What's the current military stats for both sides?

[cade]

2 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

This is the same type of yo yo numbers Danys fleet has.  Lost her iron born fleet, lost another fleet transporting grey worm and his army but still has enough sitting around to ship tens of thousands of Dothraki.

Those losses were but a tiny fraction of her overall fleet. It was stated in Meereen that Yara's fleet only had 100 ships, and maybe another 100 were lost at Casterly Rock. Daario said probably over 1000 ships would be needed to carry the Dothraki, Unsullied and Second Sons (of which there were only 2,000 or so, so it didn't make much difference that they stayed behind).

[TheRevanchist]

9 hours ago, Paid Debt Lannister said:

Doesn't matter. Cersei will buy the Golden Company with the plot device gold she just got and her forces will be superior to Daenerys'. It is known.

Golden Company is 10k strong in the books (half of them follow Aegon). Even if they make it twice as big, and all of them are bought by Cersei, it still won't be superior to Daenerys' Dothraki, let alone the three nuclear weapons she has.

[aryagonnakill#2]

Id say that most people on here are trying to get way to technical.  I think the Lannister army for all intensive purposes was just defeated and that any Reach lords who were with the Lannisters were defeated along with them.  The Lannisters will hold Kings Landing, and Euron will still have the strongest force at sea since he seems to not even loose a single ship in both engagements.

Dany will now hold the Reach and be reconnected with her Unsullied which control the Westerlands.  She should still have a ton of Dothraki.  One problem she may face is that she seems to have roasted all of the food that was gathered in the Reach and for narrative purposes that may turn into all the food.

[TheRevanchist]

4 hours ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Need to watch again but had the impression that Jaime was with the Gold  and took some and gave to Bronn, then they camped and there was the attack. Did I miss something?

 

add: it make not sense why the gold would go alone and not with them (specially because the wagon is slow...) were they going to CR?

Scene of Jaime giving the gold to Bronn was just outside of Highgarden, the scene where Dany attacked was apparently near Kingslanding. You can expect 1 week or so to have happened between the scenes.

Tarly clearly said that the gold reached Kingslanding.

[TheRevanchist]

5 hours ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

Thronecast the UK aftershow mentioned 60k Lannister which obviously is vastly inflated concidering they have been at war for years.

Being the show they have not established how large the strenght of each region at the start of the war as the book did.  So Lannisters get a bump and Reach take a hit to balance Danys numbers.

This is the same type of yo yo numbers Danys fleet has.  Lost her iron born fleet, lost another fleet transporting grey worm and his army but still has enough sitting around to ship tens of thousands of Dothraki.

60k seems reasonable considering 10k was at the Rock leaving 40 - 50k at KL to defend against Dany and an imminent attack from Dragonstone (which never happened but still needed to be countered) rest in riverlands westerlands

60k Lannisters? How on Earth that is possible? During the war of five kings, Tywin had under his command 35k soldiers, while a cousin of him was assembling an another army. But Lannisters suffered several losses against Robb (and even Edmure), and they later fought in Kinglanding too. There shouldn't be many Lannisters left. 10k is probably too low, but there is no way that they are near 60k. I mean, the most they can have is 50k, but not after all these wars.

As far as I am aware, the strength of numbers is:

North: theoretically can go up to 35k, but during the war they had slightly more than 20k. Now, there should be less (I mean fewer) than 10k.

Riverlands: around 30k, but during the war there were just 10-15k. They are as decimated as the North.

West: 50k, during the war around 35-40k, now there should be 20-25k.

Vale: as much as the North, and they haven't fought, so they can have 20-35k.

Kingslanding: 6k gold cloaks and probably another 10-15k other soldiers from the lords nearby.

Reach: 70k, but a lot of them were killed in Blackwater and the battle at Highgarden, but still they should have 40-50k.

Stormlands: around 20-30k, most of them were killed under Stannis, so expect less than half of it.

Dorne: see Vale.
 

 

 

[elder brother jonothor dar]

14 minutes ago, TheRevanchist said:

Scene of Jaime giving the gold to Bronn was just outside of Highgarden, the scene where Dany attacked was apparently near Kingslanding. You can expect 1 week or so to have happened between the scenes.

Tarly clearly said that the gold reached Kingslanding.

They need to cross the Blackwater the gold would have been sent first hence the build.up of troops in one spot while they wait to be ferried

[King Louis II (KLII)]

46 minutes ago, TheRevanchist said:

60k Lannisters? How on Earth that is possible? During the war of five kings, Tywin had under his command 35k soldiers, while a cousin of him was assembling an another army. But Lannisters suffered several losses against Robb (and even Edmure), and they later fought in Kinglanding too. There shouldn't be many Lannisters left. 10k is probably too low, but there is no way that they are near 60k. I mean, the most they can have is 50k, but not after all these wars.

As far as I am aware, the strength of numbers is:

North: theoretically can go up to 35k, but during the war they had slightly more than 20k. Now, there should be less (I mean fewer) than 10k.

Riverlands: around 30k, but during the war there were just 10-15k. They are as decimated as the North.

West: 50k, during the war around 35-40k, now there should be 20-25k.

Vale: as much as the North, and they haven't fought, so they can have 20-35k.

Kingslanding: 6k gold cloaks and probably another 10-15k other soldiers from the lords nearby.

Vale: 70k, but a lot of them were killed in Blackwater and the battle at Highgarden, but still they should have 40-50k.

Stormlands: around 20k, most of them were killed under Stannis, so expect less than half of it.

Dorne: see Vale.
 

 

 

your second vale should be the reach....

[King Louis II (KLII)]

4 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I didnt think Randyll Tarly was a nobody to be honest, hes well respected in many fields. I dont think you understand the concept of marching in a line and transporting goods. Its as simple as the front got there first with the gold, and the back of the line were nearly there when they got attacked, they had the crops.

I did not think he was nobody, au contraire. (read my post again)..   are you implying that was Randyll that escorted the gold? 

[Samwell_Tarly]

8 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

I did not think he was nobody, au contraire. (read my post again)..   are you implying that was Randyll that escorted the gold? 

Yes you did, you said a nobody escorted the Gold, in fact it was Randyll Tarly, therefore your saying Randyll Tarly is a nobody.......

Well of course Implying that as he specifically said the Gold is through the Gates so ill go with the assumption he was there when it went through, i.e he seen it go through the gates. It doubt it was a case of Chinese whispers down the line 

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

The Tyrells had 80000 men and lost to 10000 Lannisters... It doesnt matter for D&D. They'll just rush the show and give some half assed excuse.

[Samwell_Tarly]

13 minutes ago, Ser Yorick Ampersand said:

The Tyrells had 80000 men and lost to 10000 Lannisters... It doesnt matter for D&D. They'll just rush the show and give some half assed excuse.

The tyrells did not have 80,000 men, 80,000 is the figure of the Reach, meaning Tyrell and all their banners. From what we can make out its safe to assume most,if not all abandoned the Tyrells for the Tarlys and Olenna only has maybe 5k ish

[Ser Yorick Ampersand]

51 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

The tyrells did not have 80,000 men, 80,000 is the figure of the Reach, meaning Tyrell and all their banners. From what we can make out its safe to assume most,if not all abandoned the Tyrells for the Tarlys and Olenna only has maybe 5k ish

That's a lot of banners to lose... whatever

[snow is the man]

7 hours ago, Punting on the Honeywine said:

Didn't the Lannisters start out with a good 40,000 in season 1?  So assume they have around 20,000 or up to 30,000 with some new peasant intake (Ed Sheeran)  Plus 6,000 Goldcloaks. Potentially Cersei can rally some troops in the Stormlands but they're mostly dead anyway / hate her but kind of have no one else as she is the last Baratheon...ish.

The show's logistics is completely broken but if you have to put something together you'd say that some 10k of the Lannister 30k marched to Highgarden along with say 5k Tarly men there or mustering.  Highgarden somehow didn't muster any men in advance so the Redwyne, Fossoway, Hightower men are at home, and some of the other unnamed houses who went to Kings Landing (somehow without the Tyrell matriarch or Varys knowing?) are either actively with the Lannisters (just not at Highgarden) or deliberately not doing anything, thereby ensuring a Highgarden loss.  

The Dornish army is around 20 to 25k but leaderless and somehow not in play.  The Reach has around 70k but perhaps 15 to 20 of that has followed Tarly, while perhaps 5k+ was pure Tyrell and now defeated (although how come there was no protracted siege still gripes given the defensive advantage).  That leaves around 30+k unaccounted for.

No idea how many Dothraki there are, or what they're all eating or where they are camping in Dragonstone, or even what they think of Westeros or how the smallfolk interact with them.

So in summary and using show logic:

Lannister best case:  30 (Western), 6 (Goldcloaks but generally stuck in KL), 5 (Tarly), 20 (Reach), 5 (Stormland desperados) minus 5k (just killed in episode 4) minus 5k (just dispersed / captured) minus 3k (sacrificed at Casterly Rock = 53k (plus Euron's navy)

Lannister worst case:  20 (Western), 6 (Goldcloaks), 5 (Tarly), 10 (Reach) minus 7k minus 5k minus 3k= 26k (plus Euron's navy)

Targaryen:  5 thousand Unsullied, say 50,000 Dothraki (the entire horde might not have crossed), plus Tyrion and Ser Friendzone, Theon and that guy who is always angry standing behind Theon, 50 Ironborn, and 3 dragons = 55,057.

Remaining Reach and Dornish forces:   55,000 who knows where.

Northern Forces:  8k, including Wildings? Best men all dead.

Vale forces in the North:  15k?

Vale forces in the Vale:  15k?

Riverland forces remaining:  10k not mustered.  Best men all dead.

Stormlands:  5 to 10k not mustered?  

EDIT:  Plus 20 Good Men roaming around the Dreadfort + Gendry rowing + 250 Brotherhood Without Banners 

 

the thing about old school armies is that they would often conscript peasents give them a little bit of training and send them out. So given that there are alot of peasents in lannister land so it could be around 60,000.

[SynthFG]

The Lannisters have as few or as many men as the show runners need to advance the plot 

even after last nights battle it should be clear that Danny and the Dothraki only hit the Lannister rear guard and the bulk of the troops along with the gold made it to kings landing 

[King Louis II (KLII)]

14 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Yes you did, you said a nobody escorted the Gold, in fact it was Randyll Tarly, therefore your saying Randyll Tarly is a nobody.......

Well of course Implying that as he specifically said the Gold is through the Gates so ill go with the assumption he was there when it went through, i.e he seen it go through the gates. It doubt it was a case of Chinese whispers down the line 

I wrote, why to send a nobody when you have Bronn and the Tarlys... read again. I don't think in the show was clear that was Tarly HIMSELF that escorted the wagon

 

[Raven Banner]

On 7/8/2017 at 0:25 PM, falcotron said:

On 7/8/2017 at 0:12 PM, Raven Banner said:

Look again at the battle scene. When they are preparing for the dothraki charge, you can see soldiers with the Tarly Huntsman on their shields.

Thanks, I'll check when I rewatch, but until then I think I can just trust you.

But there weren't any last week, right?

So that implies that Tarly did raise his men, didn't bring them to attack Highgarden for some reason, but did bring them for the supply convoy.

If so, that makes sense, and I can imagine possibilities for that "some reason" (like avoiding Reach soldiers fighting Reach soldiers—not a problem for the convoy mission), but it's still another thing I wish they'd explained in 5 seconds of dialog instead of leaving us to come up with our own story.

Anyway, that means that the number of troops Tarly can offer Cersei could now be diminished reduced just as badly as the main Lannister force. Or maybe not nearly as badly, if it was only Tarly personal men, not the rest of the Reach. (And again, all assuming Tarly is still alive and free, and his people don't now hate him, and Cersei is still going to confirm him as Warden even if, say, Jaime just got captured or disappeared under Tarly's nose, and so on…)

I have rewatched episode, and in the beginning when they leave Highgarden there is the Tarly Huntsman on some of the shields. So Tarly forces were involved in that battle.

On a related topic, I think Dany will lose the next battle, because she doesn't have a skilled general. She needs a military commander and there aren't any available. 

[Samwell_Tarly]

15 minutes ago, Raven Banner said:

I have rewatched episode, and in the beginning when they leave Highgarden there is the Tarly Huntsman on some of the shields. So Tarly forces were involved in that battle.

there is.

15 minutes ago, Raven Banner said:

On a related topic, I think Dany will lose the next battle, because she doesn't have a skilled general. She needs a military commander and there aren't any available. 

ahemm yes there is.......Jorah Mormont

[Raven Banner]

1 hour ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

ahemm yes there is.......Jorah Mormont

Perhaps you are right. I also thought about Jorah Mormont. We saw him plan a campaign against the slave cities with Barristan Selmy, but we never saw him tested on a greater level before Daenaerys exiled him. If Daenarys and Jon become allies, he might lend her Yohn Royce, who is commanding the Arryns. 

[Shireen Purratheon]

16 minutes ago, Raven Banner said:

Perhaps you are right. I also thought about Jorah Mormont. We saw him plan a campaign against the slave cities with Barristan Selmy, but we never saw him tested on a greater level before Daenaerys exiled him. If Daenarys and Jon become allies, he might lend her Yohn Royce, who is commanding the Arryns. 

I don't know if Bronze Yohn is Jon's to lend out, did the knights of the Vale declare him as their king or were they just fighting a campaign? If Jon isn't their king, then he'd actually be Petyr's to lend out.

[Raven Banner]

18 minutes ago, Shireen Purratheon said:

I don't know if Bronze Yohn is Jon's to lend out, did the knights of the Vale declare him as their king or were they just fighting a campaign? If Jon isn't their king, then he'd actually be Petyr's to lend out.

The Vale declared for house Stark (unsure if the Vale support their side or took Jon for their king as well. I tend to believe the first). Petyr Paelish said that in an episode, can't remember which one. But if an united North cannot stand against the Nights King, as Jon Snow thinks, when they might support Daenaerys too have an united Westeros.