Ser Sinister Posted August 8, 2017 Share Posted August 8, 2017 My apologies if this topic has been discussed before, but after the events of the last episode, it raised certain questions. I brought them up in another thread, but I think it got buried in another discussion. Assuming any of the dragons survive the possible future attacks on KL (and since we've seen what one ballista was capable of, and with the show writers love for Cersei, I can see her taking out 2 dragons by herself), what chance do White Walkers have against a dragon? They're a completely ground-based army. Granted, we haven't seen any of their magic capabilities, other than creating an undead army, but is there anything that would lead us to believe they have some sort of dragon-freezing magic? Is that why the show is making Dany so adamant against helping Jon Snow? Because it would be pretty much "fly 3 dragons...burn entire army of White Walkers...be home for dinner"? Granted, we haven't really seen anything outside of the Hardhome episode, and there it was clear that the White Walkers have some sort of ice magic. Does fire even hurt them? Or??? Do they have undead dragons?!?!? How awesome would that be??? Or with dragons being creatures of fire, maybe they can't exist in the cold of the North? Is there anything in the books that indicate that any of the Targaryen dragons ranged in the North? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Sinister Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 I'm hoping that we find out more later in the season about the capabilities of the Night King and the White Walker armies. If the theories about them freezing the sea to pass by The Wall are true, it will be interesting to see what they do to the castles in the North. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I've been wondering about this for a while now. With what they have shown though, I just don't see how they can stand against three dragons? They haven shown any ranged capabilities have they? There are theories that have some dragons apparently going north and never being seen again. Cannible specifically if I recall correctly. I don't think they're going to just pull a fourth ice dragon out of a hat. I think Drogon is going to die, not sure how though. Maybe wight giants with those huge bows, maybe poison from the wound from last episode. Unless they get their hands on the biggest of the three. If that happens then the playing field levels a bit. Granted that although I know Drogon is bigger than his siblings, I don't think we've really seen how much bigger. Just spitballing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mother of Mini Dragons Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Well, we did see the giants with those big bows and we know that the White Walkers have giants. Assuming they can control how their undead fight - it is possible they can use their giants to shoot some of those giant arrows similar to the ones Cersei & Qyburn created at the dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Walker Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The Whitewalkers seem to have the ability to create storms. A heavy blizzard can pretty much mess with the navigation of the dragons. Harsh cold weather might even affect them. Speaking of abilities, we know the Night King on the show can manipulate wind/atmosphere(storms), earth(quake at the 3ER's cave), and also fire(again when the children tried to block him at the cave). Maybe he will be able to manipulate dragonfire as well. Theoretically, to win against the Long Night the dragons need to engage the wights(easily flammable) while men(archers/lancers/swordsmen) need to engage the whitewalkers with Valyrian steel/dragonglass weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Lepus Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The White Walkers don't need to fight Dany's dragons at all. Dany has only three dragon, Westeros is continent-sized, and the White Walkers have an almost unlimited supply of undead soldiers (so long as they keep killing humans, they will get more and more wights...). Westeros is BIG. Even if Dany were to find two dragonriders for Viserion and Rhaego, they can't protect all the hamlets and villages of the Seven Kingdoms; all the White Walkers have to do is to spread around and attack only where and when Dany isn't around. On top of that, White Walkers only move and attack at night, and hide during daylight hours, so the chances of Dany spotting them from above are almost null... Even if Dany manages to destroy a large number of wights, all the White Walkers have to do is to retreat and create more. Dany can't guard every settlement in Westeros, even if she got all the remaining troops of the continent under her control... What she can do is to gather all living humans and all the food in a few havens (Winterfell, White Harbor, Gulltown, Casterly Rock, Riverrun, Storm's End, Oldtown, King's Landing...etc) and wait for the wights and White Walkers there. Melisandre or Thoros can tell her which of them is going to be attacked next, and she can go with her dragons there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Sinister Posted August 10, 2017 Author Share Posted August 10, 2017 All very good points...thanks! I guess I'm making the mistake of assuming that the armies of the White Walkers are nothing more than mindless zombies, because we haven't seen them in either the show or the books exhibiting any real strategy. That, and we're not really sure what their purpose is. Maybe a 10-minute exposition from Bran is in order... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 The wights are mindless. The walkers and the Night King are executing strategy. Getting to Bran to break the magic protecting Rivers, for example. The Night King is on a mission, it's just that the exact nature of it hasn't been revealed to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Sánchez Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I would say that the white walkers are magical, and from a classic fantasy point of view, a lich/nigromant/witch is not limited to only his dead rising abilities, perhaps since the night king hasn't been directly challenged yet, we haven't seen his full capabilities... If he can manage to kill and wight a dragon, then he may be able to challenge Dany directly, and that would be pretty crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Crazy indeed..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plastic throne Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 Isn't there a Night King seen on a top of a dragon on promotional material for this season? That and when Long Night really comes, it will be impossible to scout the countryside from air because of the eternal darkness thus impossible to point/know where the dead will strike. I can't wait for books to come and how those will tackle this. Yes, I have little trust in the series, though I am sure visuals will be nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 I think the dragons will screw up the dead army on mass but something that people forget is just how big westero's is. The land beyond the wall is the size of canada from what george RR martin says. On the map the land beyond the wall looks tin and yet it is humongous. It is impossible to scout all that out. Plus if dany has to ride one she is gonna need to be wrapped up in ten layers of wool and find mid evil goggles or freeze to death. Also the white walkers have magic so I assume they will use it to attack dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon Posted August 10, 2017 Share Posted August 10, 2017 With dragons or not,the people of Westeros are really screwed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katleesi Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 8 hours ago, Ser Sinister said: I'm hoping that we find out more later in the season about the capabilities of the Night King and the White Walker armies. If the theories about them freezing the sea to pass by The Wall are true, it will be interesting to see what they do to the castles in the North. We've seen that walkers won't go into water, so -theoretically- if they freeze the sea to walk over it/around eastwatch, then luring them into the sea, having a dragon melt the ice and drown the walkers seems like an excellent battle plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 4 hours ago, snow is the man said: I think the dragons will screw up the dead army on mass but something that people forget is just how big westero's is. The land beyond the wall is the size of canada from what george RR martin says. On the map the land beyond the wall looks tin and yet it is humongous. It is impossible to scout all that out. Plus if dany has to ride one she is gonna need to be wrapped up in ten layers of wool and find mid evil goggles or freeze to death. Also the white walkers have magic so I assume they will use it to attack dragons. Unless you're the last greenseer and can see through the eyes of crows, weirwood trees, and whatever else he can peep through. Chipmunks maybe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bastard of Summer Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 I think the dragons will be vulnerable in the cold climate. Especially abnormal or magical cold weather. As far as killing White Walkers I personally don't think any form of fire can kill them normal or magical dragon fire. Dragons already have overpowered flames. it would indeed but just a walk in the park with three dragons however. But if they are effected by the cold and somehow hindered it would be a bit more even I believe. I think the main part the dragons will play is killing the wights. I believe when we see the host of the dead wights it will be astounding. And three dragons will be needed absolutely. BUT they will not have an unfair advantage by just burning them all up in a few minutes and leaving only the White Walkers and Night King. So I'm thinking fire for wights only. Obsidian and Valyrian steet for White walkers....and maybe a combination of the steel, obsidian, and fire for the Night King. I don't think what takes down the army and generals will be the same to take down the leader. He's special so something special must kill him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Sinister Posted August 11, 2017 Author Share Posted August 11, 2017 I agree with Plastic Throne above in that I think the show is going to whitewash over a lot of the mysticism behind the CotF, the WW, and a lot of the religions of Westeros. It's somewhat understandable, because there is a lot of story to squeeze into a limited number of episodes. That being said, the showrunners know how the series ends, but I'm not sure they have all the details of how to get there. I really hope that Martin finishes the series, and if that doesn't happen, lets all the faithful readers know how it was supposed to end. There's a reason why the books and show have such a rabid following. We got sucked into the mystery behind the events in the books, and it would be a shame if we never get the answers (even though a lot of people seem to have some really credible theories). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell_Tarly Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 13 hours ago, Ser Sinister said: I'm hoping that we find out more later in the season about the capabilities of the Night King and the White Walker armies. If the theories about them freezing the sea to pass by The Wall are true, it will be interesting to see what they do to the castles in the North. I dont think they have froze it, its the winter that has. I personally dont like this idea that the WW have waited for 8000 years for a winter so cold just to freeze the water so they can pass, seems pretty pointless that the wall was built. 12 hours ago, Ser Lepus said: On top of that, White Walkers only move and attack at night, and hide during daylight hours, so the chances of Dany spotting them from above are almost null.... We have seen a mix of day and night, so they definitely dont hide during daylight hours. 13 hours ago, Mother of Mini Dragons said: Well, we did see the giants with those big bows and we know that the White Walkers have giants. Assuming they can control how their undead fight - it is possible they can use their giants to shoot some of those giant arrows similar to the ones Cersei & Qyburn created at the dragons. Im pretty sure we see one of the wight giants with a massive bow, when we got glimpse of the AotD in season 7. We saw first hand the power and destruction it caused when the giant fired the bow back when Mance attacked the wall. So a couple of them definitely could bring the dragon down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 11, 2017 Share Posted August 11, 2017 6 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said: I dont think they have froze it, its the winter that has. I personally dont like this idea that the WW have waited for 8000 years for a winter so cold just to freeze the water so they can pass, seems pretty pointless that the wall was built. I think it's a combination of things. The coldest winter in a thousand years happening at a time when the Night King has a force large enough to be a threat. Remember, he's had to slowly build up his army with babies sacrificed like Craster did. That probably took a long time depending on how many troops he had at the end of the last long night. 6 hours ago, Samwell_Tarly said: Im pretty sure we see one of the wight giants with a massive bow, when we got glimpse of the AotD in season 7. We saw first hand the power and destruction it caused when the giant fired the bow back when Mance attacked the wall. So a couple of them definitely could bring the dragon down. We've seen living giants with massive bows and we've seen wight giants. What we haven't seen is a wight giant with a bow, or (I think) a wight using a bow. So they seem to be a logical threat to the dragon's air superiority but we'll have to wait and see. Whatever happens, I'm sure the NK will use the giants better than Jon did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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