Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Jcat

Is there anyone else who hates Tyrion's arc this season?

53 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Tyrion is one of my favorite characters on the show.  I love his intelligence and audacity.  However, this season as Hand of the Queen he has not only been reduced to a secondary character, but D & D (and maybe GRRM) are portraying him as a complete bumbler in terms of strategy and tactics.  At best they are depicting him as a Chamberlain, not as a Churchill.  And that does not ring true to the character I learned to love in past seasons of the show.

I don't expect Tyrion to win every situation, but it appears that his character is being delibrately set-up to serve as a foil to let Daenerys' dragon nature shine through.  It really pisses me off!  The character has totally lost his mojo!

I hope he was the one who suggested Daenerys attack the Lannister army, as an alternative to burning down King's Landing, but it will probably be Jon or Daenerys herself.

At this point Tyrion should just say screw it, hand in his badge, and go north to fight the Night King!

 

Please note: I apologize if this was covered in the 'rant without repercussion section'.

 

Edited by Jcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am NOT a Tyrion fan on the show and am ambivalent about him in the books, so take that as a disclaimer, but I agree he has been reduced significantly - his wit and charm are gone.  I expected him to take some lumps and be different without wine or whores, but not this weird.  I think it is because he was better as a cynic, him being all like "Dany I actually believe in you" is super at odds with his personality and how we had seen him treat similarly authoritative and aggressive people before.  Plus, she left town almost the minute he got there in Meereen and then he went about undoing her work and creating the disaster that was the siege of Meereen, and once she comes back its like they are the best friends ever?  No way I can believe that.

His arc this season only makes sense if he is Daenerys' third betrayal, the one for love, his love of Jaime.  But I highly doubt he will be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It feels that he doesn't have any arc this season. He's one of Dany's minions now. Last season he just made stupid jokes, now he barely had 5 lines pro episode and everything he suggested made zero sense.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Jcat said:

Tyrion is one of my favorite characters on the show.  I love his intelligence and audacity.  However, this season as Hand of the Queen he has not only been reduced to a secondary character, but D & D (and maybe GRRM) are portraying him as a complete bumbler in terms of strategy and tactics.  At best they are depicting him as a Chamberlain, not as a Churchill.  And that does not ring true to the character I learned to love in past seasons of the show.

I don't expect Tyrion to win every situation, but it appears that his character is being delibrately set-up to serve as a foil to let Daenerys' dragon nature shine through.  It really pisses me off!  The character has totally lost his mojo!

I hope he was the one who suggested Daenerys attack the Lannister army, as an alternative to burning down King's Landing, but it will probably be Jon or Daenerys herself.

At this point Tyrion should just say screw it, hand in his badge, and go north to fight the Night King!

 

Please note: I apologize if this was covered in the 'rant without repercussion section'.

 

he indeed has been incompetent but at least he's not varys. What in the world happened to varys?. He should have known about euron and about the lannister's army movement. He has become useless.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Tyrion's smart ass persona has lasted past its' expiration date. The same can be said of Cersei constantly surviving by one Ass-pull after another. Oh, and Littlefinger still breathing air is another one that has soured.

Edited by A Ghost of Someone

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Hey thanks for your thoughts folks.  I agree with most of them.  Especially Lucius' point about how Tyrion the cynic is not transforming well into Daenerys' oh so thoughtful lap dog.

The unusual thing I have noted, but cannot back-up with statistical certainity, is that Tyrion has lost much of his popular appeal as the show has progressed.  I watch a lot of aftershows and reviews on Youtube, and Tyrion does not receive anywhere near as much attention as he used to receive.  Daenerys, Jon, Arya, Sansa, Jaime and even Cersei draw most of the interest.  Of course, it could just be his storyline this season and the later half of last season which puts him very much in a supporting role.

I do hope the show runners redeem Tyrion and soon, because his storyline is getting hard to watch.

Edited by Jcat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll note that I haven't read the books, but I'm not too surprised by Tyrion's positioning.

Being a joking, irreverent, smart ass is all well and good when you're around family, protected by your (or rather their) status to a considerable degree (not always). It's less of a sound strategy when you're in the big leagues having to provide value by your own actions or risk getting sidelined, and where you are viewed not as someone who will always be around because he is family, but as someone who can be replaced.

Tyrion has given good advice and tried to keep his new Queen's eyes on the long-term goals. That it doesn't always work out as well as hoped isn't a problem. It happens.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Almost all the major characters in the show have changed since they were first introduced. Tyrion's has been perhaps the worst change, though.

At the start, he was clever, witty and extremely controversial. Some of his best moments came when he was held captive at the Vale and the trial by combat that succeeded. He was brilliant as Hand to Joffrey, because he had brilliant characters to play his wits against, like Varys, Littlefinger and Cersei and Tywin when he returned. During the build up to his second trial by combat and his murdering of Tywin, we saw him at his best again.

But killing Tywin seemed to be the last worthwhile thing he did. He was at his best, for me, when he was opposing people and when he was doing things for himself. When he was being discriminated against for being a dwarf, we saw some of his best lines in retort. Now, as Daenerys' hand, he is somehow fully on board with her. He is no longer the cynical Tyrion who was once mistrustful of everyone. He seems to have given everything to her, and in doing that, lost all the wit and cynicism that made him so likeable.

I hope that, if Daenerys captures and holds Jaime as hostage, Tyrion comes back to being the Tyrion of old by being around his brother. I would love it if Tyrion was to release Jaime. That would truly put him in Daenerys' dragon-house, and this time, for going against her wishes as opposed to making a blunder. That would be more like the Tyrion of old.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't recognize anything even resembling arc or a story in regards to Tyrion, ever since he met with Dany. Not a wonder really, considering that it's the moment when Tyrion in the show abandoned his book arc. Ever since he's been as static as anyone and his "arc" was completely uneventful because D&D don't know what to do with him until he somehow returns to his book arc again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tyrion has a arc this season? I haven't noticed any signs of such a thing myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is no arc. By what I can gather he is starting to maybe doubt Dany as a leader, maybe there could be something there, maybe not. He's become almost a secondary character that we just used to know very well and D&D are resorting him to comedy relief most of the time. For some reason, they're having him plan out this big time military conquest, but warmaking has never been one of Tyrion's talents. He is a good politician and a diplomat, not a war strategist. It seems as though he has no impact on the story rather than to just slow down Dany's conquest. Ever since he pledged his allegiance to her by the end of the last season he's lost his interest as a character (not to say that before he was just fine in the show). I think Tyrion's point as a character is not someone who's looking to be loyal to someone else, but a guy that wanted to live a decent and happy life, but never got around to it, because his family wouldn't let him, hence his nihilism after he leaves Westeros in book 5 (this is part of the reason why the omission of the Tysha story was such a wrong move). He doesn't care about someone being a good ruler or not, the only reason he's going after Dany is motivated purely by interest, hoping she'll hand him over CR when she's done with Westeros (also because he wants to spite his family and his dead father). As far as the actor goes, I'm sure Dinklage is trying his best, but even he seems like he barely cares. He just delivers lines, and hopes he sounds witty doing it. I'm not putting much fault in him, D&D looks like they have given up on Tyrion as a principal character in any case to make way for the inevitable Jon/Dany romance.

A shame really. Tyrion is my favorite character both from the book and show (up until around Season 5). At least I have Pilou as Euron to entertain me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, The King Of Cooked Steak said:

He doesn't care about someone being a good ruler or not, the only reason he's going after Dany is motivated purely by interest, hoping she'll hand him over CR when she's done with Westeros (also because he wants to spite his family and his dead father). 

I agree with that if we were talking about book Tyrion or show Tyrion up until season 5. But what worries me is that Tyrion is actually starting to appear like he does care about her being a good ruler and isn't motivated by his own interested and desire for Casterly Rock, quite the opposite of what you are saying and the opposite of what his true character is.

The look on his face when he was watching Lannister men burn didn't sit with me. I can imagine that scene in the books with GRRM making him laugh or make japes in his interior monologue. Hoping for Jaime to flee, I could see the sense in that to an extent. But Tyrion currently hates Jaime over the Tysha thing (I know he threatened to one day kill him in the book, not sure if the show included this), so unless he's suddenly forgotten all about that - which I doubt - I can't imagine Tyrion caring much about Jaime's fate, having threatened to kill him himself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I was not aware that Tyrion has anything resembling an arc this season....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I agree with that if we were talking about book Tyrion or show Tyrion up until season 5. But what worries me is that Tyrion is actually starting to appear like he does care about her being a good ruler and isn't motivated by his own interested and desire for Casterly Rock, quite the opposite of what you are saying and the opposite of what his true character is.

The look on his face when he was watching Lannister men burn didn't sit with me. I can imagine that scene in the books with GRRM making him laugh or make japes in his interior monologue. Hoping for Jaime to flee, I could see the sense in that to an extent. But Tyrion currently hates Jaime over the Tysha thing (I know he threatened to one day kill him in the book, not sure if the show included this), so unless he's suddenly forgotten all about that - which I doubt - I can't imagine Tyrion caring much about Jaime's fate, having threatened to kill him himself.

Yup, that's exactly the fundamental reason why show-Tyrion is falling apart as a character in my eyes.

That part you mentioned about him watching the Lannister soldiers burning in horror is interesting. I don't think book-Tyrion would make jokes while people were burning alive, LOL, but he certainly wouldn't care too much. Also, I think it's Jaime's betrayal that put Tyrion over the edge in the books, and sent him on a path of self-loathing and depression (and to kill Tywin, of course). His brother was like the only person to ever claim to love him, yet he had a role in taking away the most important thing Tyrion craved, and that was actual love and happiness, which was manifested in Tysha. So in his eyes, currently in the books, he's just as guilty as his father and Cersei.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, The King Of Cooked Steak said:

Yup, that's exactly the fundamental reason why show-Tyrion is falling apart as a character in my eyes.

That part you mentioned about him watching the Lannister soldiers burning in horror is interesting. I don't think book-Tyrion would make jokes while people were burning alive, LOL, but he certainly wouldn't care too much. Also, I think it's Jaime's betrayal that put Tyrion over the edge in the books, and sent him on a path of self-loathing and depression (and to kill Tywin, of course). His brother was like the only person to ever claim to love him, yet he had a role in taking away the most important thing Tyrion craved, and that was actual love and happiness, which was manifested in Tysha. So in his eyes, currently in the books, he's just as guilty as his father and Cersei.

Perhaps making japes and laughing was the wrong way to put it. But I think he would be more in awe of the destruction laid down by the dragon that he would be caring for Lannister men, who would have no love for Tyrion, being killed. Lannister men that would be told before going to war that any sight they got of Tyrion, they had to take him alive back to Cersei or kill him and bring back his head.

Yes, Jaime's part in the betrayal over Tysha was far harder for Tyrion to take than Tywin's. Jaime was the only one who showed him any affection. Knowing his brother played a part in his biggest heartache surely would have been a bitter pill to swallow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

At the end of season 6, David Benioff said of Tyrion: "As long as she can trust him, which she does, he's the perfect advisor to her in the war for Westeros. He's the perfect Hand to the Queen."

Then he realized that Dany was so overpowered, her side would have to be dumbed down to the max just to make the war interesting and to keep Cersei alive. D&D don't actually want the audience to think that Tyrion is a fool. The plot just demanded that he become one, and not just him but everyone inexplicably ignoring the threat of Euron. Theon told Dany and Tyrion in Meereen that Euron had some of the Iron fleet already (Yara's side only took 100 ships) and was building more ships. Yet in season 7 no one on Dany's side made any mention of this danger before Euron's extremely predictable attack. Even Yara didn't mention it despite being strongly against Tyrion's plan. 

Edited by cade

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

'Arc...what arc?'  So true.  I love that one.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there's only so much screen time and Tyrion's role at this point is to be the chief counselor and adviser to Dany. I don't know what you all expect he should be doing other than that, especially now that we're nearing the end of the series. 

With something like 11-12 episodes left, there's a heck of a lot that still needs to get wrapped up. On that list: Arya's storyline, Sansa's storyline, Sam's storyline, Jaime's storyline, reveal of Jon's parentage, defeat Cersei and Euron, defeat the baddies north of the wall, and last but not least we need to get those two lovebirds Brienne and Tormund together.  So with all that, I wouldn't expect Tyrion to be more than a supporting character at this point. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Pecan...doesn't Tyrion deserve to have his storyline wrapped-up as well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Jcat said:

Hey Pecan...doesn't Tyrion deserve to have his storyline wrapped-up as well?

Well sure, but don't you think his destiny is more or less tied into the overall resolution? I mean, the big question in "The Game of Thrones" is who ends up on top at the end, and although there are a number of ways that could go, the general flow seems to point to Jon or Dany or possibly both. In either case, Tyrion will probably make out fairly well, either as Lord of Casterly Rock or Hand of the King/Queen (or both). 

Something as well that I just thought of, which is that in the books to come, he'll likely have a lot more to do because he'll be a major POV.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0