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One thing I don't get about the Dany/Lannister thing


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17 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Well, Dany is the leader of a horde of people whose avowed aim in life is to rape and pillage everyone they deem weak, so I don't think either side wins any points there. I wouldn't call the "Field of Fire 2.0" a "fair field battle" either (dragons + a surprise attack on a marching column...), but then any commander worth the title would do their utmost to seek unfair battles, with the advantage going to them, of course. Can't blame Dany for that part of it, it's just ineptness on the part of the Lannister army for not employing outriders, scouts or anything of the sort.

Whether bad writing or butchered characterization since Randyll Tarly is supposed to be a master tactician I don't know, but then again everyone in the show seems to have learned tactics by playing Warcraft, so what can you expect.

Being ambushed is not unfair. It's their fault on lacking intel. Also they knew she has dragons. It's their choice to face these dragons. They keep faith in Qyburn's work also, partially that worked. 

Euron did exactly the same in episode 2. But, he won fair and square, if you ask me. He attacked soldiers, not civillians and hell he even spared Theon's and Yara's life (this is 99% for strategic/mind games reasons but whatever).

Tarly's character as you also well noticed is sacrificed already because they don't bother with anyone but Cercei, Jaime, Tyrion, Daenerys and Jon on the long run. You see that even Sansa, Arya, Bran have some sort of contradictive, unfathomable behavior. What we know about Randyll went to toilet. He is not supposed to be a turncloak also, since day one we know about him being loyal bannerman to house Tyrell. But, he sold himself out after a minute of persuasion. Now he is just a bit above Roose Bolton, Walder Frey etc., which is unfair to the likes of him, a narrow man, but a capable fighter and a loyal vassal.

You're right about the Dothraki. Yet so far, Daenerys keeps them in check, like with the Ironborn faction that joined her. We'll see if that stays that way. 

Showrunners reduced Wildlings to few thousand people, with half uncapable of fighting because they didn't want to bother on how would they adapt in life in Westeros in bigger numbers. They can easily apply the same recipe on Dothraki. Majority may die fighting Lannisters and Others so just a few hundreds remain, surely not capable of raiding and plundering bigtime, so they'd have to adapt and be loyal Westerosi, rather than have a choice.

The time the show has is running out, so they make literally every part of story other than the main, not that important.

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3 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Being ambushed is not unfair. It's their fault on lacking intel. Also they knew she has dragons. It's their choice to face these dragons. They keep faith in Qyburn's work also, partially that worked. 

Of course it is unfair. Nothing wrong with doing it though. Equally, having dragons when your opponents have none is monstrously (pun intended) unfair, too, but again nothing wrong with that. War is not supposed to be fair - if you want fair (ish) go have a jousting tournament!

6 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Euron did exactly the same in episode 2. But, he won fair and square

Aye, absolutely. Euron is a sadistic asshole, but you can't blame him for taking advantage of whatever, well, advantage he can conjure up, including springing a surprise on his opponents.

8 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

What we know about Randyll went to toilet.

Yup, only thing that seemed in character was his desire to flog the stragglers.

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13 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Of course it is unfair. Nothing wrong with doing it though. Equally, having dragons when your opponents have none is monstrously (pun intended) unfair, too, but again nothing wrong with that. War is not supposed to be fair - if you want fair (ish) go have a jousting tournament!

Aye, absolutely. Euron is a sadistic asshole, but you can't blame him for taking advantage of whatever, well, advantage he can conjure up, including springing a surprise on his opponents.

Yup, only thing that seemed in character was his desire to flog the stragglers.

Well I can't agree more with this reply of yours. 

 

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I think one of the major points of show/books is there are no good v bad characters. Everybody is somewhere in between. Dany used dragons to defeat an army but then destroyed the harvest so the city will starve when winter comes. Good she didn't melt people in the city. Bad cos they will starve instead if the city is put under siege. After that battle it looks like the Lannister army took heavy damage, but many were already in the city with the gold. Drogon can be killed with the scorpion, so KL's walls will be bristling with them soon, which makes a dragon attack much more risky anyway. So it looks like a bit of a stalemate for a while there. So the people in the city will be the ones to suffer anyway.  Dany wants to rule, she justifies it by hoping the people will see me as a nice ruler. She is not about to turn around and go, oh you don't want me fair enough I'll just take my dragons to the summer isles and retire then. More like oh you don't like me, have a good look at my dragons and think again. At least with Cersei there is no pretence, I'm the Queen, if you don't like it you die. Whereas with Jon its ok I'll save the world then you can all bugger off and leave me to play with ghost.

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6 minutes ago, JRRStark said:

I think one of the major points of show/books is there are no good v bad characters

Maybe it used to be this way, but Cersei is pretty unadulterated evil at this point. The Others, too, are evil by any definition (whatever their motive they mercilessly kill everyone they see).

Jon, at this point, seems pretty firmly on the side of good, too - he's not interested in the game, he just wants humanity to survive.

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On 8/8/2017 at 10:14 PM, norwaywolf123 said:

Do you think all these men are soldiers voluntarily? The Lannister army is only called the lanniser army since it is led by House Lannister. Inside the army are many nobles who are vassals of House lannister aswell as proffesional soldiers like knights and garrisons. THe Lannister Soldiers that Arya met seemed to mostly lowborn who join for adventure and payment.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-army-idUSKCN1001PY

These men in the real world dont want to fight and are persecuted for it.

Maybe you should be given a flag on your jacket?

https://www.warhistoryonline.com/medieval/led-knights-military-leadership-hundred-years-war.html

I dont think Jon but especially Daenerys will respect social norms and provoke conflicts that will lead to bloodshed.

but what would be the alternative???  All points given and yes armies, even these days, even well paid are not necessarily there "by choice" but say if a dictator invades my country, what the fuck I am to do??? 

Okay not an exact situation but just as an analogy lol

In my mind she had two choices; go for KL and the small folk will die as casualties of war or take on only soldiers (agreed what we said about soldiers lol they are just people high and low like the rest of us but still... she has not far targetted civilians; Cercei has though...)

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What I don't get is what's the difference between burning down the Red Keep and starving King's Landing. Because Tyrion and Jon seem to think one of those things is totally evil while the other one is game. 

Oh, wait, there is a difference. Flying to the Red Keep and burning it to the ground would end the war in a single stroke with a significantly low number of casualties, while besieging King's Landing would lead to thousands of innocent civilians dying of starvation, riots, etc, and Dany being seen by the smallfolk as an evil invader. 

So...Tyrion and Jon are so fucking stupid they should go kick rocks. 

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Dany is trying, real hard, to be the shepherd, y'all. Seriously, anyone confused or questioning Dany need only watch this scene from Pulp Fiction. Dany is Jules. Westeros is Ringo.

Also, ya girl might wanna get some battle armor for the next time she rides into battle on a dragon. Just sayin'.

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44 minutes ago, Mikkel said:

Her plot armor is half a continent thick, she needs nothing else :)

I see what you did there, but it's still important for her to be a role model. How're we supposed to convince the children of Westeros to wear helmets on bicycles when she won't even wear one while riding a flying dragon? Shame!

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