Stark Reunions compared

[aryana]

15 hours ago, Risto said:

I think I have answered this couple of times, but I am not sure any of those answers actually went online  Bran is catatonic, I think part of his training for the Long Night will be accepting his humanity and working its powers around it, finding some balance to say the least. So, when we first see him, he is this robotic version. I feel as this was one step to regaining the humanity and the longer he is with his family, his sisters, the longer the pack bond will grow and he will regain the piece he lost with the system overload he was exposed.

I honestly have no idea where this idea of ruthless, dark Sansa comes from? From her pleads to Jon not to endanger himself? From always being the one running towards her siblings and actually showing more emotions than the two of them combined. I am also puzzled with this power-hungry POV people have on her. Yes, she is a lady, she is good at it, I don't think she is bothered by the duty installed upon her, but she simply isn't what people make of her. She is preparing her Kingdom for the upcoming winter and the dangers with it. 

As for talk in the crypts and Sansa enjoyed saying she is in charge, first one has to understand that the reunion started with the internal joke. "Shall I call you Lady Stark now?" is Arya's verbal reminder of what Sansa wanted - Arya to recognize her authority and bow to her. It was childish thing, something she overgrew many times. So, when she says yes and laughs at it, it is more like Sansa admitting her own flaws and remembering what kind of relationship she had with Arya. It is sweet. When she answers about Jon leaving her in charge, she is also proud of the trust and responsibility Jon left her with. What Jon did was very smart, although I am not sure he thought of it that way. Leaving her in charge made of her the most loyal person (to Jon) in the castle. Even LF has to remind Sansa about South and Sersei. She was doing what Jon would have done. She was working exactly what she is supposed to do to prepare them for the WW invasion.

Agree.

51 minutes ago, Ashes Of Westeros said:

Jon and Sansa meeting was a totally different situation. Sansa reaches Castle Black after a siege, escape and exhausting journey. He is her only hope. Jon and Sansa consider each other the last living kin.

When Sansa sees Bran she rushes to hug him, the same as Jon. But Bran seems a creepy weirdo and says strange things. Next time with Arya Sansa is more cautious because she doesn't know what a person her sister became and how to deal with her.

If they try to show Sansa as a politician then her reaction is pretty logical. She tries to break the ice by and find some reference points like mentioning Jon, Arya's favorite brother.

And agree.

And when Jon saw Sansa it was a total shock for him, whilst Sansa had a few minutes getting from her chambers to the crypts to settle her thoughts and feelings. I think it was a lovely reunion.

[Visenya the Dragon]

17 hours ago, Risto said:

Because it was the first reunion. It represented a moment of happiness for our favorite House. It was a turning point for Starks. That is why it had such emotional impact. Producers obviously want to evade repetitiveness of the scene so each reunion has its own different terms.

Simply, Jon/Sansa reunion will always be the one that put the Starks back on the board of Game of thrones  

I think I have answered this couple of times, but I am not sure any of those answers actually went online  Bran is catatonic, I think part of his training for the Long Night will be accepting his humanity and working its powers around it, finding some balance to say the least. So, when we first see him, he is this robotic version. I feel as this was one step to regaining the humanity and the longer he is with his family, his sisters, the longer the pack bond will grow and he will regain the piece he lost with the system overload he was exposed.

I honestly have no idea where this idea of ruthless, dark Sansa comes from? From her pleads to Jon not to endanger himself? From always being the one running towards her siblings and actually showing more emotions than the two of them combined. I am also puzzled with this power-hungry POV people have on her. Yes, she is a lady, she is good at it, I don't think she is bothered by the duty installed upon her, but she simply isn't what people make of her. She is preparing her Kingdom for the upcoming winter and the dangers with it. 

As for talk in the crypts and Sansa enjoyed saying she is in charge, first one has to understand that the reunion started with the internal joke. "Shall I call you Lady Stark now?" is Arya's verbal reminder of what Sansa wanted - Arya to recognize her authority and bow to her. It was childish thing, something she overgrew many times. So, when she says yes and laughs at it, it is more like Sansa admitting her own flaws and remembering what kind of relationship she had with Arya. It is sweet. When she answers about Jon leaving her in charge, she is also proud of the trust and responsibility Jon left her with. What Jon did was very smart, although I am not sure he thought of it that way. Leaving her in charge made of her the most loyal person (to Jon) in the castle. Even LF has to remind Sansa about South and Sersei. She was doing what Jon would have done. She was working exactly what she is supposed to do to prepare them for the WW invasion.

I thought my post went through yesterday. The page shut down and it got deleted. So I will jump into Sansa being ruthless. Well, she has in the past. She got the buthcher boy killed and all she thought of is "you ruining it for me Arya". So she lied to protect Joffery. To protect her position to be queen. She worried more about her direwolf then the butcher boy being killed. She has never shown remorse for that. She has admitted to being a stupid girl and has grown in that aspect. I know she was young and naive, and thought life as a queen was like a pretty song. When Ned was going to send his daughters back to Winterfell. Sansa ran and told Cersei. All to protect her opportunity to be queen. With being queen comes power. Sansa craves power still. She is good at running Winterfell while Jon is away. Sansa has become a darker character. Last season she watched Ramsy the bastard get torn to pieces by his dogs. Sansa has been tainted by Cersei and littlefinger. I see it in the show by oberserving how she gives these stern looks. She will be the best lair and manipulator. But, Arya will be able to tell when she is lying. Due to Arya and all her training. I know she loves her family. Sansa wants a say in all matters. I know Jon will give her Winterfell once the war with the others is over. 

It was nice to see Arya and Sansa have a happy reunion. Sansa owes Arya an apology as well for being so awful to her.

 

[Mladen]

20 minutes ago, Visenya the Dragon said:

I thought my post went through yesterday. The page shut down and it got deleted. So I will jump into Sansa being ruthless. Well, she has in the past. She got the buthcher boy killed and all she thought of is "you ruining it for me Arya". So she lied to protect Joffery. To protect her position to be queen. She worried more about her direwolf then the butcher boy being killed. She has never shown remorse for that. She has admitted to being a stupid girl and has grown in that aspect. I know she was young and naive, and thought life as a queen was like a pretty song. When Ned was going to send his daughters back to Winterfell. Sansa ran and told Cersei. All to protect her opportunity to be queen. With being queen comes power. Sansa craves power still. She is good at running Winterfell while Jon is away. Sansa has become a darker character. Last season she watched Ramsy the bastard get torn to pieces by his dogs. Sansa has been tainted by Cersei and littlefinger. I see it in the show by oberserving how she gives these stern looks. She will be the best lair and manipulator. But, Arya will be able to tell when she is lying. Due to Arya and all her training. I know she loves her family. Sansa wants a say in all matters. I know Jon will give her Winterfell once the war with the others is over. 

It was nice to see Arya and Sansa have a happy reunion. Sansa owes Arya an apology as well for being so awful to her.

Sansa didn't kill the butcher boy. The Hound was already hunting the boy with the orders to kill him, long before Sansa's testimony. So, she is not to be blamed for that. Joffrey, Cersei, Hound are. As for running to Cersei, that particular bit doesn't exist in this canon (show's canon). 

You know, you say Sansa is ruthless. Yes, she had one instance of ruthlessness with Ramsay and afterwards, she has not shown some great signs of being ruthless. At least, no more than any of the Starks. Arya killed entire room of people. Jon was on the verge of disfiguring Ramsay. Bran now feels nothing for poor Jojen or Hodor. In comparison to them, she is not some ruthless Ice Queen.

Yes, Sansa wants to rule. Is that some terrible thing? She is not blindly ambitious, she is not killing people to get it? She wants to be listened and respected. Don't we all want that? It is not a bad thing. It is quite normal human perspective. 

I think you have a point about Sansa being masterclass manipulator and a liar. But the thing is, she will focus her skills towards people who want to harm her family, not the family itself. I see Sansa as very devoted to her family. 

[Visenya the Dragon]

23 minutes ago, Risto said:

Sansa didn't kill the butcher boy. The Hound was already hunting the boy with the orders to kill him, long before Sansa's testimony. So, she is not to be blamed for that. Joffrey, Cersei, Hound are. As for running to Cersei, that particular bit doesn't exist in this canon (show's canon). 

You know, you say Sansa is ruthless. Yes, she had one instance of ruthlessness with Ramsay and afterwards, she has not shown some great signs of being ruthless. At least, no more than any of the Starks. Arya killed entire room of people. Jon was on the verge of disfiguring Ramsay. Bran now feels nothing for poor Jojen or Hodor. In comparison to them, she is not some ruthless Ice Queen.

Yes, Sansa wants to rule. Is that some terrible thing? She is not blindly ambitious, she is not killing people to get it? She wants to be listened and respected. Don't we all want that? It is not a bad thing. It is quite normal human perspective. 

I think you have a point about Sansa being masterclass manipulator and a liar. But the thing is, she will focus her skills towards people who want to harm her family, not the family itself. I see Sansa as very devoted to her family. 

Ok! Calm down. I see you are a major Sansa fan. We all view things differently. She lied to King Robert still. She was not truthful due to her own ambitions. It has been a while since I have watched season one. At the beginning, I did not care for Sansa. Just a winning brat. I have grown to like her character. I have noticed the looks on her face. I say littlefinger has manipulated her so much, I find it hard for her to really trust anyone. She gives looks like she is sizing everyone up and ready to use words of manipulation on them to get her way. Lets hope if so, that it's for the good of the family and westeros. I hope I am wrong. I hope she never betrays her family again. 

[Future Null Infinity]

16 minutes ago, Visenya the Dragon said:

that it's for the good of the family and westeros. I hope I am wrong. I hope she never betrays her family again. 

I didn't know that Sansa is this monumental threat to westeros, looks like she eclipsed the threat of the NK in story

Sorry but you are wrong, Sansa told her siblings about the true nature of LF in the weirwood scene, I keep hearing "betrayal" but I see nothing in the show

[Visenya the Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I didn't know that Sansa is this monumental threat to westeros, looks like she eclipsed the threat of the NK in story

Sorry but you are wrong, Sansa told her siblings about the true nature of LF in the weirwood scene, I keep hearing "betrayal" but I see nothing in the show

Well I can handle if  I am wrong when it is all said and done. I think you should watch the show again. Sorry but you are wrong She betrayed Arya and Ned her father in season 1. History is known to repeat itself. For sure in westros.  I never said she was going to betray her family. But, like I said before her looks she has giving this season comes off dark. 

By the way,  Sansa said in an interview that her character is darker this season and she is excited with that. 

[Future Null Infinity]

1 minute ago, Visenya the Dragon said:

History is known to repeat itself

isn't that a quote from some philosopher? Ok, fair enough for me, very good argument, let's forgot what she said to her siblings about LF and play some mental gymnastics

5 minutes ago, Visenya the Dragon said:

By the way,  Sansa said in an interview that her character is darker this season and she is excited with that.

emm... sorry, I read the leaks, darker yes but not against the starks

[Visenya the Dragon]

13 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

isn't that a quote from some philosopher? Ok, fair enough for me, very good argument, let's forgot what she said to her siblings about LF and play some mental gymnastics

emm... sorry, I read the leaks, darker yes but not against the starks

I guess it is because you know everything heh? You have some of  Bran powers that you are not telling us. How do you know how things are going to go down after littlefinger is out of the equation. I never said Sansa is going to betray her family for littfinger. I said she has learned how to manipulate from him.

[Mladen]

2 hours ago, Visenya the Dragon said:

Ok! Calm down. I see you are a major Sansa fan. We all view things differently. She lied to King Robert still. She was not truthful due to her own ambitions. It has been a while since I have watched season one. At the beginning, I did not care for Sansa. Just a winning brat. I have grown to like her character. I have noticed the looks on her face. I say littlefinger has manipulated her so much, I find it hard for her to really trust anyone. She gives looks like she is sizing everyone up and ready to use words of manipulation on them to get her way. Lets hope if so, that it's for the good of the family and westeros. I hope I am wrong. I hope she never betrays her family again. 

Honestly, I was rather calm when I first answered you. Yes, you can see that I like Sansa as a character. So what? You are right, we all see things differently. It is my opinion that your views on Sansa are completely wrong. You think otherwise... Plain and simple.

[Visenya the Dragon]

5 minutes ago, Risto said:

Honestly, I was rather calm when I first answered you. Yes, you can see that I like Sansa as a character. So what? You are right, we all see things differently. It is my opinion that your views on Sansa are completely wrong. You think otherwise... Plain and simple.

Ok! This convo is over. You think with a close mind. So the conversation should end hear. Good day to you. #SANSA IS AN ANGEL to all other posters. You can not say nothing bad about Sansa on this tread. You will get close minded arguments. Good luck!

 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

On 8/7/2017 at 5:00 PM, AryaUnderfoot33 said:

I found the Arya-Sansa reunion odd because it was kinda fell between giving neither the emotional/overjoyed reaction that Jon-Sansa got or an acknowledgement/working through their past issues in s1. They were happy but it was just pretty casual like "oh hi Sansa, fancy seeing you here" and the actresses played it weirdly flat. The lack of background music also really showed.

Realistically it might have been awkward, but why Jon and Sansa - who never even shared a previous scene - got an emotional hug and the Stark theme playing, while Arya and Sansa who had a much more significant relationship were so anticlimactic puzzles me. Should Jon and Sansa have been less happy then? While the awkwardness of Bran reuniting is kind of justified, Arya and Sansa wasn't. It's like the writers gave one good reunion and can't be bothered to do any more. Which kind of sucks because Jon-Sansa was probably the least anticipated Stark reunion, while fans have been waiting on Arya-Sansa for years.

I think part of the reason Sansa & Jon's reunion was so emotional is because both of them had just been through a bunch of crap & Jon actually died. They face their own kin for the first time in forever. To have a sibling standing in front of you after all that time would have to be overwhelming. 

As far as Arya & Sansa I didn't find it anticlimactic at all. They acted like I would have expected them to act I guess. Awkward & happy. I'm more looking forward to the Jon/Arya reunion though. That should be good. 

[AryaUnderfoot33]

On 8/8/2017 at 9:19 AM, Risto said:

Because it was the first reunion. It represented a moment of happiness for our favorite House. It was a turning point for Starks. That is why it had such emotional impact. Producers obviously want to evade repetitiveness of the scene so each reunion has its own different terms.

Simply, Jon/Sansa reunion will always be the one that put the Starks back on the board of Game of thrones  

I think I have answered this couple of times, but I am not sure any of those answers actually went online  Bran is catatonic, I think part of his training for the Long Night will be accepting his humanity and working its powers around it, finding some balance to say the least. So, when we first see him, he is this robotic version. I feel as this was one step to regaining the humanity and the longer he is with his family, his sisters, the longer the pack bond will grow and he will regain the piece he lost with the system overload he was exposed.

I honestly have no idea where this idea of ruthless, dark Sansa comes from? From her pleads to Jon not to endanger himself? From always being the one running towards her siblings and actually showing more emotions than the two of them combined. I am also puzzled with this power-hungry POV people have on her. Yes, she is a lady, she is good at it, I don't think she is bothered by the duty installed upon her, but she simply isn't what people make of her. She is preparing her Kingdom for the upcoming winter and the dangers with it. 

As for talk in the crypts and Sansa enjoyed saying she is in charge, first one has to understand that the reunion started with the internal joke. "Shall I call you Lady Stark now?" is Arya's verbal reminder of what Sansa wanted - Arya to recognize her authority and bow to her. It was childish thing, something she overgrew many times. So, when she says yes and laughs at it, it is more like Sansa admitting her own flaws and remembering what kind of relationship she had with Arya. It is sweet. When she answers about Jon leaving her in charge, she is also proud of the trust and responsibility Jon left her with. What Jon did was very smart, although I am not sure he thought of it that way. Leaving her in charge made of her the most loyal person (to Jon) in the castle. Even LF has to remind Sansa about South and Sersei. She was doing what Jon would have done. She was working exactly what she is supposed to do to prepare them for the WW invasion.

Keeping the Arya and Sansa stilted and flat to avoid repetitiveness of Jon and Sansa's straightforward happiness does make sense, but I'd have taken repetitiveness over such a flat scene. And it was different in other ways: The setting with the Winterfell crypt vs. Castle Black, the pair being more calm and safe rather than Sansa having just fled for her life to Jon, more intimate rather than everyone watching. Adding some music and more emotion wouldn't have made it a replica of Jon and Sansa, if anything it felt repetitive of the awkward Bran and Sansa hug. But it seems the writers wasted their big emotional reunion on a relationship that didn't really matter before that moment.You're right it made sense as part of the story arc, but not for the characters themselves. If Jon and Sansa could throw aside their childhood issues for an overjoyed reunion then there's no reason Arya and Sansa couldn't. But it's a needs of the out-of-universe vs. in-universe logic popping up. 

That's a nice interpretation of the "do I have to call you Lady Stark" line, it just would have been good to have a more honest conversation. "Hey Arya, I'm sorry I was terrible to you and backed up Joffrey when he tried to kill you and that butcher's boy" "no worries, sorry I threw food at you." (Ok, obviously not that blunt). They do have a fair bit of baggage to get through to clear the air. But again, the problem is the Jon-Sansa conversation set a standard and its frustrating Arya-Sansa didn't live up to it. But anyway. 

I think the perception of Sansa as power-hungry probably comes from the writers and Sophie Turner constantly casting doubt about Sansa's motivations and Sansa's rather dubious actions in the Battle of the Bastards last season. (Persuading Jon to start the war to rescue Rickon and then admitting at the eleventh hour that he was dead the moment Ramsay got hold of him which meant she lied all along. The whole not telling Jon about the Vale fiasco which again was the writers putting in shock value over characterization). And there are a lot of weird moments this season where you can't tell what she's thinking or she looks unhappy about her siblings which seem to be deliberate. Then there's the context that Sansa did have a difficult relationship with Arya and Jon as kids and isolated/bullied them, while Arya/Jon/Bran all seemed close and affectionate. But all that does get exaggerated in comparison to Sansa's obviously good actions like worrying about feeding people, encouraging Jon and offering Bran Winterfell. 

I don't think Sansa is going dark and, but I think there's more discussion simply because her motivations are more ambiguous and complex. (Which I think is deliberate and probably another reason she didn't have a honest conversation with Arya and their reunion was tense). Cersei and to a certain extent Dany, are acting a lot less sympathetically, but we know what their motivations are. (Power, conquest, making her enemies suffer in Cersei’s case). We don't really with Sansa and so there's more to talk about.  

[The Bastard of Summer]

I think the Jon Sansa reunion was so emotional because they regardless of their lack of previous interactions it was sooooo good to see a familiar FAMILY face. Bran the Unfeeling I get it.....not much to say there. But the Arya /Sansa reunion was tense. And regardless of their long time apart because of their history it wasn't as emotional. They love each other sure. But from personal experience I have two sisters and one we get on just fine. But there other we have those tense moments. And we are often guarded towards each other. But we don't love each other any less. It's just the tension keeps certain emotions at bay. So i totally understood the scene.

[SansaJonRule]

1 hour ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think part of the reason Sansa & Jon's reunion was so emotional is because both of them had just been through a bunch of crap & Jon actually died. They face their own kin for the first time in forever. To have a sibling standing in front of you after all that time would have to be overwhelming. 

As far as Arya & Sansa I didn't find it anticlimactic at all. They acted like I would have expected them to act I guess. Awkward & happy. I'm more looking forward to the Jon/Arya reunion though. That should be good. 

I agree about Sansa & Jon.  They had both been through hell and at that point didn't know if any of their other siblings were even alive.  It was kind of a THANK GOD moment.

Sansa & Arya's reunion went just as I thought it should and I liked it.  Sansa was clearly happy to hear Arya was home.  But they were always polar opposites and didn't get along at all when they were younger.  Sansa is not sure what to expect so she is cautious (and probably didn't want to be let down after the way her reunion with Bran went) as is Arya.  Arya tests Sansa by asking if she has to call her Lady Stark and although Sansa says yes, she laughs afterward.  They continue to size each other up and then end with a big sister hug.  BTW, I have to disagree with the member who said Sansa owed Arya an apology for being so mean when they were kids.  Arya was not exactly an innocent angel.  Remember the sheep shit in the mattress story and Arya shooting peas at Sansa during the feast?

Bran and Sansa vs. Bran and Arya - I thought it was due to what Meera said.  I don't even necessarily think he's recovering.  He's just learning to pretend. 

As far as Sansa getting darker, she has been a little more every season since LF took her out of KL.  And why wouldn't she?  For 5 seasons she has been emotionally and physically abused, manipulated and betrayed.  She has had to learn to be calculating and sometimes cold in order to survive.  But not against her family.  And in season 1 she was a selfish brat, but too immature to forsee the consequences of her actions.  She just wanted the fairy tale life she had always dreamed of.  She was shallow and immature, but not dark or wicked.  I don't think her character was that deep in the beginning.

[LadyFitzRandolph]

I liked the Sansa and Arya reunion for the most part. About the Lady Stark thing wasn't there something in the books similar when Arya was thinking about her? I don't know. I get confused now between the show and books!

When Jon and Sansa reunited I felt like it was almost a physical reaction from Sansa after the trauma of the whole fleeing through the snow thing. She literally ran into the arms of a strong man who physically resembles her father, even putting her face on Jon's fur collar. I think she felt physically safe with her big brother for the first time in a long time. 

[Lothar]

Sansa and Arya's reunion was okay.  A bit disappointing because it should have been at least what Sansa/Jon was.  But I was still happy to see it.  It could have been better. It could have been a lot worse.  

It was stupid that they had them start off with a joke line about calling her Lady Sansa.  That's a starting line if they had been separated a month from each other, not as long as they have.  I also hate that Arya didn't return the first hug much.  But after that, it got better, and it got touching.  It ended up being satisfying and sweet.

I hope they'll be closer in the future and they don't try to do any tension between them.  

7 out of 10 from what could have been.

 

[Banjo]

10 hours ago, Risto said:

Honestly, I was rather calm when I first answered you. Yes, you can see that I like Sansa as a character. So what? You are right, we all see things differently. It is my opinion that your views on Sansa are completely wrong. You think otherwise... Plain and simple.

I think GRRM making Sansa lose her direwolf first up is very telling. Also the fact that when a fan asked him if that means she is losing her Starkness, GRRM replied he is very perceptive. Sansa was always made up to be betraying the other Starks. She has already betrayed her sister and father (Lying about the Jofferey incident and running to Cersei to tell Ned's plans.). She is likely to betray Jon too IMO

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, Banjo said:

I think GRRM making Sansa lose her direwolf first up is very telling. Also the fact that when a fan asked him if that means she is losing her Starkness, GRRM replied he is very perceptive. Sansa was always made up to be betraying the other Starks. She has already betrayed her sister and father (Lying about the Jofferey incident and running to Cersei to tell Ned's plans.). She is likely to betray Jon too IMO

Well, I think what GRRM wanted with Sansa is to make her lose herself. With the death of Lady, she lost a very important piece of herself, a piece that would protect her and perhaps make her more keen to the dangers. After Lady's death, she was lost, but her entire story is about regaining that sense of togetherness and unity. Throughout the books we have seen her drawing strength from the memory of her family, we have seen her, during her wedding, demonstrating her own Starkness (as Tyrion showed, "you could have bent your Stark knees). The snow castle scene in the books (and in the show) is one of THE most beautiful scene filled with nostalgia and love. I don't think Sansa was made up to betray her family. I believe Sansa progressed to be one of the key elements that will actually restore Starks and unite them. 

[shawnpmcd]

15 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Sorry but you are wrong, Sansa told her siblings about the true nature of LF in the weirwood scene, I keep hearing "betrayal" but I see nothing in the show

My pt in starting this thread is I wonder if Bran's lack of hugging Sansa whilst hugging Arya is due to Bran seeing a future where Sansa betrays her siblings in some meaningful way.  They made a point to show Bran embracing Arya.    Time will tell.

[Future Null Infinity]

1 hour ago, shawnpmcd said:

Sansa betrays her siblings in some meaningful way

What is this meaningful way if Sansa told them who is really LF, if she will betray them why she warned them about LF, I don't see any logic in your statement.

1 hour ago, shawnpmcd said:

Bran's lack of hugging Sansa whilst hugging Arya

I don't know, I must rewatch the episode even it was exactly the same thing for me, maybe making assumption that Sansa will betray the starks because of a different hug flew over my head, I don't know

 

Quote

Time will tell

Every time someone tell us about the betrayal, I'm keeping waiting this "betrayal" since season 6, every time I tell someone to give a scene that Sansa will betray the starks he tells me "Time will tell" and now the season and show is at its end but the same answer "Time will tell', I don't know when the time will tell

half of the earth read the leaks, there is not betrayal