Theory about resolution of "Beast of Stone" Prophecy

[a1andrew]

20 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

First of all, welcome to Forumos. Second, I like this. Wasn't sure at first, but the more I read the more I saw that it is definitely possible. And that's even while disagreeing with the very vocal half (it's been checked, the issue is split pretty evenly) that believe Aegon is a Blackfyre. Of course we have to wait and see what everything turns out to be, but I think you've laid out a decent case for those of us who don't have one idea locked in already for the stone beast.

Another point that you might consider (apologies if you included it and I missed it somehow) is that the word beast could be used deliberately to point out that Ser Robert Strong is no longer human, despite looking human in a suit of armor.

It would be interesting if Ser Robert gets greyscale and the stone beast/stone armor gets even more literal that way. Or if Cersei herself gets greyscale (goodbye beauty!). I've wondered if Arianne joins team Aegon and learns of Jon Con's infection, I could see her finding a way to make sure Cersei is exposed. This would only be if Arianne is the YMBQ, of course. For those who think Cersei and Jaime are the Mad King's children, it would add in the wings part. After all she's the one who made the tower smoke. She's the regent for her children so far. She's really the one Dany needs to take down, not Tommen or Myrcella. Now that I've typed this out, I think you should maybe consider switching the focus from House Lannister in general to Cersei specifically.

Thanks!  I've visited the forum occasionally over the years but never joined before.  Had to get this theory out there, though.

Yeah, I'm sure a lot of people are already locked in to one interpretation or another.  Hopefully this will be remembered among those who aren't as locked in as a likely theory.  I hope we do get a definitive answer on these prophecies one way or another from Martin. 

Yes, Cersei is really who I have in mind more than anyone.  I guess Cersei would be a. and Tommen b. for me. 

I like your thoughts on Strong, especially the "no longer human" part. 

As far as Aegon being a Blackfyre, I've historically been more inclined to side with you in holding that he's not a Blackfyre or a fraud in general, but have kinda given up that opposition (although I wouldn't mind being wrong).  I was very torn on that, mainly because of one major problem with it (also relating to House of Undying), but I have a theory on how everything makes sense.  I think I'll post a new thread on that shortly.

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I don't understand the argument that the Reach is at Euron's mercy as soon as he controls the sea. The Reach is a landbased kingdom. Only the Arbor has need of sea access. That's why the Redwynnes have such a large fleet. The rest of the Reach can ignore Euron as long as he sticks to the sea. He has to threaten the interior to make them even consider bending the knee to him. And he has nowhere near enough men to do that. I don't see the Hightowers swearing their strength to him just because he defeats the Redwynne fleet.

The wealth of Oldtown is based on the international trade. If Euron controls the seas around Oldtown that will be over. He can ruin the merchants and traders there, and by extension House Hightower itself. And the same goes for all the other Reach lords whose wealth is rooted in trade. Many of the people and lords living close to the coasts and along the banks of the Honeywine will have more than a hand in the food trade, exporting goods to Essos and elsewhere.

You have to keep in mind how many ships the Redwynes actually have. How large they are, and how many men man them. Those will all be gone after that battle if it goes as favorable for Euron as we think it will.

Rebuilding such fleet will be hugely expensive. I guess both the Redwynes and the Hightowers technically have the money and resources to begin such a rebuild, just as the Tyrells have the power to retake the Shields. But that's going to take time. And without the Redwyne fleet the sea and the coasts of the Reach belong to Euron now. He can do whatever he wants. Sack and raid whatever coastal regions and (undefended) harbor he wants. That is going to destroy the very basis of life of the people there. They will want it to end. And if it is to be accomplished by their betters bending the knee then that's what those men will do.

They might still begin rebuilding their fleet but in the meantime Euron will have the upper hand. And they will acknowledge this. Those are all pragmatic men.

The Hightowers and other Reach lords paid tribute to the Ironborn in ancient times, they can do that again. And it is not that this is going to have all that much impact on their daily lives anyway. They are paying taxes to the Iron Throne. They would stop that and pay taxes to the Ironborn instead. 

Sure, if Euron doesn't sweeten the deal and insist on abducting women, etc. things may not work out. But he is smart. He knows how to manipulate people. And it is not that the Hightowers and the other Reach lords owe anything to Tommen and the Lannisters. They essentially abandoned them to the Ironborn. That means they can turn their back on them just fine.

I don't think the Tyrells and the other more northern lords will give in so easily but the men closer to the coast will. Especially those who hear and/or witness the destruction of the Redwyne fleet. It will be a Field of Fire without dragons.

3 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

I agree with your assessment, but feel Euron has to win.  To reconcile these beliefs I have come up with this. 

Euron defeats the Redwyn and Hightower fleets.  People seem to forget the Hightower fleet will be involved as well.

Garlan, thinking that Euron is about to be or has just been defeated at sea chooses this opportunity to try and retake the shields.  He does this using river barges and the like, non military vessels.  Euron being victorious and able to predict this comes down on Garlans fleet and destroys it, Garlan is killed by Harlaw with Nightfall.

Euron then has his men carry their longships overland to the Honeywine, where they sail down to Oldtown avoiding all the seafacing defenses and taking them by surprise.

In light of the fact that Euron has revealed he doesn't give shit about the Shields and the morons holding them in his name there is no chance that he'll raise so much as a finger to help them. The Tyrells will retake them, all right, and that's going to keep them occupied while Euron is doing other things.

And it is not that the Tyrells and the other Reach lords along the Mander have no proper ships. They just don't have enough ships without the Redwyne fleet to actually challenge the fleets of the Ironborn at sea. And that's they have to do to get them out of their waters permanently. Retaking the Shields should be an easy task. Just get your ships across to the islands and retake the castle. Once you have a powerful enough contingent of men there they will hold the islands and the castles both until the Ironborn return in force. Which they never will, apparently.

And in general - if Euron is to become a real threat he has to win allies on the mainland and gain a foothold there. Cersei will join him eventually but the Reach is at his mercy when they have lost the Redwyne fleet, and even more so if Euron were to take the Arbor and make it his new seat. If they can't defeat him they have to suck up to him. And they will, especially if they also fear him. Which they will very much after the Redwyne fleet is destroyed.

We are talking about hundreds of war ships here, and thousands or possibly tens of thousands of men that are going to die.

[bent branch]

9 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

This doesn't make sense to me.  Aegon died, if Rhaegars son is TPTWP, that's Jon not Faegon.

Edit: I see from a later post of yours that you are suggesting that the vision indicates Aegon is real.  I don't see how that can be but if your locked on that opinion I guess there is no reason to discuss it.

 

9 hours ago, The Drunkard said:

It makes Dany (and the reader) aware of the PTWP prophecy and Rhaegar's interest in it. I don't think it necessarily ties into the "slayer of lies" part anymore than the other visions did (e.g. the sad wolf head man or Aerys repeating "burn them all"). 

Both of you are blowing off that scene. I will simply say that it is far more important than you think. I won't push because this is a thread about the stone beast, but I will gently suggest you reconsider your thoughts on this one little scene.

[bent branch]

3 hours ago, Makk said:

You're talking about this?

I'm not ignoring it, I'm using it and on this bit at least I am convinced you are wrong. It is showing Rhaegar has misread his prophecies (which GRRM warns us about) and not for the first time. Originally he thought he himself was the prince that was promised, then he thought it was his son Aegon, but Aegon has nothing associated with Ice. It is of course Jon and presumably Rhaegar came to realise that. Do you actually believe Aegon with the golden company is genuinely Rhaegar's son?

As for the point about the vision not being a play on words, I am not exactly sure what you are saying as you seem to be going back on what you wrote before. I agree that since we can't see what the beast looks like we have to take it GRRMs description. The bit I thought Ponzi scheme had made a good point on was the bit I bolded, I don't necessarily believe the beast is simply grey (although it could be so long as it looks like stone). What I didn't like is the stretching into an overdose of symbolism. Daenerys saw a great stone beast taking wing and breathing shadow fire. That was what was in the vision. I don't think you should be twisting every single word to come up with a match. It could still well refer to Euron, but if it does I think there will be some important event that we have not seen yet that makes the vision much clearer, because compared to the others this doesn't feel right.

The Aegon is fake crowd love to go on about how Rhaegar was "wrong" about his prophecies. Considering for the first 15 years of his life, Rhaegar was the only one fit the prophecy it isn't too surprising that he thought it might be him. At the point of Rhaegar's death the only people who could have fit the prophecy was Viserys, Rhaenys and Aegon. At this point in time the only people who could fit the prophecy are Dany, Jon and Aegon if he is alive. It is as clear as a bell that TWTWP has to be a descendent of Aerys and Rhaella. If all Three Heads of the Dragon also need to be descendants of Aerys and Rhaella, then Aegon is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Elia. The story demands it.  And in case you missed it, the original wording of the prophecy was "the dragon who is promised". Therefore, the chances are at least 50/50 that all of the heads need to be descendants of Aerys and Rhaella. Sadly, the Aegon is dead crowd choose to ignore all indications that he is not, including the vision you quoted.

It makes me very sad that vocabulary and reading comprehension are dismissed as "word games". I will try once more to explain what I was doing. GRRM wrote a description of a vision that Dany saw. He used those words to communicate what were the important elements of the vision. In order to understand what was being communicated I looked at what the words GRRM chose were. So when GRRM said, "a great stone beast" I asked myself first, what do the words mean in relation to what Dany saw. Of the 16 meanings of the word "great" I chose the meaning of the "very large" as probably the definition that GRRM was going for in the definition. What do you think he meant by the word "great"?

After establishing to myself that of the 16 possible meanings of the word "great", GRRM meant, I asked myself what is the symbolic meaning of the "very large" beast. Literal minded people think it means the person must be of a really large size. Symbolically, however this large size can be interpreted as powerful, which also happens to be a definition of great. Hmm, imagine that! Visions and words can have deeper meanings than are on the surface, while all the time staying on point!

I realize that some people are expecting something much more literal from the vision, but I explained why I think the vision has already been completed symbolically. I don't expect any more confirmation than that. GRRM expects his readers to be able to keep up.

[aryagonnakill#2]

1 hour ago, bent branch said:

 

Both of you are blowing off that scene. I will simply say that it is far more important than you think. I won't push because this is a thread about the stone beast, but I will gently suggest you reconsider your thoughts on this one little scene.

Taking a different meaning is not the same thing as blowing off.

[Lost Melnibonean]

50 minutes ago, bent branch said:

The Aegon is fake crowd love to go on about how Rhaegar was "wrong" about his prophecies. Considering for the first 15 years of his life, Rhaegar was the only one fit the prophecy it isn't too surprising that he thought it might be him. At the point of Rhaegar's death the only people who could have fit the prophecy was Viserys, Rhaenys and Aegon. At this point in time the only people who could fit the prophecy are Dany, Jon and Aegon if he is alive. It is as clear as a bell that TWTWP has to be a descendent of Aerys and Rhaella. If all Three Heads of the Dragon also need to be descendants of Aerys and Rhaella, then Aegon is indeed the son of Rhaegar and Elia. The story demands it.  And in case you missed it, the original wording of the prophecy was "the dragon who is promised". Therefore, the chances are at least 50/50 that all of the heads need to be descendants of Aerys and Rhaella. Sadly, the Aegon is dead crowd choose to ignore all indications that he is not, including the vision you quoted.

It makes me very sad that vocabulary and reading comprehension are dismissed as "word games". I will try once more to explain what I was doing. GRRM wrote a description of a vision that Dany saw. He used those words to communicate what were the important elements of the vision. In order to understand what was being communicated I looked at what the words GRRM chose were. So when GRRM said, "a great stone beast" I asked myself first, what do the words mean in relation to what Dany saw. Of the 16 meanings of the word "great" I chose the meaning of the "very large" as probably the definition that GRRM was going for in the definition. What do you think he meant by the word "great"?

After establishing to myself that of the 16 possible meanings of the word "great", GRRM meant, I asked myself what is the symbolic meaning of the "very large" beast. Literal minded people think it means the person must be of a really large size. Symbolically, however this large size can be interpreted as powerful, which also happens to be a definition of great. Hmm, imagine that! Visions and words can have deeper meanings than are on the surface, while all the time staying on point!

I realize that some people are expecting something much more literal from the vision, but I explained why I think the vision has already been completed symbolically. I don't expect any more confirmation than that. GRRM expects his readers to be able to keep up.

That is a very, very big "if." Why does the story demand it? And if the story does demand it, why do you say the chances are 50/50? 

Don't be sad. Have a peach.

[bent branch]

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

That is a very, very big "if." Why does the story demand it? And if the story does demand it, why do you say the chances are 50/50? 

Don't be sad. Have a peach.

It is not that big of an if. Here is a section of text from AFFC-Chapter 35:

Quote

On Bravos, it had seemed possible that Aemon might recover. Xhondo's talk of dragons has almost seemed to restore the old man to himself. That night he ate every bite Sam put before him. "No one ever looked for a girl," he said. "It was a prince that was promised, not a princess. Rhaegar, I thought ... the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. What fools we were, who had thought ourselves to wise! The error crept in from the translation. Dragons are neither male nor female, Barth saw the truth of that, but now one and now the other, as changeable as flame. The language misled us all for a thousand years. Daenerys is the one, born admidst salt and smoke. The dragons prove it." Just talking of her seemed to make him stronger. "I must go to her. I must. Would that I was even ten years younger."

What Aemon is saying here is that the prophecy originally said, "The dragon that was promised". So, is it the dragon with three heads? There is no more reason to think that it is than it isn't, so that is 50/50. There is also the question of what exactly the woodswitch was prophesizing. Was she seeing just one individual or was she seeing something more abstract. We have a good idea how the woods witch's vision works since she is the ghost of high heart. With prophecies it cannot be said with certainty which interpretation is correct, but in this case it is equally likely that all three heads of the dragon must be descended from Aerys and Rhaella. And unless you can name another descendant of both of them, Aegon must be Rhaegar and Elia's son.

Thank you. Nom!

[Damon_Tor]

6 hours ago, Wolf of The Wall said:

I am not saying genetics is irrelevant. I am saying real world principals of inheritance such as light skin/light hair is reccessive dark skin/dark hair is dominant is not applicable is asoiaf. Let's look at presented interracial couples shall we:

Daeron II Good & Myriah Martell: Only one (Baelor Breakspear) of their children has Rhoynish features others have distinct Valyrian features.

Rhaegar Targaryen & Elia Martell: Rhaenys has Rhoynish features but Aegon has Valyrian features. So we can safely say Valyrian genes is dominant when they paired with Rhoynish ones.

Viserys I Targaryen & Aemma Arryn later Alicent Hightower: Their children also have distinct Valyrian features and i don't remember distinctively Andal looking king so i assume Valyrian genes dominant when paired with Andal genes too.

Aegon the Unworthy & Melissa Blackwood: They had three children but we only know Bloodraven's appearance and he is an albino.

Aegon the Unlikely & Betha Blackwood: Among their children only Duncan had dark hair rest of them all Valyrian looking. Also after generations of intermarrying with Andals how much First Men blood remain in Blackwoods is arguable.

Rhaegar Targaryen & Lyanna Stark: They had only one child. And Jon looks more Stark then Targaryen. So Valyrian genes when compared to the First Men i think is inconclusive. We don't have enogh data to say anything conclusive.

We don't have enough data for any of it; the existence of the Daynes adds the possibility that Valyrian-like genes were scattered around the south of Westeros before the Targaryens even took up residence at Dragonstone. The Arryns had definitely already taken Targaryens as wives before Aemma married back into the line. We don't know enough about the Blackwood ancestry to say for sure what's going on with them, but we have at least one story about a Blackwood and a Bracken killing each other for the hand of a Targaryen girl, so it stands to reason it was possible. At the end of the day, a pair of mixed parents can't prove anything: a sample size of two is meaningless.

The only concrete proof of a recessive trait is if the phenotype in question can emerge from two parents without that phenotype. As far as I know we've never had two Valyrian-looking parents produce a dark-haired child (apart from the children of Laenor Velaryon, an exception well explained) but we haven't had a pair of dark-haired parents produce Valyrian-looking offspring either. Dark-haired Targaryens always have a dark-haired parent, which means there's zero evidence the trait is dominant (but nor do we have evidence to the contrary).

But who knows. Others have noticed a pattern that the non-Targaryen wives of Targaryen men will tend to have exactly one non-Valyrian-looking child followed by a number of children who are entirely Valyrian-looking. I would argue this has more to do with humans being famously bad at randomizing things and instead reverting to patterns (GRRM being a human) but there's a hypothesis that the mother's genes are somehow modified during that first pregnancy to ensure she fails to express her genes in favor of the Valryian phenotypes. I think that's a bit silly, but I concede that it isn't impossible.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, bent branch said:

What Aemon is saying here is that the prophecy originally said, "The dragon that was promised". So, is it the dragon with three heads? There is no more reason to think that it is than it isn't, so that is 50/50. There is also the question of what exactly the woodswitch was prophesizing. Was she seeing just one individual or was she seeing something more abstract. We have a good idea how the woods witch's vision works since she is the ghost of high heart. With prophecies it cannot be said with certainty which interpretation is correct, but in this case it is equally likely that all three heads of the dragon must be descended from Aerys and Rhaella. And unless you can name another descendant of both of them, Aegon must be Rhaegar and Elia's son.

It is certainly a compelling argument but you're overlooking one problem: unlike the PTWP prophecy, which comes from, say, reliable sources, we have no idea where the saying about the three dragon heads comes from and what requirements need to be fulfilled. The original triplet were siblings, one male and two females, who were all married. Are these factors somehow important? We don't know, but Rhaegar seemed to think that his two children and Viserys did not constitute three heads for some reason, even though they were all from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.

Also, one problem: if Aegon is the real deal, is he supposed to be PTWP? He doesn't seem to possess any special powers, he is far behind in achievements, the role of a secret prince is already occupied, so what is he going to bring to the story? He could still be the third dragon head, though not PTWP, if he was a Blackfyre.

[The Sleeper]

@bent branch If any one of the three heads of the dragon is a descendant of Aerys and Rhaella the prophecy qualifies.

[bent branch]

23 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

It is certainly a compelling argument but you're overlooking one problem: unlike the PTWP prophecy, which comes from, say, reliable sources, we have no idea where the saying about the three dragon heads comes from and what requirements need to be fulfilled. The original triplet were siblings, one male and two females, who were all married. Are these factors somehow important? We don't know, but Rhaegar seemed to think that his two children and Viserys did not constitute three heads for some reason, even though they were all from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.

Also, one problem: if Aegon is the real deal, is he supposed to be PTWP? He doesn't seem to possess any special powers, he is far behind in achievements, the role of a secret prince is already occupied, so what is he going to bring to the story? He could still be the third dragon head, though not PTWP, if he was a Blackfyre.

Actually, you are the one over looking something and it is in your post. You say we have no idea where the three dragon heads comes from. This is actually true. Then you say "the original triplet". If we don't know where the three heads comes from, how do you know the prophecy was made in reference to the sigil chosen by Aegon and his sisters or if Aegon and his sisters chose the sigil because of the prophecy? Since there is no way of knowing (and I've looked for years) it is 50/50 whether the three heads of the prophecy is in reference to the original dragon prophecy or one after the sigil was adopted. Therefore, it is 50/50 whether all three heads of the dragon need to have the same background.

As I have said, Aegon need only be the son of Rhaegar and Elia if he is needed to help fulfill prophecy. There is no compelling reason for him to be real or fake if he isn't needed for a prophecy in some capacity.

[bent branch]

6 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

@bent branch If any one of the three heads of the dragon is a descendant of Aerys and Rhaella the prophecy qualifies.

How do you know that?

[The Sleeper]

8 minutes ago, bent branch said:

How do you know that?

Logic? It doesn't sound like any of the heads are optional and any one of them could be described as the prince that was promised. The requirement for Aerys and Rhaela to breed stands whether it is one head or three who are their descendants.

 

[bent branch]

40 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Logic? It doesn't sound like any of the heads are optional and any one of them could be described as the prince that was promised. The requirement for Aerys and Rhaela to breed stands whether it is one head or three who are their descendants.

 

So it is just your opinion. Understood.

[The Sleeper]

11 minutes ago, bent branch said:

So it is just your opinion. Understood.

Not really. Whether the ghost meant one head of the dragon or all three, or if she didn't know the difference at all, the prophecy applies. There is no way to tell.

If it is any indication, Dany did wake dragons from stone under the bleeding star. No other character has done anything like that. On the other hand she seems unlikely to wield a sword. So not all prophesies may apply to all three heads.

[Ygrain]

1 hour ago, bent branch said:

Actually, you are the one over looking something and it is in your post. You say we have no idea where the three dragon heads comes from. This is actually true. Then you say "the original triplet". If we don't know where the three heads comes from, how do you know the prophecy was made in reference to the sigil chosen by Aegon and his sisters or if Aegon and his sisters chose the sigil because of the prophecy? Since there is no way of knowing (and I've looked for years) it is 50/50 whether the three heads of the prophecy is in reference to the original dragon prophecy or one after the sigil was adopted. Therefore, it is 50/50 whether all three heads of the dragon need to have the same background.

As I have said, Aegon need only be the son of Rhaegar and Elia if he is needed to help fulfill prophecy. There is no compelling reason for him to be real or fake if he isn't needed for a prophecy in some capacity.

But I never claimed that the three dragon heads had anything to do with any prophecy.  Did Aegon, Visenya and Rhaenys choose it because it sounded cool, or did it have a deeper meaning? The number three does seem to have some significance - Dany hatched three dragons, just Aegon had three, and the sun originally had two moon wives, Dany is a child of three, her prophecies come in triplets...

However, I'd be very careful in trying to interpret who qualifies as the three heads. For example, Jon is Rhaegar's third child, Dany is the third child of Aerys and Rhaella, could this matter in some way? Would it be possible to actually receive two outcomes for the prophecy, depending on who is trying to make it come true? With the two competing powers that Mel sees, uncertainty if AA is indeed the good guy of the story and prophecies not necessarily being what people think...

BTW, no new PoVs. Why does the third head has no PoV? 

18 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

Not really. Whether the ghost meant one head of the dragon or all three, or if she didn't know the difference at all, the prophecy applies. There is no way to tell.

To my best knowledge, she spoke only about PTWP, no dragon heads.

18 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

If it is any indication, Dany did wake dragons from stone under the bleeding star.

But those are two separate bits - bleeding star was to be a sign of AA's rebirth. Was Dany reborn at that moment? Symbolically perhaps, surviving the fire, but I wouldn't take it for sure.

18 minutes ago, The Sleeper said:

No other character has done anything like that. On the other hand she seems unlikely to wield a sword. So not all prophesies may apply to all three heads.

That is a good point. There is nothing icy about Dany, either, unless possible future sex with Jon could be described as a "song of ice and fire".

[The Sleeper]

52 minutes ago, Ygrain said:

To my best knowledge, she spoke only about PTWP, no dragon heads.

But those are two separate bits - bleeding star was to be a sign of AA's rebirth. Was Dany reborn at that moment? Symbolically perhaps, surviving the fire, but I wouldn't take it for sure.

That is a good point. There is nothing icy about Dany, either, unless possible future sex with Jon could be described as a "song of ice and fire".

The stipulation is that the "dragon has three heads" means that the prince that was promised or Azor Ahai, is actually three individuals and it derives from maester Aemon implying that "dragon" and "prince" is the same in Valyrian.

 

[Faereth]

18 hours ago, aryagonnakill#2 said:

 

I don't remember Bran waking up that night tho.  He didn't wake up until Catlyn had left WF.

Ah yes you are quite right. My mistake sorry. 

[bent branch]

3 hours ago, The Sleeper said:

Not really. Whether the ghost meant one head of the dragon or all three, or if she didn't know the difference at all, the prophecy applies. There is no way to tell.

If it is any indication, Dany did wake dragons from stone under the bleeding star. No other character has done anything like that. On the other hand she seems unlikely to wield a sword. So not all prophesies may apply to all three heads.

Actually it is just your opinion. I'm sorry if I seem sharp, but this is an issue that I have been working on since before coming to the forums. It is the reason I started coming to the forums. I have figured out that there are at least three different prophecies from three different time depths that are being referenced throughout the books. Figuring out which of these three prophecies the "dragon has three heads" is attached to is actually really important.

There are already indications that parts of the oldest prophecy is talking about more than one person even it is being treated as one person, Azor Ahai. I will give you two examples:

Quote

"When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons from stone."

Quote

"In ancient books of Asshai it is written that there will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

In these two examples, both of the prophesied are called Azor Ahai, as if they are one person. However, notice that in the first example the darkness is gathering. In other words, the dark night has not yet begun. The bleeding star (a comet) appears and it is still summer. Dany walks into Drogo's funeral pyre and walks out as the reborn mother of dragons. Accordingly Dany is Azor Ahai. The first prophecy doesn't say that Azor Ahai needs to then do something else, it is already done.

However, Melisandre (and many readers) think there is something else that needs to happen because of the second quote. Mel thinks Azor Ahai must do all of the things. But let's look at the second quote. Notice that in this prophecy the happens after summer is over. Also, the stars (plural) bleed, so rather than a comet it appears to be a meteor shower. And it appears the long night has begun. In this instance the warrior shall draw a burning sword from a fire, and then that person will be Azor Ahai.

There is definitely two different people being talked about here, but they are both being called Azor Ahai. Does Azor Ahai mean dragon in the language of the original PTWP prophecy? I don't know. What I do know is that it is important to know when the three heads of the dragon is added to this series of prophecies. It makes a difference as to whether all three need to have to be descended from Aerys and Rhaella or not.

[Damon_Tor]

10 hours ago, bent branch said:

And unless you can name another descendant of both of them, Aegon must be Rhaegar and Elia's son.

Any and all children Daenerys has will be descendants of both Aerys and Rhaella regardless of who the fathers are. There's still an entirely valid "none of the above" option on the table.