braavos had been D&D faithfully adapting GRRM´s latest book twists even when they knew he has only very vague idea where those plots should go next.

Is the show now taking a shortcut to the end and killing side characters left and right? Sure. Are most of the once colorfull characters just treading water and waiting for their last hurray? Absolutely. But the main reason is the exact opposite than people here blame D&D for. They are respecting GRRM too much to write their own fanfiction so instead they´re just adapting the only material left. And that´s the end GRRM outlined 20 or so years ago. And yes, ultimately that end is probably very simple and no doubt disappointing for all those hardcore book fans who invested thousand and thousand of hours into analyzing ASOIAF and creating the most crazy theories. 

But that´s the pay GRRM has to pay for being so slow. Whatever he (hopefully) eventually writes will never be as complicated and twisted as some of the theories fans made years ago. He is in the same situation as the Lost writers and that may be the reason why he is stalling and pushing the end further and further away. Truth is, without the side stories he has yet to write or atleast outline, we are just waiting for the last two big battles, the inevitable evil Dragon to even the forces, maybe some twists with few more popular characters dying and the final answer who wil be (if there is any) a new king or queen of Westeros. That´s it.

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Posted (edited)

41 minutes ago, tws1978 said:

Seems to me, you just want a completely different show than both GRRM and D&D are producing. You are angry Danny spend four episodes winning the Dothraki? Well, it´s confirmed she will spend atleast half of the WoW doing the same and with a good chance she will not even touch the Westeros until book eight. And the only reason Jon died on the show or Aria went on a training mission to Braavos had been D&D faithfully adapting GRRM´s latest book twists even when they knew he has only very vague idea where those plots should go next.

Is the show now taking a shortcut to the end and killing side characters left and right? Sure. Are most of the once colorfull characters just treading water and waiting for their last hurray? Absolutely. But the main reason is the exact opposite than people here blame D&D for. They are respecting GRRM too much to write their own fanfiction so instead they´re just adapting the only material left. And that´s the end GRRM outlined 20 or so years ago. And yes, ultimately that end is probably very simple and no doubt disappointing for all those hardcore book fans who invested thousand and thousand of hours into analyzing ASOIAF and creating the most crazy theories. 

But that´s the pay GRRM has to pay for being so slow. Whatever he (hopefully) eventually writes will never be as complicated and twisted as some of the theories fans made years ago. He is in the same situation as the Lost writers and that may be the reason why he is stalling and pushing the end further and further away. Truth is, without the side stories he has yet to write or atleast outline, we are just waiting for the last two big battles, the inevitable evil Dragon to even the forces, maybe some twists with few more popular characters dying and the final answer who wil be (if there is any) a new king or queen of Westeros. That´s it.

It doesn't really matter to me who's to blame. I'm not a book reader and am not privy to George Martin's secret plans, so I wouldn't know. It'd be an awful big coincidence that the show went down the tubes around the same time it ran out of good books to borrow from. (Though there were also problems in Season Four. I go along with the crowd that says D&D were too focused on getting to the Red Wedding, and apparently didn't plan well enough for what to do afterwards.)

The show is going to end with the Dany-Carol and Humanity-White Walker wars. That's just a fact. Given that fact, the show shouldn't have dithered around for two seasons after the War of the Five Kings wrapped. Instead, they should have eased into the events of this season and spread them out over several seasons. That way, you know, they could make sense. 

It's hard to exaggerate how much of a hole Seasons Five and Six put us in. Carol being queen makes no sense--none!--given the Faith Militant storyline. Dany reclaiming Kaleesidom ruined Tyrion as a character, if he wasn't ruined already, by making him an incompetent boob at running Mereen. What was the point of developing Edmure Tully in the storyline where Larry retakes the Riverlands for the Freys if Edmure and the Freys both will disappear? You could have spent that time moving armies back and forth across the continent in the Dany-Carol war.  Then, between battles, you can have mop-up character moments, like the Starks recognizing the fact that Rickon is dead. Or develop characters I feel might pop up again, like Gendry. Or not ruin characters like Bran. 

I'm not one for re-imagining entire ending trajectories in multi-volume sagas. Because in doing so you (or I, at least) never stop questioning things. (What if the Lannister-Stark war continued for the duration? What if the show didn't hate Stannis? What if Jon Snow wasn't an idiot?) I take it for granted we're ending with Dany fighting for control of the continent and everyone fighting the White Walkers. What would make that ending stronger is what I'm after, and the basis upon which I criticize. 

Edited by darmody

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1 hour ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

Yes I do believe there is blame to go around. D&D may have proven to be unfit for the task but the task they signed up for wasn't the task they were left with due to GRRM's tardiness in writing his books.

But even with that, they could have done better than they did.  They could have hired more quality writers to help them put together a storyline that if not good, is at least coherent.  I'm not even asking for briliance, just a semblence of cause and effect and consistence in character motivations. 

It's not their fault that GOT isn't the quality it was in the early seasons, that is understandable, but it's entirely their fault that it has completely fallen into the hot mess that it is now.

I think so too. I think I'd lay most of the blame at Martin's feet because again, there are literally no more books and he's focused on that Wikipedia entry of a Targaryen history book that only 5 hipsters pretend they want more than Winds instead of giving people what they've been waiting for for almost a decade.

But D$D deserve to be dragged to hell and back for their sheer incompetence and how they took something as messy and mediocre as Feast and Dance and magically turned it into even more of a hot mess. I'm not a professional editor or screenwriter, but by god, I can come up on the spot with a dozen ways to make Feast/Dance tolerable. 

D$D should've left after the Red Wedding to do their little slavery-fantasy show or whatever and handed in the reins to someone else. 

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Well, I admit, I loved the World of Ice Fire book. But then I'm a huge nerd. :D 

Yes, in a perfect world, the books would have been completed before the show got that far. But I'm willing to wait for the best possible ending. I know that when Winds emerges, it is going to be picked apart by everyone. Maybe some people will actually feel satisfied. 

As for the show, it's been grossly mismanaged. Only it's been rewarded with ratings and popularity. If it increases books sales, okay then. But I do get slightly irked when I see the book called "Game of Thrones." It's A Game of Thrones, folks. One of many games. (nerdy nitpick has ended, you may return to your regularly scheduled internet.) :ph34r:

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, darmody said:

I must disagree a bit, because losing Joffrey and Robb only finished the Lannister-Stark civil war storyline. Which I'll grant was the main driving force to the show. But by Season Four it was clear, whether you liked them or not, the show's main characters were Jon, Dany, and Tyrion. Jon and Dany are along with Carol now monopolizing the show, because they own the two big storylines: the supposed Last Targaryen coming West to reclaim the throne, and the coming war against the White Walkers in the Long Night. 

Both of which were present from the beginning. The White Walker storyline was in fact the first thing the show set up.

I don't think you're disagreeing with me. I would have been fine with killing Robb and Joffrey if it had lead more or less directly into the "real" story. But instead they paused the momentum for two years and now they are flying through the conclusion with speed and predictability.

Each of the three big stories should have wrapped up as the next was kicking off: War of 5 Kings -> Dany vs Westeros -> white walker apocalypse.

The two years of pouting around did nothing for the momentum of the story unless it's "a character study of the rise and fall and rise again of Cersi while things happen around her".

 

The fact that the walkers were set up in the first scene is exactly why I'm annoyed that they are being relegated to the last part of the last season

How many seasons ago did Stannis "rush" north to meet the threat of the walkers, only to stand around, get distracted, and then die anti-climatically in a side mission without ever even seeing a zombie?

Everything set up as fizzles out into nothing. Everything urgent stalls. Then suddenly an unearned moment dashes the plot to something new, making you wonder what entire plot threads were for. Mereen is the poster child of this.

She spends seasons piddling about and then Theona shows up from a completely different storyline and they're off to Westeros!

 

 

Edited by iprayiam

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I always say, when it comes to adaptions, it's usually better to cut something then adapt it poorly. Things that immediately leap to mind (and boy do they leap) are the Jeyne Poole marriage (seriously, just cut it out and have Stannis vs Ramsey, then Jon vs Ramsey in S6 with Sansa convincing the Vale to go North and help) and, unless it ends up playing a significant part of the story, the Greyscale plot. Oh, and Dorne. Bring a Dornish character to King's Landing or something, but there was no need to go there.

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4 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

I always say, when it comes to adaptions, it's usually better to cut something then adapt it poorly. Things that immediately leap to mind (and boy do they leap) are the Jeyne Poole marriage (seriously, just cut it out and have Stannis vs Ramsey, then Jon vs Ramsey in S6 with Sansa convincing the Vale to go North and help) and, unless it ends up playing a significant part of the story, the Greyscale plot. Oh, and Dorne. Bring a Dornish character to King's Landing or something, but there was no need to go there.

Definitely agree,

 

Even reading the books, it definitely feels as if GRRM start doing a lot of "filler" past book 3.

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Posted (edited)

4 hours ago, darmody said:

Tyrion's story fell by the wayside after he killed his father and headed towards Easteros.

I don't bother at all using the books to explain the show, or to compare or to contrast.  The books are irrelevant to the television series as the plot lines, characters, etc. are given us, and I criticize or analyze according to what is provided us on the screen.  I'm no longer interested in the books because even if the arc gets finished somebody else will do it.

But -- Tyrion's story pretty much fell by the wayside too once he headed for Essos, no matter how many pages he got that were basically plot wheel spinning and went really nowhere before he got Daenerys's attention.  And even after that his contribution was thin.

 

As for:

Quote

Everything set up as fizzles out into nothing. Everything urgent stalls. Then suddenly an unearned moment dashes the plot to something new, making you wonder what entire plot threads were for. Mereen is the poster child of this.

This is how the books functioned too.  I read them all at publication and got more and more frustrated.  I'd hoped, actually, that a televised version of them would be better!  Hope was in vain.  The books and the television versions share the the same problems.  I wish people could recognize this.

Edited by Zorral

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17 minutes ago, Zorral said:

I don't bother at all using the books to explain the show, or to compare or to contrast.  The books are irrelevant to the television series as the plot lines, characters, etc. are given us, and I criticize or analyze according to what is provided us on the screen.  I'm no longer interested in the books because even if the arc gets finished somebody else will do it.

But -- Tyrion's story pretty much fell by the wayside too once he headed for Essos, no matter how many pages he got that were basically plot wheel spinning and went really nowhere before he got Daenerys's attention.  And even after that his contribution was thin.

 

As for:

This is how the books functioned too.  I read them all at publication and got more and more frustrated.  I'd hoped, actually, that a televised version of them would be better!  Hope was in vain.  The books and the television versions share the the same problems.  I wish people could recognize this.

The last part is true. However, the characters in the books have at least remained consistent and so can be rescued once the plot picks up again. Also, the show suffers from many extra problems. Its main one though is that the dialogue is so f***ing atrocious.

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26 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

The last part is true. However, the characters in the books have at least remained consistent and so can be rescued once the plot picks up again. Also, the show suffers from many extra problems. Its main one though is that the dialogue is so f***ing atrocious.

Agreed. In terms of plot/story, both the shows and the books fell down the same, tedious, stagnant swamp. 

But I think the show had a tiny advantage here in how it didn't introduce characters as weak (in my opinion) as the Damphair or Quentyn or Jon Connington and could've focused on the other, more important players, but in typical D$D fashion, they screwed things up. 

I mean, no shade to Martin, but if D$D had the talent and the, I don't know, passion, they could've done what Martin's editors couldn't and be the guys who fixed, or at least improved Feast/Dance. Instead they became the bros who ruined everything.

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3 hours ago, iprayiam said:

 Mereen is the poster child of this.

Absolutely. Notice the whole multi-season storyline was wrapped up as the B-plot in the episode dominated by the Battle of the Bastards. As if to say, "What? Mereen? Oh yeah, um...dragons, fire, whatever."

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The last 10 minutes was OK. Solely, because we've been waiting for seven seasons to finally see a dragon in action. Special effects were excellent. Regardless, the entire episode was pretty stupid.

Why does Dany hate horses so much? Why does she hate food? Guess 100,000 Dothraki can be fed on turnips and cake, which I'm sure dragonstone has plenty of.

Sorry to tell the fans, but Bronn and Jamie are dead. They may be replace with lookalikes like Arya was last season (after dying from wounds and infection), but the are DEAD. Jaime has drowned, like all who fall into deep water in armour. Bronn is BBQ. Jumping off a platform at the last second wouldn't save you from the fire, which as we saw in each prior instance, hits the ground and spreads out everywhere.

Last episode we were told Sansa was "smart." So, she watches the exchange between Arya and Brianne and doesn't figure out they've met before and this information has been kept from her. NOT so smart.

Armies DO NOT send gold in wagon trains ahead of the army. The point of having an ARMY is to defend your gold.

The attempt to humanize Dickon before they probably kill him next episode fell flat because of plot holes. "You had to fight those (Reach) men because their lady betrayed the Iron Throne." Um, you mean like after the crazy Iron Throne lady killed off half their heirs? Umm, no!

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Posted (edited)

28 minutes ago, Low Sparrow said:

Last episode we were told Sansa was "smart." So, she watches the exchange between Arya and Brianne and doesn't figure out they've met before and this information has been kept from her. NOT so smart.

What the hell are you talking about??

Sansa already KNOWS Arya and Brienne had met before. Noone was keeping that from her. In season 6 episode 2 Sansa and Brienne talk about Arya and Brienne tells Sansa where she last saw her and how "she wasn't exactly dressed like a Lady" to which Sansa replied "no, she wouldn't be".

Edited by Gaz0680

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On 8/7/2017 at 9:32 AM, LokisRaider said:

Oh and was Bronn laughing at Dickon when he said his name because his name has "Dick" in it? That is the only reason I can think of and if someone could explain why his name was funny and I missed something please let me know. Otherwise congratulations to the writers, maybe next week someone will say they have to "do their homework" and a the reply will be a Beavis and Butthead grunt "Uh-huh-huh-huh you said do your homework" real riveting stuff.

Dick On! Get it? Uh-huh-huh-uh-huh-huh-huh! Never mind that the reference doesn't play time-wise, "dick" meaning penis, hisotrically, is rather modern ... but, I'm sure the average viewer won't consider that. -_-

Oh, reminds me, another nitcpick. Ballistas, unless mounted behind a wall, are essentially one or two shot weapons. They take way too long to reload. Bran got off 3 shots in like 4 minutes. Nah!

Oh, and not related to above comment, but to seeral comments in here ... why are people bothering to come in here to nitpick the nitpicks? Aren't there enough threads for mindless idolatry to engage them?

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15 hours ago, Illiterati said:

I believe LF was merely acting as an agent of Olenna when Joffrey was poisoned.  In fact, I don't think he had any direct incolvement, just knowledge of it.  I think he let on that he was more involved to endear himself to Sansa.

I think you err. Littlefinger (in the book as well as in the Show) organized the moonstone-hair net for Sansa and the Fool Dontos was his catspaw. Who had the idea first to poison Joeffrey is not clear; probably Olenna. But Littlefinger was deeply involved in planning and exectuing the murder.

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7 hours ago, Low Sparrow said:

The last 10 minutes was OK. Solely, because we've been waiting for seven seasons to finally see a dragon in action. Special effects were excellent. Regardless, the entire episode was pretty stupid.

Why does Dany hate horses so much? Why does she hate food? Guess 100,000 Dothraki can be fed on turnips and cake, which I'm sure dragonstone has plenty of.

Sorry to tell the fans, but Bronn and Jamie are dead. They may be replace with lookalikes like Arya was last season (after dying from wounds and infection), but the are DEAD. Jaime has drowned, like all who fall into deep water in armour. Bronn is BBQ. Jumping off a platform at the last second wouldn't save you from the fire, which as we saw in each prior instance, hits the ground and spreads out everywhere.

Last episode we were told Sansa was "smart." So, she watches the exchange between Arya and Brianne and doesn't figure out they've met before and this information has been kept from her. NOT so smart.

Armies DO NOT send gold in wagon trains ahead of the army. The point of having an ARMY is to defend your gold.

The attempt to humanize Dickon before they probably kill him next episode fell flat because of plot holes. "You had to fight those (Reach) men because their lady betrayed the Iron Throne." Um, you mean like after the crazy Iron Throne lady killed off half their heirs? Umm, no!

Jaime isn't dead.  Nor is Bronn. Sorry bro

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