shawnpmcd

Stark Reunions compared

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Observation that maybe means literally nothing:  Bran hugged Arya back this episode when they first met but coldly just sat there arms down when he reunited with Sansa last episode.  Does anyone have the screenshots (can see Bran returning hug of Arya when Arya's back is to the screen)

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I noticed. It might mean that Bran is slowly recovering from his information overload and autistic emotional state, he might be learning to manage better his hability of "seeing everything, everywhere, always in his mind".

Or it might just mean that, for some reason, he likes Arya more than he likes Sansa..

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1 hour ago, shawnpmcd said:

Observation that maybe means literally nothing:  Bran hugged Arya back this episode when they first met but coldly just sat there arms down when he reunited with Sansa last episode.  Does anyone have the screenshots (can see Bran returning hug of Arya when Arya's back is to the screen)

There were some clear differences. 

Bran saw Arya at the crossroads and he thought she would be going to King's Landing. He was keeping an eye on her. He definitely did hug her back, which I think Sansa noticed. Instead of pointing out all the grim moments in Arya's journey (Red Wedding, Faceless Men, her time in Harrenhal...etc) he refers to Arya's list and how she has Cersei on it and then gifts her the Valyrian dagger after Arya points out how important it is. Again, you can see Sansa make another weird face. 

Even the way Bran gives Arya the dagger was... almost deliberate. Like he was provoking a chain of events. Killing LF is not going to be the dagger's true purpose. Bran's concerns are way bigger than LF. He is seeing the big picture now and the true threat isn't LF. 

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3 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

There were some clear differences. 

Bran saw Arya at the crossroads and he thought she would be going to King's Landing. He was keeping an eye on her. He definitely did hug her back, which I think Sansa noticed. Instead of pointing out all the grim moments in Arya's journey (Red Wedding, Faceless Men, her time in Harrenhal...etc) he refers to Arya's list and how she has Cersei on it and then gifts her the Valyrian dagger after Arya points out how important it is. Again, you can see Sansa make another weird face. 

Even the way Bran gives Arya the dagger was... almost deliberate. Like he was provoking a chain of events. Killing LF is not going to be the dagger's true purpose. Bran's concerns are way bigger than LF. He is seeing the big picture now and the true threat isn't LF. 

Absolutely. Littlefinger's influence over Sansa is greatly reduced and LF faces two new arrivals to Winterfell he knows wont be easily manipulated and who pose a threat to him. Bran knowing something about Petyr that only himself and Varys should know clearly threw him and the suspicious way Arya looked at him acter her duel with Brienne also concerned him. 

Im sure LF will pull at least one more move, but it is unlikely to yield the results he intends. For all intents and purposes, his place in the story as far as the tv show goes is already done and dusted. 

The Valyrian steel dagger is going to be the death of a super important character...either the Night King himself or Cersei. If its the NK, it wont necessarily be Arya wielding it. 

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4 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

I noticed. It might mean that Bran is slowly recovering from his information overload and autistic emotional state, he might be learning to manage better his hability of "seeing everything, everywhere, always in his mind".

Or it might just mean that, for some reason, he likes Arya more than he likes Sansa..

I hope it means that Bran is recovering, I don't think he's going to remain in an emotionless no-longer-Bran-Stark state forever. He and Arya did seem to have a closer relationship - at the very least they actually shared a scene together in s1 - clearly they shared interests, teased each other (her beating him at archery), were closer in age than him and Sansa, and he probably found Arya more fun to play with. But given how he treated Meera how "Bran Stark" felt about people doesn't seem to matter anymore.

3 hours ago, DutchArya said:

He refers to Arya's list and how she has Cersei on it and then gifts her the Valyrian dagger after Arya points out how important it is. Again, you can see Sansa make another weird face. 

Even the way Bran gives Arya the dagger was... almost deliberate. Like he was provoking a chain of events. Killing LF is not going to be the dagger's true purpose. Bran's concerns are way bigger than LF. He is seeing the big picture now and the true threat isn't LF. 

Yeah, the dagger seemed to be more about manipulating events than any affection for Arya. But the way he immediately seemed closer to Arya - being in on her list when Sansa only just heard about it, and hugging Arya back when he didn't hug Sansa - does raise questions of how Sansa feels about it.

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Posted (edited)

10 minutes ago, AryaUnderfoot33 said:

Yeah, the dagger seemed to be more about manipulating events than any affection for Arya. But the way he immediately seemed closer to Arya - being in on her list when Sansa only just heard about it, and hugging Arya back when he didn't hug Sansa - does raise questions of how Sansa feels about it.

But Bran is so detached and emotionless - yet he seemed brighter and more invested in Arya's return. He saw her at the crossroads, keeping an eye on her. We saw more insight in the HBO script hack for this scene as well.

Apparently, 

Spoiler

Bran expected Arya at a later time, he expected the storm to slow her down. But she obviously rode ahead of it. Which just goes to highlight Arya's eagerness to get home?

 

Edited by DutchArya

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I already mentioned this in the Rave thread but maybe he was more human while meeting Arya because Meera just told him that he acts like a total jerk when he doesn't show any feelings or gratitute to her, Jojen and Hodor. Maybe Bran actually listened to what she was saying and realized that he should act in a less robotic way.

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A long time ago (way before the shows) someone made a comment to GRRM about Sansa starting to lose her "Starkness" when Lady died and GRRM said the person who asked the question was very perceptive.  I think there is more to Bran's reaction to Sansa than meets the eye.

I know they originally intentionally kept out that Sansa went to Cersei and warned her that Eddard was trying to take them out of the city.  They did that so no one would hate on Sansa (Sophie Turner).  Well now Sansa is an established character maybe that bombshell is going to be revealed.

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8 hours ago, shawnpmcd said:

Observation that maybe means literally nothing:  Bran hugged Arya back this episode when they first met but coldly just sat there arms down when he reunited with Sansa last episode.  Does anyone have the screenshots (can see Bran returning hug of Arya when Arya's back is to the screen)

I brought this up in another thread. I noticed he didn't hug Sansa back. I thought it was strange. I wondered if he he would hug Jon or Arya. He definitely hugged Arya back. Sansa noticed Bran was more embracing to Arya. I agree there is more to it. Sansas character this season comes off more darker this season. Bran can see the future. He sees Sansa still cares more about being powerful and ruling over the big threat north. Sansa enjoyed saying she is the lady of Winterfell when in the crypts with Arya. Her look on her face this season says a lot about her motives. That is just my opinion. 

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I kinda liked Arya-Sansa reunion. It was awkward but I'm glad that they were genuinely happy to see each other. I expected that at least Arya would start blaming Sansa for betraying Ned etc. But I guess things are set up for a tension to keep some action before the WWs arrive. Even if it would be very clumsy like the one between Sansa and Jon.

Bran hugging Arya wasn't really consistent with his behavior with Sansa and Meera, but I didn't even noticed it.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

I kinda liked Arya-Sansa reunion. It was awkward but I'm glad that they were genuinely happy to see each other. I expected that at least Arya would start blaming Sansa for betraying Ned etc. But I guess things are set up for a tension to keep some action before the WWs arrive. Even if it would be very clumsy like the one between Sansa and Jon.

Bran hugging Arya wasn't really consistent with his behavior with Sansa and Meera, but I didn't even noticed it.

I found the Arya-Sansa reunion odd because it was kinda fell between giving neither the emotional/overjoyed reaction that Jon-Sansa got or an acknowledgement/working through their past issues in s1. They were happy but it was just pretty casual like "oh hi Sansa, fancy seeing you here" and the actresses played it weirdly flat. The lack of background music also really showed.

Realistically it might have been awkward, but why Jon and Sansa - who never even shared a previous scene - got an emotional hug and the Stark theme playing, while Arya and Sansa who had a much more significant relationship were so anticlimactic puzzles me. Should Jon and Sansa have been less happy then? While the awkwardness of Bran reuniting is kind of justified, Arya and Sansa wasn't. It's like the writers gave one good reunion and can't be bothered to do any more. Which kind of sucks because Jon-Sansa was probably the least anticipated Stark reunion, while fans have been waiting on Arya-Sansa for years.

Edited by AryaUnderfoot33

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Jon/Sansa > Arya/Bran > Arya/Sansa > Sansa/Bran 

Arya and Bran were close as kids, this showed through a lot. Bran hugged Arya back and gave her the dagger (not Sansa) and it was clear that Sansa disliked both these nuances. Bran actually conversed with Arya and didn't creep her out. It seemed to me, for a moment, that Sansa wasn't even sure she believed that Bran had visions. She said those words as if they were code for looney and she and Arya would know better. But then Bran proved Arya that he's a seer and Arya didn't doubt him, instead, they talked about the dagger. Of course, is it fair to blame Sansa for acting like this? She tried to talk to Bran, who refused to explain the visions and reminded Sansa that she was beautiful on the night of her coerced wedding.

The reunion between Sansa and Arya was very underwhelming and had a gaping plot hole. The dialogue was bad too, but it was the two actresses who screwed it up worse. In that scene, I didn't see Sansa and Arya reuniting at all. I saw Maisie Williams and Sophie Turner being happy that after 6 years they have a scene together again. Very very bad acting. They were better when Bran came along. 

And let's not even mention the fact that in the season of Stark reunions, it's Jaime fucking Lannister who utters the word "Rickon". Like fuck. Did these kids collectively forget they had a fifth sibling? Arya doesn't even know Rickon is dead. Last episode I told myself, okay, Bran knows it already and that's why they don't mention him. But Arya doesn't! And fucking Sansa who basically let Rickon die, doesn't even mention him! They are down in the Winterfell crypts! MY GOD. 

And yes, it's ironic that Jon and Sansa would have the most emotional reunion, who had the least connection in their childhood. But then with Arya being a zombie and Bran a psychic, I guess that's all you can expect. I want Jon and Arya to have a satisfying reunion. 

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2 minutes ago, AryaUnderfoot33 said:

Realistically it might have been awkward, but why Jon and Sansa - who never even shared a previous scene - got an emotional hug and the Stark theme playing, while Arya and Sansa who had a much more significant relationship were so anticlimactic puzzles me.

Because it was the first reunion. It represented a moment of happiness for our favorite House. It was a turning point for Starks. That is why it had such emotional impact. Producers obviously want to evade repetitiveness of the scene so each reunion has its own different terms.

Simply, Jon/Sansa reunion will always be the one that put the Starks back on the board of Game of thrones :D 

5 hours ago, Visenya the Dragon said:

I brought this up in another thread. I noticed he didn't hug Sansa back. I thought it was strange. I wondered if he he would hug Jon or Arya. He definitely hugged Arya back. Sansa noticed Bran was more embracing to Arya. I agree there is more to it. Sansas character this season comes off more darker this season. Bran can see the future. He sees Sansa still cares more about being powerful and ruling over the big threat north. Sansa enjoyed saying she is the lady of Winterfell when in the crypts with Arya. Her look on her face this season says a lot about her motives. That is just my opinion. 

I think I have answered this couple of times, but I am not sure any of those answers actually went online :D Bran is catatonic, I think part of his training for the Long Night will be accepting his humanity and working its powers around it, finding some balance to say the least. So, when we first see him, he is this robotic version. I feel as this was one step to regaining the humanity and the longer he is with his family, his sisters, the longer the pack bond will grow and he will regain the piece he lost with the system overload he was exposed.

I honestly have no idea where this idea of ruthless, dark Sansa comes from? From her pleads to Jon not to endanger himself? From always being the one running towards her siblings and actually showing more emotions than the two of them combined. I am also puzzled with this power-hungry POV people have on her. Yes, she is a lady, she is good at it, I don't think she is bothered by the duty installed upon her, but she simply isn't what people make of her. She is preparing her Kingdom for the upcoming winter and the dangers with it. 

As for talk in the crypts and Sansa enjoyed saying she is in charge, first one has to understand that the reunion started with the internal joke. "Shall I call you Lady Stark now?" is Arya's verbal reminder of what Sansa wanted - Arya to recognize her authority and bow to her. It was childish thing, something she overgrew many times. So, when she says yes and laughs at it, it is more like Sansa admitting her own flaws and remembering what kind of relationship she had with Arya. It is sweet. When she answers about Jon leaving her in charge, she is also proud of the trust and responsibility Jon left her with. What Jon did was very smart, although I am not sure he thought of it that way. Leaving her in charge made of her the most loyal person (to Jon) in the castle. Even LF has to remind Sansa about South and Sersei. She was doing what Jon would have done. She was working exactly what she is supposed to do to prepare them for the WW invasion.

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6 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

And let's not even mention the fact that in the season of Stark reunions, it's Jaime fucking Lannister who utters the word "Rickon". Like fuck. Did these kids collectively forget they had a fifth sibling? Arya doesn't even know Rickon is dead. Last episode I told myself, okay, Bran knows it already and that's why they don't mention him. But Arya doesn't! And fucking Sansa who basically let Rickon die, doesn't even mention him! They are down in the Winterfell crypts! MY GOD. 

Luckily we have Dickon Tarly to remind us of Rickon... Jesus...

As for Sansa letting Rickon die, what could she have done that she didn't. It wasn't like she escaped WF and left Rickon to Ramsay. She only understood that Ramsay won't be letting Rickon alive, which was, to remind everyone, very true. She was trying not to get two brothers killed in one instance. Hence she had to say the difficult truth so Jon wouldn't get into the trap. Unfortunately, she wasn't listened and Jon almost got himself killed. 

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32 minutes ago, Risto said:

Luckily we have Dickon Tarly to remind us of Rickon... Jesus...

As for Sansa letting Rickon die, what could she have done that she didn't. It wasn't like she escaped WF and left Rickon to Ramsay. She only understood that Ramsay won't be letting Rickon alive, which was, to remind everyone, very true. She was trying not to get two brothers killed in one instance. Hence she had to say the difficult truth so Jon wouldn't get into the trap. Unfortunately, she wasn't listened and Jon almost got himself killed. 

Sansa purposely misled Jon about their military strength and didn't tell him to wait for the Vale army. Nice way trying not to get a brother killed. Sansa also didn't bring up Rickon (neither did Jon, the responsibility in this aspect is shared) when they treated with Ramsay. They just ignored the head of Shaggydog and didn't even try to negotiate for his release. Sansa convinced Jon to take back Winterfell saying that a monster has taken their home and their brother. I suppose she decided Rickon wasn't that important along the way? She did quickly forget about him, that's for sure, because she mentioned him to neither Bran nor Arya. I wonder if Jon will. I wonder if anybody will. 

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9 hours ago, Nerevanin said:

I already mentioned this in the Rave thread but maybe he was more human while meeting Arya because Meera just told him that he acts like a total jerk when he doesn't show any feelings or gratitute to her, Jojen and Hodor. Maybe Bran actually listened to what she was saying and realized that he should act in a less robotic way.

Exactly how I took it. Especially since him being emotionless is so obvious and shown in the episodes and clearly having an effect on this around him (i.e. Meera). 

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Lady Sandra and Arya never liked each other. The reunion was true in that sense and they also remarked that Jon and Arya love each other, they had the strongest bond of all the Stark children. JonAry ship:wub:

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Was anyone else concerned by Sansa's word choice for when Jon and Arya meet- his heart will burst? It felt ominous to me. 

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28 minutes ago, direwoofwoof said:

Was anyone else concerned by Sansa's word choice for when Jon and Arya meet- his heart will burst? It felt ominous to me. 

His heart will stop beating, actually.

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Posted (edited)

15 hours ago, AryaUnderfoot33 said:

Realistically it might have been awkward, but why Jon and Sansa - who never even shared a previous scene - got an emotional hug and the Stark theme playing, while Arya and Sansa who had a much more significant relationship were so anticlimactic puzzles me. Should Jon and Sansa have been less happy then? While the awkwardness of Bran reuniting is kind of justified, Arya and Sansa wasn't. It's like the writers gave one good reunion and can't be bothered to do any more. Which kind of sucks because Jon-Sansa was probably the least anticipated Stark reunion, while fans have been waiting on Arya-Sansa for years.

Jon and Sansa meeting was a totally different situation. Sansa reaches Castle Black after a siege, escape and exhausting journey. He is her only hope. Jon and Sansa consider each other the last living kin.

When Sansa sees Bran she rushes to hug him, the same as Jon. But Bran seems a creepy weirdo and says strange things. Next time with Arya Sansa is more cautious because she doesn't know what a person her sister became and how to deal with her.

If they try to show Sansa as a politician then her reaction is pretty logical. She tries to break the ice by and find some reference points like mentioning Jon, Arya's favorite brother.

Re issues from s1, I think their dialog about Joffrey's killing was about. It seems that Arya left behind the Trident episode.

Edited by Ashes Of Westeros

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