Count Winter

What is Arya going to do with that knife?

78 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

12 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

Sam sees the dagger in the books and parchment at the citadel.  Anyone else think this was Rhaegar's dagger?  Apologies if that has been mentioned.  

Im curious to know why you think it belonged to Rhaegar?

Are most people  of the belief  it could potentially be Rhaegars because of the ruby? Well considering Rhaegar is of very recent history and the art if making valyrian steel was lost in Valyria. Can we assume the dagger predates Rhaegar? Who then was the very first and original owner? That is my question. That book Sam was reading that showed tbe dagger came from the resticted area. I think its safe to also assume the book is quite old too?

Edited by The Bastard of Summer

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5 hours ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

It's gotta be Rhaegar's blade right?  Red Ruby in the hilt wasn't that his thing?

Good catch this they did do a lot of shots of the blade and hilt, so they were probably hinting at something. Just because LF said it was Tyrions doesn't mean he always had it. He must have got it from somewhere since the Lannisters were the only house who didn't have a valyrian sword before they broke up ice. Tywin was in KL after the mad king etc died so could easily have picked up any spoil. If Rheagar had it on the battlefield might be harder to get, but not the sort of thing to get passed over. LF was trying to cause chaos which is why Bran used the comment to let him know he basically knew that he was behind it all.

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On 7/8/2017 at 10:45 PM, Count Winter said:

Will she kill LF with it, is that Brann, or The Three Eyed Ravens plan? Or will she kill White Walkers with it as is was especially mentioned it was made of Valaryan steel....

According to me, she will kill LF and the show will let us think: "ahhh, that's why he give it to her".

But, in the end, she can kill LF with everything, so it must be in her hands to kill WW.

Answering to others, Jon has already got Valyrian steel in his hands, if I'm not wrong...

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2 hours ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Im curious to know why you think it belonged to Rhaegar?

Are most people  of the belief  it could potentially be Rhaegars because of the ruby? Well considering Rhaegar is of very recent history and the art if making valyrian steel was lost in Valyria. Can we assume the dagger predates Rhaegar? Who then was the very first and original owner? That is my question. That book Sam was reading that showed tbe dagger came from the resticted area. I think its safe to also assume the book is quite old too?

 

Well we know blades can be reforged and given new hilts so I don't feel that it's impossible that Rhaegar had a former blade changed or even had a ruby added.  However that wouldn't explain why it's in those old parchments Sam is working on.  

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2 hours ago, JRRStark said:

Good catch this they did do a lot of shots of the blade and hilt, so they were probably hinting at something. Just because LF said it was Tyrions doesn't mean he always had it. He must have got it from somewhere since the Lannisters were the only house who didn't have a valyrian sword before they broke up ice. Tywin was in KL after the mad king etc died so could easily have picked up any spoil. If Rheagar had it on the battlefield might be harder to get, but not the sort of thing to get passed over. LF was trying to cause chaos which is why Bran used the comment to let him know he basically knew that he was behind it all.

What if it was a wedding gift for his Wolf bride.  

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On 8/8/2017 at 0:48 AM, Gaz0680 said:

I think the dagger pretty clearly indicates Arya will be killing White Walkers.

 

dont think so. its an assassins blade, arya happens to be a faceless man. Weve already got the hound, brienne, jon, tormund, beric, etc etc etc to be killing white walkers. Arya is a trained assassin not a foot soldier.

19 hours ago, Morgana Lannister said:

Okay, the re-appearance of this dagger got me thinking too...

Fair enough, in the show LF told Varys and Cat (if I remember right, correct me if not) that he lost the dagger to Tyrion to incriminate him.  In the books, it transpired that it was Robert's and that Joffrey took it (which I considered one of the weakest plots in the books since to me the motive was a bit thin on the ground even for Joffrey).  In the show, it would appear that LF also lied to incriminate Tyrion, so if the dagger was his all the way (LF's) how did it land in the hands of the paid assassin?  It could be argued, mayhaps, that LF planned the attack to start a war between the Starks and the Lannisters which is possible of course but it seems to be an obscure way to go about things.  After all, he was helping Ned discover the true parentage of the Baratheon children.  That alone should have sufficed to start a huge conflict between Ned and the Lannisters, as well as the fact that he had managed to plant suspicion on the Starks (via Lysa) re Jon Arryn's death.  He really didn't need to do this.  I grant that Tyrion could have had a motive to try and silence Bran to protect his siblings, but again convoluted.  Not saying that Tyrion may have been the owner, it appears clear that he was not, but yes another layer of potential conflict which leaves us with the show more or less saying that LF masterminded that attack (whether it was meant to succeed or not - the attack- is also open to debate).  Now, if this is the case, why on this Earth someone as clever as LF would bring the topic up again.  The smart thing to do, IMHO, would be to try for people to forget the incident (if indeed he was the culprit) especially taking into account that Bran has some strong "psychic" abilities... By the way, if I had forgotten something vital in the show, please point it out but be kind as I haven't seen the first series in quite some time.

I thought the same thing as you before this episode. However I have a feeling now that cersei sent the assassin. Or perhaps paid littlefinger to send an assassin and frame tyrion for it. Seeing that cersei always hated tyrion, she wouldnt mind framing him and having him killed up north.

 

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45 minutes ago, ImNoSer said:

dont think so. its an assassins blade, arya happens to be a faceless man. Weve already got the hound, brienne, jon, tormund, beric, etc etc etc to be killing white walkers. Arya is a trained assassin not a foot soldier.

I thought the same thing as you before this episode. However I have a feeling now that cersei sent the assassin. Or perhaps paid littlefinger to send an assassin and frame tyrion for it. Seeing that cersei always hated tyrion, she wouldnt mind framing him and having him killed up north.

 

Is she a Faceless Man though? ^_^

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1 hour ago, SerJeremiahLouistark said:

 

Well we know blades can be reforged and given new hilts so I don't feel that it's impossible that Rhaegar had a former blade changed or even had a ruby added.  However that wouldn't explain why it's in those old parchments Sam is working on.  

Exactly. Which is why I never bother to state anything about reforging. The text book kinda just cancels it out for me.

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5 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Dude, you need to chill out.

Whats the point of posting the same questions over and over again. Why dont people read the thread before posting???

5 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Sam, I am just wondering, have you read the books?

I know you and I talked about this briefly on another thread yesterday, but when you say something like 'I REALLY DONT CARE ABOUT THE BOOKS WHEN DISCUSSING SHOW EVENTS', it really isn't a fair statement. This show is based on the series of books, so in that sense, especially for people who have read the books, it can be very hard to differentiate between the two, as the show hasn't included everything it the books, which can be easily forgotten by forum posters.

It has become easier in the past two seasons, as the show has gone beyond the books and into its own direction. Before that, though, the books were the source material for the story, so essentially, it was the same story, give or take a few tweaks here and there. For people who have read the books, we remember the stuff from them to be the facts and can forget that the show has tweaked them.

If someone mixes the two up, it doesn't mean they are wrong; it means that the show has left something out that the forum poster regards as information or something that happened in the story - the same story that came from the series of books.

I have read a few of the books and Ive know the basic jist of the story in the books. I gather you have read the books too, I would say the story is massively different, there are numerous changes in alot of story lines, multiple characters not involved the show etc. So no its not the same story. The ending will (most likely) be the same not the Journey there, ie the story.

The way people use the the books to reference the show is wrong. Ie Valonqar Theory, its not in the show. A show watcher who has not read the books would be confused. Simple things like the witch we seen , in the books is called Maggi the Frog, again show watchers dont know. 

Yes I know I react a little to angry and forward but how many threads do people need to make about the Gold not being in the Carriages and it was through KL. How many times do people need to ask the same question someone has answered 1 page before in great detail. I feel if im not going to bring something new to the arguement/answer I wont post for the sake of putting the same as someone else. 

I do understand people do get confused as the story lines are pretty much exact in the start. 

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11 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Whats the point of posting the same questions over and over again. Why dont people read the thread before posting???

I have read a few of the books and Ive know the basic jist of the story in the books. I gather you have read the books too, I would say the story is massively different, there are numerous changes in alot of story lines, multiple characters not involved the show etc. So no its not the same story. The ending will (most likely) be the same not the Journey there, ie the story.

The way people use the the books to reference the show is wrong. Ie Valonqar Theory, its not in the show. A show watcher who has not read the books would be confused. Simple things like the witch we seen , in the books is called Maggi the Frog, again show watchers dont know. 

Yes I know I react a little to angry and forward but how many threads do people need to make about the Gold not being in the Carriages and it was through KL. How many times do people need to ask the same question someone has answered 1 page before in great detail. I feel if im not going to bring something new to the arguement/answer I wont post for the sake of putting the same as someone else. 

I do understand people do get confused as the story lines are pretty much exact in the start. 

I think the point you need to remember in the future is that a lot of us on this forum have read the books and watch the show. Occasionally, when speaking on the show side of the forum, we are going to mention something that happened in the books that didn't happen in the show. No one means to do it, and no one that does it is wrong, either. For we are talking about the same story; it's just that the books and the show have two different means of telling it. Have a little patience for those that have read the books and watch the show. It's a lot of information to take in, so it is no surprise people forget which parts has been left out of the show and are only relevant to the books.

 

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4 hours ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Im curious to know why you think it belonged to Rhaegar?

Are most people  of the belief  it could potentially be Rhaegars because of the ruby? Well considering Rhaegar is of very recent history and the art if making valyrian steel was lost in Valyria. Can we assume the dagger predates Rhaegar? Who then was the very first and original owner? That is my question. That book Sam was reading that showed tbe dagger came from the resticted area. I think its safe to also assume the book is quite old too?

  • It was given the name Catspaw after the Catspaw who was sent with it. Due to seeing it in Samwells book he was reading I'd Hench my bets that its got another name, which will reveal a lot about it.
  • Decorated with dragon glass, Targaryen thing to do. Aegon and his descendants would decorate their blades with dragonglass. 
  • Due to the book sam was reading about the Long night, we can potentially assume this dagger has been round a long time.

Now if the show had followed the line with the books about Robert Baratheon owning, how did he come to get it? Well a very very plausible answer would be he took it from him when he killed Rhaegar in the battle of the trident. But as stated in the show the only owner we can trace it back to is LF.

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1 minute ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I think the point you need to remember in the future is that a lot of us on this forum have read the books and watch the show. Occasionally, when speaking on the show side of the forum, we are going to mention something that happened in the books that didn't happen in the show. No one means to do it, and no one that does it is wrong, either. For we are talking about the same story; it's just that the books and the show have two different means of telling it. Have a little patience for those that have read the books and watch the show. It's a lot of information to take in, so it is no surprise people forget which parts has been left out of the show and are only relevant to the books.

 

I apologise for this. I understand its alot of info to take in and I forget things too, but before posting if I havnt been part of the topic from the start I'll have a quick read to clear up any questions I may ask that have already been answered.

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12 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Whats the point of posting the same questions over and over again. Why dont people read the thread before posting???

I have Yes I know I react a little to angry and forward 

What's the point of replying with hostility and insults?  What does that accomplish?  Nothing. 

If you can't reply without being insulting, don't reply. Let someone else answer the repetitive questions, or ignore them all together.  Chances are they'll keep reading the thread and find the post that answers their questions. 

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21 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Now if the show had followed the line with the books about Robert Baratheon owning, how did he come to get it? 

While I like the idea of Robert retrieving the dagger from Rhaegar's body, if it follows the book then Robert won it off LF by betting against Jaime. That's the whole reason we know Tyrion didn't have it. He never bets against Jamie.

Regardless, whether we look at show or book the chain of custody begins and ends with Little Finger.  Where did HE get it?

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

While I like the idea of Robert retrieving the dagger from Rhaegar's body, if it follows the book then Robert won it off LF by betting against Jaime. That's the whole reason we know Tyrion didn't have it. He never bets against Jamie.

Regardless, whether we look at show or book the chain of custody begins and ends with Little Finger.  Where did HE get it?

Yeah, obviously following the Show LF is confirmed to first have it and lastly aswe she he gives it to Bran. But the key as you say is where has it come from

If in fact if it was the dagger seen in the book and thats its a Targaryen decorated dagger, it would be just a Valyrian steel dagger. This would for me confirm it was from the time or around Aegon the Conqueror. Suggesting it has been passed down generation to generation ultimately ending in Rhaegars possession.

Edited by Samwell_Tarly

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35 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

If in fact if it was the dagger seen in the book and thats its a Targaryen decorated dagger, it would be just a Valyrian steel dagger. This would for me confirm it was from the time or around Aegon the Conqueror. Suggesting it has been passed down generation to generation ultimately ending in Rhaegars possession.

The picture in the book, and the amount of time the camera stayed on it, combined with the sudden reappearance of the dagger definitely seems to elevate its importance.  Not to mention the number of scenes and amount of dialogue specifically referencing that dagger.

I just can't see why, narratively. Granted we don't have all the information but it seems like there would have been some hints or clues about a dagger much earlier in the series.  That is, unless this is a last minute change/addition. 

I'm scared that the show is going to make the dagger Lightbringer.  :wacko:

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Just now, Lurid Jester said:

The picture in the book, and the amount of time the camera stayed on it, combined with the sudden reappearance of the dagger definitely seems to elevate its importance.  Not to mention the number of scenes and amount of dialogue specifically referencing that dagger.

Maybe a flash back to the tourney of Harrenhal, we will see the dagger maybe on Rhaegar's belt or some sort.

Just now, Lurid Jester said:

I just can't see why, narratively. Granted we don't have all the information but it seems like there would have been some hints or clues about a dagger much earlier in the series.  That is, unless this is a last minute change/addition. 

Yeah there hasnt been anything until  now so possible twist/addition as you say. Seems strange to have this dagger back if its not going to do something/foreshadow/reference something or reveal something probably for Jon.

Just now, Lurid Jester said:

I'm scared that the show is going to make the dagger Lightbringer.  :wacko:

I really dont want them to have the dagger as Lightbringer, 

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Posted (edited)

On 8/8/2017 at 3:48 AM, Gaz0680 said:

I think the dagger pretty clearly indicates Arya will be killing White Walkers.

 

She'll kill one, take his dead face, then shuffle along with the herd until she's within dagger distance of the Night King... WHAM! Valyrian steel straight into his dead skull, he shatters, and she drops the dagger like a mic and dryly quips "come at me bro."

This is why I don't write for this or any show.

It's also proof that I would have done a better job with the Dorne subplot/characters.

Edited by Ser Hyle
grammar

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7 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Maybe a flash back to the tourney of Harrenhal, we will see the dagger maybe on Rhaegar's belt or some sort.

That would be pretty cool, although it wouldn't explain how LF got it.

7 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

Yeah there hasnt been anything until  now so possible twist/addition as you say. Seems strange to have this dagger back if its not going to do something/foreshadow/reference something or reveal something probably for Jon.

I'm leaning toward it being relevant to LF specifically.  Honestly I expect Arya to kill him with it for some form of poetic justice.  Maybe. 

10 minutes ago, Samwell_Tarly said:

I really dont want them to have the dagger as Lightbringer, 

No kidding.  Luckily they haven't really mentioned Lightbringer outside of the Stannis arc.  So here's hoping the dagger ain't it. :)

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3 hours ago, ImNoSer said:

dont think so. its an assassins blade, arya happens to be a faceless man. Weve already got the hound, brienne, jon, tormund, beric, etc etc etc to be killing white walkers. Arya is a trained assassin not a foot soldier.

I thought the same thing as you before this episode. However I have a feeling now that cersei sent the assassin. Or perhaps paid littlefinger to send an assassin and frame tyrion for it. Seeing that cersei always hated tyrion, she wouldnt mind framing him and having him killed up north.

 

Well, this would make more sense that Joffrey doing it.  It could have "killed two birds with one stone" in getting rid of Bran who was potentially dangerous to her and her children's position and to get rid of Tyrion in the process.  Okay the main suspects would have been Cersei and Jaime I think but after what LF said about the ownership of the dagger not so much.  This also ties up with my probably crackpot idea that Tyrion has something on LF which keeps bringing him to repeatedly try to get Tyrion killed.

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