Daenerys, Drogon, and the Dothraki are AWESOME!

[Aerys the Glad]

6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

The Lannisters were the best that Westeros had to offer.  But they were still no match for the Dothraki.  The books are clear on this.  Nobody wins against the Dothraki in the open field.  And the Unsullied at Qohor?  They were defending a gate and it's not out in the wide open field.  

And the Dothraki would have given Tyrion a rather energetic backhand across the mouth. 

Indeed. Or well. Nobody wins against the Dothraki in the open field as long as they are reinforced by a dragon and their opponents are taken by surprise in column formation. That is a slightly altered, but significantly more truthful statement. Furthermore, on the topic of Qohor, if you lose a battle where you outnumber a host of lightly armored eunuchs 8:1 and blame it on a gate I don't believe you are in a position to claim supremacy on any turf. It's not as though the Unsullied are that great at fighting. Marketing they know, however. 

 

6 hours ago, OldGimletEye said:

Really the Lannisters are the best? Better than anyone else? I don't think that is true. And I don't think it's quite clear the Dothraki would just steamroll any Westerosi army. There has been quite a bit of discussion on this topic on the book forum military threads.

The fact of the matter is Calvary archers are no trump card. It's true the Mongolians were highly successful. It's also seemingly true that the Dothraki seem like a low rent version of the Mongols.

And as I said, the Lannister troops as presented in the show were hardly a "rabble", it would seem.

I think there is some reason to believe that the Lannisters do have, if not the best, at least one of the better armies. Its been a while since I last read the books, but I seem to remember that it is semiprofessional. If not it is at least the best equipped one due to the region's wealth.

Anyway, I don't think the Dothraki would steamroll a Westerosi army. If it were as easy as strapping on a pair of leather chaps, painting your naked torso blue and come charging at the enemy in a disorganized horde I think the Westerosi would be doing that. Indeed, riding half naked without a shield would, I assume, have some disadvantages. Arrows for example.

 

[Aerys the Glad]

23 minutes ago, Lordsteve666 said:

It's a fantasy show though, so what might happen in real life if they charged a shield wall is not important.

Just look at Return of the King, the Riders of Rohan charged straight into a massive shield wall pretty much and with the volume of horsemen they had it didn;'t matter for shit. Sheer volume and weight would prevail.
The Dothraki were no different, they probably vastly outnumbered the Lannister & Tarly army which was hastily prepared and not really prepared to have to face that sort of mounted force.

Add in a single dragon and anything could happen. Lord only knows what would happen with all 3 dragon in play.

In fact is makes me wonder what those wars in Essos with Valyria vs the Rhoynar, or Old Ghis would have been like, there were 300+ dragons in some of those conflicts. That would be an apocalyptic inferno in that sort of situation, no wonder the Valyrians crush all before them.

Sure, it's a fantasy show. But it is very clear that horses and humans work more or less the same in this fictitious universe as they do in real life (or at least in this regard). It is therefore reasonable to expect that horses cannot charge into shield walls. 

An example from the Return of the Kings is logically unsound because by the same reasoning it would be equally feasible for me to assume that horses in GoT could not only charge into shield walls but also speak and walk upright, because that's what they do in Disney.

[daemonTheBlack]

7 hours ago, Aerys the Glad said:

Sure, it's a fantasy show. But it is very clear that horses and humans work more or less the same in this fictitious universe as they do in real life (or at least in this regard). It is therefore reasonable to expect that horses cannot charge into shield walls. 

An example from the Return of the Kings is logically unsound because by the same reasoning it would be equally feasible for me to assume that horses in GoT could not only charge into shield walls but also speak and walk upright, because that's what they do in Disney.

You have a one-track mind, and very limited knowledge of history. I suspect you learnt your history from rock-paper-scissors-type video games like Total War.

I would suggest you to go read up on the achievements and tactics of the Winged Hussars, the Huns, the Mongols and the Parthians.

[Fiery Heart]

Of course horses can charge into shield walls, they can jump pretty damn high and weigh a hell of a lot more than a men do. Have you ever seen a horse kick?

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Fiery Heart said:

Of course horses can charge into shield walls, they can jump pretty damn high and weigh a hell of a lot more than a men do. Have you ever seen a horse kick?

Heavily armoured cavalry (eg knights, cataphracts) have certainly broken shieldwalls.  But, there are also examples of them coming badly to grief when facing well-trained infantry, armed with long spears, pikes, longbows, sometimes fighting from behind rows of wooden stakes, or wagons, or when fighting on the wrong terrain.  Crecy, Courtrai, Bannockburn, Agincourt are all examples.

But, it's very hard to envisage light cavalry breaking a shieldwall, formed by disciplined troops.  They don't have the momentum, and with light, or little armour, they're vulnerable to the enemy's weapons. Historically, breaking a shieldwall was not their job.  Their job was to harass the enemy, raiding, scouting, seizing supplies etc.  The Dothraki are light cavalry.

That's why Drogon was crucial to victory.  Without him burning his way through the Lannisters, the Dothraki would have impaled themselves on their spears.

[Mon ami]

It's always a delight to watch Daenerys riding Drogon.  Count me now among the fans of the Dothraki.  I have gained respect and appreciation for the Dothraki. 

[Mon ami]

The Dothraki are a warrior society.  Every man on that field on the Dothraki side is a warrior.  Not so on a Westerosi army.  The Dothraki will always have the upper hand.

[A Ghost of Someone]

14 hours ago, Skahaz mo Kandaq said:

The perfect Hand of the Queen is coming.   Ser Jorah Mormont is on his way to Dragonstone.  It's time to kill the lions.  Any hints of betrayal from Tyrion and he too should be fed to the fire.

I could see that happening, Jorah replacing Tyrion.

[The Commentator]

5 hours ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I could see that happening, Jorah replacing Tyrion.

Jorah would be a huge improvement over Tyrion.  

[The Commentator]

20 hours ago, Aerys the Glad said:

Indeed. Or well. Nobody wins against the Dothraki in the open field as long as they are reinforced by a dragon and their opponents are taken by surprise in column formation. That is a slightly altered, but significantly more truthful statement. Furthermore, on the topic of Qohor, if you lose a battle where you outnumber a host of lightly armored eunuchs 8:1 and blame it on a gate I don't believe you are in a position to claim supremacy on any turf. It's not as though the Unsullied are that great at fighting. Marketing they know, however. 

 

I think there is some reason to believe that the Lannisters do have, if not the best, at least one of the better armies. Its been a while since I last read the books, but I seem to remember that it is semiprofessional. If not it is at least the best equipped one due to the region's wealth.

Anyway, I don't think the Dothraki would steamroll a Westerosi army. If it were as easy as strapping on a pair of leather chaps, painting your naked torso blue and come charging at the enemy in a disorganized horde I think the Westerosi would be doing that. Indeed, riding half naked without a shield would, I assume, have some disadvantages. Arrows for example.

 

The Dothraki would have won anyway even without the magnificent team of Daenerys and Drogon to break Jaime's shield line.  

You are underestimating the Unsullied.  They are the best infantry on Planetos.  Their lines would not break .

Daenerys has the best ground forces.  The best infantry.  The best cavalry.  

The only reason her military position got compromised is because she listened to that imp , Tyrion.  Yara and Ollena were the ones who were right all along.

[A Ghost of Someone]

9 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Jorah would be a huge improvement over Tyrion.  

yep, just so long as she basically tells him that "look, I am not going to fuck you and you need to understand that before taking the Hand, ok?"

[El Guapo]

2 minutes ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

yep, just so long as she basically tells him that "look, I am not going to fuck you and you need to understand that before taking the Hand, ok?"

"and I don't want to see you get all jealous when I start banging my nephew, ok?"

[A Ghost of Someone]

42 minutes ago, El Guapo said:

"and I don't want to see you get all jealous when I start banging my nephew, ok?"

yeah, that too.

[Ser Matt Dayne]

On 8/7/2017 at 5:31 PM, TeethGrinder said:

The dude who told Tyrion the Lannister's can't fight deserves a painful death. The Dothraki had the equivalent of a nuclear bomb on their side. What a piece of shit, his people are afraid of the sea for fuck sake.

Both Drogon and the Dothraki did their job. The former minimised any protracted stand off that would cause any further considerable damage to the queen's army while the latter very much lived up to their reputation as fierce and expert warriors on horseback (says it all when even precious Bronn was left flailing on the ground after being outsmarted by a Dothraki rider).

All in all it was a very good day to be team Dany so I could forgive a bit of boasting in victory. In poor taste what that guy said no doubt....but the Dothraki aren't known for their sensitivity and compassion in battle.

 

[The Commentator]

5 minutes ago, Ser Matt Dayne said:

Both Drogon and the Dothraki did their job. The former minimised any protracted stand off that would cause any further considerable damage to the queen's army while the latter very much lived up to their reputation as fierce and expert warriors on horseback (says it all when even precious Bronn was left flailing on the ground after being outsmarted by a Dothraki rider).

All in all it was a very good day to be team Dany so I could forgive a bit of boasting in victory. In poor taste what that guy said no doubt....but the Dothraki aren't known for their sensitivity and compassion in battle.

 

I think there was a little bit of annoyance towards Tyrion by the people on Team Dany.  His ridiculous plan caused them the loss of Lady Ollena and Ellaria Sand.  It was not a good idea to follow Tyrion's advice.  His plans to allow slavery for seven years didn't work out in Meereen.  It is really an inconsistency with the writing.  Benioff and Weiss wanted to make Tyrion more compassionate and wise-sounding but that doesn't fit his history.  This is the man who set Stannis Bartheon's fleet on fire with wildfire.  This is the kinslayer, the man who murdered his father in the toilet. The one who strangled hiss girlfriend to death.   

[Illiterati]

Tyrion is a political adviser who has no business recommending military strategy.  I believe this sequence of events is intended to highlight that before Jorah steps back into the picture.

[mr.archanfel]

Several questions:

1. How big was the Lannister army? Looks to be no more than a few hundreds troops, but it's a TV show, so do they represent 10,000 soldiers? Did the Lannisters lose most of their army? 

2. Why didn't Jaime have outriders? You would think he should have learned his lesson from the battle of riverrun. 

3. The dragon is certainly a great weapon of terror, but other than creating fear and breaking formations, would it be effective against a disciplined army (say the army of the dead, fire weakness aside)? Exactly how many soldiers did Drogon kill? It seems a catapult firing flaming ball would do similar damages. 

4. Why didn't they have more anti-dragon weapons? What would be the best way to fight dragons? Flying net? Crossbows against the rider?

[Snormund]

Just now, mr.archanfel said:

Several questions:

1. How big was the Lannister army? Looks to be no more than a few hundreds troops, but it's a TV show, so do they represent 10,000 soldiers? Did the Lannisters lose most of their army? 

2. Why Jaime did not have outriders? You would think he should have learned his lesson from the battle of riverrun. 

3. The dragon is certainly a great weapon of terror, but other than creating fear and break formations, would it be effective against a disciplined army (say the army of the dead, fire weakness aside)? Exactly how many soldiers did Drogon kill? It seems a catapult firing flaming ball would do similar damages. 

4. Why don't they have more anti-dragon weapons? What would be the best way to fight dragons? Flying net? Crossbows against the rider?

Drogon easily killed hundreds if not thousands of soldiers. 

[Illiterati]

2 minutes ago, mr.archanfel said:

 Exactly how many soldiers did Drogon kill? It seems a catapult firing flaming ball would do similar damages. 

 

We must have watched different battles.  While flaming balls would be mortar rounds randomly picking off enemies, Drogon was Dresden.

[Wolf's Bane]

23 hours ago, The Coonster said:

That sonofabitch is still alive.  I hope the Dothraki find his ass and torture him to death.  And if that little shit Tyrion utters one of his bullshit advice, burn the Imp with dragon fire.

Count me among the Bronn haters now.