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Catspaw Dagger Belonged to Rhaegar? Aegon the Conqueror?


KingAemon

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So Little Finger claims that he lost the catspaw dagger to Tyrion. Apparently Jaimie claims that he recalls Robert Baratheon owning the blade. Robert would be the one to have Rheagar's blade as he killed him at the trident. Further, it is clear from Samwell Tarley's reading that this dagger is very old and will have strong significance going forward. It is made from dragonbone/glass, has a ruby on it, and the Targaryans decorated there blades with this for hundreds/thousands of years. What do you think? And if Rhaegar did own it (very possible it was his), who do you think created it?

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Don't recall having read or seen anything about Jaime saying Robert owned the blade before.  If so, I wonder how LF acquired it to begin with.  But I definitely feel like it was a Targ blade with the black/red/gold coloring and the ruby emblazoned on it.  We all know Valyrian steel wasn't owned soley by Targs, but the dagger having a dragon bone hilt screams Targ to me...

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On ‎8‎/‎7‎/‎2017 at 0:17 PM, KingAemon said:

So Little Finger claims that he lost the catspaw dagger to Tyrion. Apparently Jaimie claims that he recalls Robert Baratheon owning the blade. Robert would be the one to have Rheagar's blade as he killed him at the trident. Further, it is clear from Samwell Tarley's reading that this dagger is very old and will have strong significance going forward. It is made from dragonbone/glass, has a ruby on it, and the Targaryans decorated there blades with this for hundreds/thousands of years. What do you think? And if Rhaegar did own it (very possible it was his), who do you think created it?

Don't recall having read or seen anything about Jaime saying Robert owned the blade before.  If so, I wonder how LF acquired it to begin with.  But I definitely feel like it was a Targ blade with the black/red/gold coloring and the ruby emblazoned on it.  We all know Valyrian steel wasn't owned soley by Targs, but the dagger having a dragon bone hilt screams Targ to me...

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I think the blade changed hands during a bet at a tournament. before the show/books began but the only thing I can remember with certainty was that LF lied about who's it belonged to. I think it was Robert's and he wont it from Littlefinger who had won it from the Imp or something like that. I am not sure.

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1 hour ago, A Ghost of Someone said:

I think the blade changed hands during a bet at a tournament. before the show/books began but the only thing I can remember with certainty was that LF lied about who's it belonged to. I think it was Robert's and he wont it from Littlefinger who had won it from the Imp or something like that. I am not sure.

Like a bet to see who could discover the identify of the Knight of the Laughing Tree?

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1 minute ago, lakin1013 said:

Like a bet to see who could discover the identify of the Knight of the Laughing Tree?

Actually I think Tyrion lost it because he bet on Jaime at a tournament and he lost. Tyrion had once owned it but he lost it to Robert. I will have to look it up.

 

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The wiki actually has a pretty nice little write-up on this:thumbsup:

The valyrian steel dagger belonged to Littlefinger.  King Robert won the dagger from Littlefinger by betting on Loras to defeat Jaime in jousting at Joffrey's Name Day Feast tournament.  Littlefinger lied to Catelyn saying Tyrion won the dagger from him by betting against Jaime (something Tyrion would never do).  The lie was very easily believed by Catelyn due to her hatred for the Lannisters, etc.  Where Littlefinger originally got the dagger is anyone's guess.

The dagger was basically forgotten by King Robert.  But it was included with the weapons brought along in the baggage train as the King traveled to Winterfell to ask Ned to be his Hand.  Joffrey took the dagger from King Robert's things to give to the catspaw.  He did this because his father drunkenly said:

Quote

‘We kill our horses when they break a leg, and our dogs when they go blind, but we are too weak to give the same mercy to crippled children,’ ~ A Storm of Swords, chapter 72

He said this when he was alone with Cercei and the children.  Joffrey wanted to prove that he was not "too weak".

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Littlefinger has worked at customs in gull town for ling time. Maybe he got this one from foreign merchant, you know, like Qohor. Many Valyrian weapons existed in East because Valyria was there.And Qohor is specificly famous for making/reforging them. 

Rhaegar used a sword to fight Robert. Never heard that he had some famous VS dagger. But show producers might combine this dagger with dark sister for convenience. The main purpose was to give Arya a VS weapon. just like Sam got heartbane from home and Jon got longclaw from Mormont. They needed to use them to kill WW. 

now let us count. Brienne, jon, sam, arya, jaime, they all have VS weapon. interesting. 

(Dany, Bran, Tyrion and Sansa are not typical fighters) 

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Tywin commented on Robert's ownership of the blade, and how Robert likely didn't give a damn, when discussing Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail with Tyrion.  I found the quote:

"If you have need of a dagger, take one from the armory. Robert left a hundred when he died. Gerion gave him a gilded dagger with an ivory grip and a sapphire pommel for a wedding gift, and half the envoys who came to court tried to curry favor by presenting His Grace with jewel-encrusted knives and silver inlay swords...The only blade he ever used was the hunting knife he had from Jon Arryn, when he was a boy."

I doubt Robert ever gave a damn.  The guy really was simple in his desires and set in his ways, and was more sentimental than he let on.  Robert likely owned more than one Valyrian steel dagger, but as king, token displays of wealth meant nothing. Even Euron made gifts of a few daggers at the Kingsmoot. The idea that Robert took a souvenir off Rhaegar's dead body is downright preposterous. 

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16 hours ago, LindsayLohan said:

Tywin commented on Robert's ownership of the blade, and how Robert likely didn't give a damn, when discussing Oathkeeper and Widow's Wail with Tyrion.  I found the quote:

"If you have need of a dagger, take one from the armory. Robert left a hundred when he died. Gerion gave him a gilded dagger with an ivory grip and a sapphire pommel for a wedding gift, and half the envoys who came to court tried to curry favor by presenting His Grace with jewel-encrusted knives and silver inlay swords...The only blade he ever used was the hunting knife he had from Jon Arryn, when he was a boy."

I doubt Robert ever gave a damn.  The guy really was simple in his desires and set in his ways, and was more sentimental than he let on.  Robert likely owned more than one Valyrian steel dagger, but as king, token displays of wealth meant nothing. Even Euron made gifts of a few daggers at the Kingsmoot. The idea that Robert took a souvenir off Rhaegar's dead body is downright preposterous. 

I don't know if it's that preposterous at all.  Robert was known to like trophies of war.  Hence him keeping the dragon skulls below the Red Keep as opposed to destroying them.  I could definitely see Robert taking something off of an enemy he just got done slaying. 

In this case, I don't think that is where the dagger came from though,, as Robert got it from LF in the bet, so LF had it before Robert...

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7 hours ago, Jaehaerys Stark said:

I don't know if it's that preposterous at all.  Robert was known to like trophies of war.  Hence him keeping the dragon skulls below the Red Keep as opposed to destroying them.  I could definitely see Robert taking something off of an enemy he just got done slaying. 

In this case, I don't think that is where the dagger came from though,, as Robert got it from LF in the bet, so LF had it before Robert...

That doesn't make any sense.  Robert has zero trophies of war.  He took the skulls out of the Red Keep and locked them in a sub-level for storage.  Just because he didn't have them blown up or smashed to pieces doesn't mean he viewed them as trophies.  Robert hasn't shown any vanity when it comes to wealth of physical possessions, ever.  I think the only trophy he ever wanted was Lyanna Stark.  He dresses like a slob, only uses weapons and tools from his youth, and doesn't care about his physical appearance.  He hates the Iron Throne, even. 

The idea of him looting a corpse is ridiculous, even Rhaegar.  Robert might stop to piss on it, but he wouldn't want anything that belonged to Rhaegar, ever.

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On ‎8‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 7:17 PM, LindsayLohan said:

That doesn't make any sense.  Robert has zero trophies of war.  He took the skulls out of the Red Keep and locked them in a sub-level for storage.  Just because he didn't have them blown up or smashed to pieces doesn't mean he viewed them as trophies.  Robert hasn't shown any vanity when it comes to wealth of physical possessions, ever.  I think the only trophy he ever wanted was Lyanna Stark.  He dresses like a slob, only uses weapons and tools from his youth, and doesn't care about his physical appearance.  He hates the Iron Throne, even. 

The idea of him looting a corpse is ridiculous, even Rhaegar.  Robert might stop to piss on it, but he wouldn't want anything that belonged to Rhaegar, ever.

it's actually said on the show by Cersei to Qyburn when he is showing her the Scorpion.  She tells him that Robert kept them down there as trophies, and that he even used to take ladies down there to show them off...

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just bumping this up, since there have been no replies.  Is that, or is that not the catspaw dagger on Rhaegar's right hip, in the wedding scene in

Ep 7, Season 7?  There is a sword on the other hip, which suggests that what he wears on the other side is only dagger length. Let me know what you think!

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40 minutes ago, CuriousMind said:

or is that not the catspaw dagger on Rhaegar's right hip, in the wedding scene in

My guess would be "no". The catspaw dagger has a curved handle tapering off while the Rhaegar dagger seems to have a spherical top without any noticable curvature.

But yes, it might be the dagger anyway. 

https://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/gameofthrones/images/f/fc/Catspaw_dagger_in_Cripples%2C_Bastards%2C_and_Broken_Things.png/revision/latest?cb=20170723083605

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Thanks for checking, Kajjo!  I thought I saw some curvature in a different angle, but have no photo.  Would be interesting, though.  And it would go with there being a drawing of the knife near the page in the book where Sam found the "mountain of dragon glass" text and picture. In other words, it's Valyrian, and near a Dragonstone picture - hence, it would go with it belonging to a Targaryan.  Doesn't seem to be the same style as Westoros blades - more like Essos blades (like Daario's, for instance).  Anyway, appreciate the chance to discuss!

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