Death of the Night King...And stuff

[The Bastard of Summer]

It's been talked about half a hundred times but I wasn't part of those discussions and maybe neither were you. Also I'll try and stick to what we know as show canon. So lets go!

 

I don't believe the NK can be killed by obsidian (dragonglass), Valyrain steel blades, or fire (including dragon fire)

 

·He was made by a piece of dragonglass (probably spelled and magicked) through the heart so I don't think sticking more in him will cut it heh...

 

So what do I think can kill him?

 

Well i think the literal interpretation of Lightbringer as a sword will do the trick. A blade made him a blade will undo him. (Also it's a friggin fantasy series why not a damn magic sword? I don't think Mel was wrong here)

 

Well where the hell is Lightbringer?

 

It's Dawn. The same sword Ned took back to Starfall when he left the Tower of Joy with baby Jon. We've seen it in a few flashback of Brans. Very clear close ups of it too mind you.

 

The Long Night is coming and to end it, dawn has to come. Dawn is literally: the first appearance of light in the sky before sunrise!!! Dawn brings light people!

 

Why Dawn?

 

It's not like any other sword we know in the story thus far. Many houses have ancestoral valyrian steel blades (Corbrays, Starks, Tarlys, Harlaw, Mormont*, etc). But no other house can boast of a sword that matches Dawn. It's strong and sharp as valyrain steel. But it's described as; pale as milkglass. So it's quite special.

 

Who will wield this sword?

 

Well only a member of House Dayne who holds the title (or office) sword of the morning can. Last Sword of the Morning was...Ser Arthur Dayne

 

 

 

But he's dead!!! We saw that in Brans vison when Howland Reed and Ned killed him at the Tower of Joy.

 

I don't know how we get around this...(ideas anyone?)

 

One sword against all those White Walkers?

 

NO. Let me be very clear only Dawn will kill the Night King. Because that's who I'm talking about specifically. The mission is to end the Night King. He must be sought out and slain. He controls the others it seems...... The White Walkers will be taken down by obsidian and valyrain weapons. The wights by fire.

 

Now with all that being said I pose a few questions...

 

If Rhollr the 'Lord of Light' is a god and fire/dragons (dragons are fire made flesh) are his champions. Red priests his servants, and his greatest opponent is the Great Other (who must not be named, and must also be a god)...........Who or what besides ice is the champion of the Great Other?

 

We know who the Great Others servants are (White Walkers and wights).

 

·What is the Great Others name?

 

·If the Night King controls the White Walkers, is he the Great Other? That means he has immense power we can't dream of.

 

·If he's not a god who controls him?

 

·How can he be a god if he was created by the Children of the forrest?

·Are the Children collectively the Great Other? Are they evil then?

[Victarian Revolution]

Has Dawn specifically been mentioned in the series? I know we're SEEN it a few times but it hasn't been given much attention.  If it is in fact such an important weapon in the grand scheme of things, then surely someone (on the show) would have talked about it?

[Prince Jon]

While I love the idea of Dawn playing a role, I agree that it is awfully late to have it come into the storyline.  Non book readers would be totally confused.  Better chance Arya's dagger is the weapon to kill the NK in my opinion.  

[Samwell_Tarly]

27 minutes ago, Victarian Revolution said:

Has Dawn specifically been mentioned in the series? I know we're SEEN it a few times but it hasn't been given much attention.  If it is in fact such an important weapon in the grand scheme of things, then surely someone (on the show) would have talked about it?

Not at all. 

2 minutes ago, Prince Jon said:

While I love the idea of Dawn playing a role, I agree that it is awfully late to have it come into the storyline.  Non book readers would be totally confused.  Better chance Arya's dagger is the weapon to kill the NK in my opinion.  

I agree, far too late to be starting to bring in something now, lay a back story etc etc. I believe Catspaw will not be its correct name and the proper name will serve to reveal something, probably towards Jon. But I agree its one of the weapons that could be used to potentially kill the NK.

[The Bastard of Summer]

 

37 minutes ago, Prince Jon said:

  Better chance Arya's dagger is the weapon to kill the NK in my opinion.  

I could see that. I wonder if there was more on thar dagger in those boojs Sam and Gilly had. I have also stated in another thread that I wonder if when Bran is asking about  the daggers owner  to Littlefinger, if he is asking about the original  owner. Not the person who gave it to the catspaw. I wonder if he has seen that dagger in his visions of the past.

And yes Dawn wasn't mentioned as often as I can recall. But a girl still has hopes for the books. Then again even without mention Dawn has been showen as I said maybe the show runners thought people  would pick up on it?....naw 

 

**but I must add that dagger Arya has if it is the weapon that defeats the night king then there is somthing more to it. I don't think a regular valyrian blade will be enough. The same thing that can kill his "generals" can kill him? I don't  even think they were made the same  way as the Night King. And him dying by an "ordinary" valyrian steel blade just doest feel right........

[The Bastard of Summer]

37 minutes ago, Victarian Revolution said:

Has Dawn specifically been mentioned in the series? I know we're SEEN it a few times but it hasn't been given much attention.  If it is in fact such an important weapon in the grand scheme of things, then surely someone (on the show) would have talked about it?

This isn't necessarily something I 100% subscribe to .But I do feel that whatever takes out the Night King is indeed a blade. Book or show. I was watching a video on the Children and the guy was saying how evil they really are. And it got me to thinking  about the weapon that would kill the Night King again.

[Lurid Jester]

Dawn hasn't really been mention as far as I recall. Even in the Tower of Joy scene the main focus isnt so much the sword as it is that the sword Is the bloody star under which Jon is born. 

Dawn was made from a meteor and it was bloody. Prophecy criteria fulfilled, apparently.

As for Lightbringer being a weapon, I'm not buying it.  

I'm convinced that Lightbringer is either Jon or the Night's Watch, although I'm leaning toward Jon. 

It'll probably turn out that I'm wrong though.  How many tropes can Martin actually subvert?

[The Bastard of Summer]

2 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

How many tropes can Martin actually subvert?

That's  kinda one of my points. I don't  think he will try and do that here. What would be the point? A fantsy story where nothing prophetic  is literal? As i said after all it IS still a fantasy series. Is a magicked sword so out  landish? I feel there has yet to be a literal  manifestation of prophecy. Why would it be so bad to see  a special sword could well come into play to fell one specific enemy?......

[Count Winter]

Well, as GRRM mentioned, the Daynes play a significant role, at least in the books. But i agree it's quite late to introduce them in the story now. Probably their role will be fulfilled by someone else('s sword).

[Lurid Jester]

9 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

That's  kinda one of my points. I don't  think he will try and do that here. What would be the point? A fantsy story where nothing prophetic  is literal? As i said after all it IS still a fantasy series. Is a magicked sword so out  landish? I feel there has yet to be a literal  manifestation of prophecy. Why would it be so bad to see  a special sword could well come into play to fell one specific enemy?......

Very true. I don't think it's a literal sword for some specific show reasons though.

The first is that the show hasn't even really mentioned Lightbringer, though I suppose Sam might discover something in those scrolls.

Second, Berric lit his sword with only his blood. No Thoros trickery.

Jon is like Berric so as far as we know he can do the same thing. At some point I suspect that Jon will meet Berric and learn about this.  Possibly from Arya who witnessed it and knows that Berric is some kind of revanent. 

End result is Jon, Lightbringer, fighting the Night King with a flaming sword. 

Possibly tinfoil hat theory crafting though. 

[Illiterati]

1 hour ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

 

I could see that. I wonder if there was more on thar dagger in those boojs Sam and Gilly had. I have also stated in another thread that I wonder if when Bran is asking about  the daggers owner  to Littlefinger, if he is asking about the original  owner. Not the person who gave it to the catspaw. I wonder if he has seen that dagger in his visions of the past.

And yes Dawn wasn't mentioned as often as I can recall. But a girl still has hopes for the books. Then again even without mention Dawn has been showen as I said maybe the show runners thought people  would pick up on it?....naw 

 

**but I must add that dagger Arya has if it is the weapon that defeats the night king then there is somthing more to it. I don't think a regular valyrian blade will be enough. The same thing that can kill his "generals" can kill him? I don't  even think they were made the same  way as the Night King. And him dying by an "ordinary" valyrian steel blade just doest feel right........

I believe he asked LF who owned the dagger to set him up.  Remember, Cat asked him who owned the dagger, and the answer was entirely different.  Bran could easily be privy to this knowledge.  There's  credo among lawyers that they only ask questions for which they already know the answer.

[The Bastard of Summer]

2 minutes ago, Count Winter said:

Well, as GRRM mentioned, the Daynes play a significant role, at least in the books. But i agree it's quite late to introduce them in the story now. Probably their role will be fulfilled by someone else('s sword).

Yes I  do hold on to that hope for the books...not the show though. 

And that part of this pet theory show wise is why i said it was a dead end and i had no way of explaining how we would see it come into play...i did ask for ideas lol

As far as the dagger Arya has I've  spent the better part of an hour thinking about it. I do wonder what it's  name is. Is it called something in Valyrian that translates lightbringer? Who originally  owned it after if was first forged? If it is the Night Kings doom, does it need to undergo some form of magical tempering. ....say like being burried into the chest of a loved  one? Must they give their life for the power of the  blade to become active. Life is fire. A persons fire is their life. If its pulled out of the fire does it become  alive with light? Is lightbringer the person who gives their life if need be or is it the blade??? Why is this bugging me!!!!

[The Bastard of Summer]

13 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Very true. I don't think it's a literal sword for some specific show reasons though.

The first is that the show hasn't even really mentioned Lightbringer, though I suppose Sam might discover something in those scrolls.

Second, Berric lit his sword with only his blood. No Thoros trickery.

Jon is like Berric so as far as we know he can do the same thing. At some point I suspect that Jon will meet Berric and learn about this.  Possibly from Arya who witnessed it and knows that Berric is some kind of revanent. 

End result is Jon, Lightbringer, fighting the Night King with a flaming sword. 

Possibly tinfoil hat theory crafting though. 

But it had all of season two. Very first episode when we meet Mel. She keeps saying Stannis' sword is Lightbringer. And we don't  know where Mels fake Lightbringer for Stannis is.....not that its the genuine article

**also the red priests in essos mention azor ahai and his flaming sword over the world. They  preach it when  Tyrion reaches  Volantis and when he's  in Mereen...

[Illiterati]

I'm still not convinced this story leads to the death of the Night King.

[Lurid Jester]

2 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

But it had all of season two. Very first episode when we meet Mel. She keeps saying Stannis' sword is Lightbringer. And we don't  know where Mels fake Lightbringer for Stannis is.....not that its the genuine article

Wasn't it discarded after he drew it from the statue?  I seem to recall even Stannis being king of dubious about the whole Lightbringer claim, but I don't know if book and show are bleeding together in my head.  

 

[The Bastard of Summer]

18 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I believe he asked LF who owned the dagger to set him up.  Remember, Cat asked him who owned the dagger, and the answer was entirely different.  Bran could easily be privy to this knowledge.  There's  credo among lawyers that they only ask questions for which they already know the answer.

Bran isnt a lawyer and if he's  all knowing he already knows the truth. I honestly don't  think he cares if Littlefinger lies. Because  he would  already know that littlefinger  is a liar and schemer. 

8 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

I'm still not convinced this story leads to the death of the Night King.

Okay. Well maybe I should  have asked what will  kill the night king in the title? If people have a different  theory  I will read it, thus the reason I named it what I did and added and stuff. Point is I want to know show wise what people  think will bring him down.

[The Bastard of Summer]

12 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

Wasn't it discarded after he drew it from the statue?  I seem to recall even Stannis being king of dubious about the whole Lightbringer claim, but I don't know if book and show are bleeding together in my head.  

 

I do recall  him placing it in the sand....i don't  remember if Aemon "examined" it in the show like he did the books though.

[Illiterati]

4 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Bran isnt a lawyer and if he's  all knowing he already knows the truth. I honestly don't  think he cares if Littlefinger lies. Because  he would  already know that littlefinger  is a liar and schemer. 

Okay. Well maybe I should  have asked what will  kill the night king in the title? If people have a different  theory  I will read it, thus the reason I named it what I did and added and stuff. Point is I want to know show wise what people  think will bring him down.

I don't have a theory per se.  I do know GRRM has said that this story doesn't end the way we would suspect.  I just have a feeling that the Night King doesn't die at all and ends up being something less dark than we are led to believe by events up to now.

 

Hell, Planetos could end up being an Oz, someone's dream.  Bran did have a dog, after all.

[The Bastard of Summer]

1 minute ago, Illiterati said:

I don't have a theory per se.  I do know GRRM has said that this story doesn't end the way we would suspect.  I just have a feeling that the Night King doesn't die at all and ends up being something less dark than we are led to believe by events up to now.

True he did..but D&D are kinda writing their own story  now. Maybe they wont end the show like Martin intends to end the books. I don't  believe the Others and Night  King to be wholly evil...after all they were created as a weapon . Against their will by the looks to the vision Bran sees. Old dude was bound and gagged. What I think about the whole situation  is a whole lot more than this...and Bran only saw a bit too there may be more revelations  coming about those lil green bastards called children.

[Count Winter]

14 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

Well maybe I should  have asked what will  kill the night king in the title? If people have a different  theory  I will read it, thus the reason I named it what I did and added and stuff. Point is I want to know show wise what people  think will bring him down.

It's all speculation of course. But i cannot think otherwise then that it's Jon's 'job' to kill the NK. Probably with some help from Bran and possibly it will cost him his own life (again)....Arya's dagger is mend for the Mountain...