Was Drogo Turned into a Fire Wight?

[Valyirian Aurochs]

For those who haven't seen it: http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/

In that interview, he talks about fire wights.

We've seen ice wights; they're unintelligent and they don't talk. Like Small Paul when he turned into a wight and attacked Sam and Gilly in ASoS. But we've also seen an intelligent ice wight: Cold Hands. Lady Stoneheart and Berric Dondarion are most likely fire wights, and they are intelligent as they act in a rational way. Berric can talk and speak his mind, claiming that a part of him disappears every time he is brought back. Lady Stoneheart can't talk because of her wound (or perhaps she is an unintelligent fire wight being used as a puppet). If intelligent and non-intelligent ice wights exist, then the same is likely true for fire wights. Drogo could have been brought back to life. Who knows what Mirri Maz Dur did in that tent? Drogo was unconscious but alive (I think) when Mirri tended to him in there. She probably killed him in the tent and then resurrected him, making him into an unintelligent fire wight. 

Let me know what all of you think.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Thanks for sharing the link. Here are the relevant portions...

Quote

Q: You’re in unusual territory, with your characters very much still in your hands but also out in the world being interpreted for TV. Are you able to have walls in your mind such that your Daenerys, say, is your Daenerys, and Emilia Clarke’s Daenerys is hers and the show’s?

A: I’ve arrived at that point. The walls are up in my mind. I don’t know that I was necessarily there from the beginning. At some points, when David and Dan and I had discussions about what way we should go in, I would always favor sticking with the books, while they would favor making changes. I think one of the biggest ones would probably be when they made the decision not to bring Catelyn Stark back as Lady Stoneheart. That was probably the first major diversion of the show from the books and, you know, I argued against that, and David and Dan made that decision.

In my version of the story, Catelyn Stark is re-imbued with a kind of life and becomes this vengeful wight who galvanizes a group of people around her and is trying to exact her revenge on the riverlands. David and Dan made a decision not to go in that direction in their story, pursuing other threads. But both of them are equally valid, I think, because Catelyn Stark is a fictional character and she doesn’t exist. You can tell either story about her.

...

Q: Did Lady Stoneheart come about because it was hard to say a permanent goodbye to Catelyn?

A: Yeah, maybe. That may have been part of it. Part of it was also, it’s the dialogue that I was talking about. And here I’ve got to get back to Tolkien again. And I’m going to seem like I’m criticizing him, which I guess I am. It’s always bothered me that Gandalf comes back from the dead. The Red Wedding for me in Lord of the Rings is the mines of Moria, and when Gandalf falls — it’s a devastating moment! I didn’t see it coming at 13 years old, it just totally took me by surprise. Gandalf can’t die! He’s the guy that knows all of the things that are happening! He’s one of the main heroes here! Oh god, what are they going to do without Gandalf? Now it’s just the hobbits?! And Boromir, and Aragorn? Well, maybe Aragorn will do, but it’s just a huge moment. A huge emotional investment.

And then in the next book, he shows up again, and it was six months between the American publications of those books, which seemed like a million years to me. So all that time I thought Gandalf was dead, and now he’s back and now he’s Gandalf the White. And, ehh, he’s more or less the same as always, except he’s more powerful. It always felt a little bit like a cheat to me. And as I got older and considered it more, it also seemed to me that death doesn’t make you more powerful. That’s, in some ways, me talking to Tolkien in the dialogue, saying, “Yeah, if someone comes back from being dead, especially if they suffer a violent, traumatic death, they’re not going to come back as nice as ever." That’s what I was trying to do, and am still trying to do, with the Lady Stoneheart character.

Q: And Jon Snow, too, is drained by the experience of coming back from the dead on the show.

A: Right. And poor Beric Dondarrion, who was set up as the foreshadowing of all this, every time he’s a little less Beric. His memories are fading, he’s got all these scars, he’s becoming more and more physically hideous, because he’s not a living human being anymore. His heart isn’t beating, his blood isn’t flowing in his veins, he’s a wight, but a wight animated by fire instead of by ice, now we’re getting back to the whole fire and ice thing.

I think Drogo is in a different category than Beric and Catelyn since Drogo never actually died, but his life, such as it was, was kept alive by blood magic. I questioned here whether Khal Drogo was an offering for the Great Shepherd. 

Beric, and then Catelyn, were reanimated by the last kiss of R'hollr. Apparently, my old theory that the power of Beric and Catelyn comes from the Old Gods, not the Lord of Light was just a crackpot full of mumbo jumbo. I am going to have to revisit that idea, and see what I can salvage...

[White Ravens]

21 hours ago, Valyirian Aurochs said:

For those who haven't seen it: http://time.com/4791258/game-of-thrones-george-r-r-martin-interview/

In that interview, he talks about fire wights.

We've seen ice wights; they're unintelligent and they don't talk. Like Small Paul when he turned into a wight and attacked Sam and Gilly in ASoS. But we've also seen an intelligent ice wight: Cold Hands. Lady Stoneheart and Berric Dondarion are most likely fire wights, and they are intelligent as they act in a rational way. Berric can talk and speak his mind, claiming that a part of him disappears every time he is brought back. Lady Stoneheart can't talk because of her wound (or perhaps she is an unintelligent fire wight being used as a puppet). If intelligent and non-intelligent ice wights exist, then the same is likely true for fire wights. Drogo could have been brought back to life. Who knows what Mirri Maz Dur did in that tent? Drogo was unconscious but alive (I think) when Mirri tended to him in there. She probably killed him in the tent and then resurrected him, making him into an unintelligent fire wight. 

Let me know what all of you think.

 

Um, Lady Stoneheart can talk.  She had her throat opened by a dagger and she was dead for a few days after that but she does talk.  She needs to cover the gash in her throat to talk and she is hard to understand but she does in fact have the ability to communicate and is therefore not an unintelligent fire wight. 

[Bowen 747]

We have to remember that MMD was not really serious about bringing Drogo back to life.  She wanted revenge on Drogo not bring him back.  For all her claims that life meant nothing to her, she intended to survive.  So yeah, Drogo died and she brought back a mindless wight.  She could have brought back a functioning wight like Beric, but why would she do that.  She wanted to have an excuse and say, "I did what you asked and brought him back."  She was in no position to refuse.  It was a cop out.  She deliberately brought back an empty wight.  Beric was slowly losing himself.  I guess MMD just accelerated the process for Drogo. 

The Others don't want a wight with free will.  They just want a physical body that they can control.  We don't know that an ice wight can't function like Beric for a limited time.  But a wight with parts of its own mind working is not what the Others want.  They want an empty shell that they can use for their own purposes.

[Grover Bluejoy]

I made a post about a month or so ago bringing up a similar topic. I posited that there is a connection between what MMD did to Drogo and what Qyburn did to The Mountain, and that Drogo was only a step or two from being turned into, or something similar, to whatever is it is that Gregor Clegane became, AKA Ser Robert Strong.  

Remember, both MMD and Qyburn learned from Archmaester Marwyn. What, exactly either learned is not entirely clear at this point so we can only make (hopefully) educated guesses. Did MMD teach Marwyn something about spells, resurrecting or sustaining life? Or did MMD learn some type of life sustaining secrets from Marwyn? Which ever one is true, Qyburn had that knowledge passed to him and used it on The Mountain. 

I believe Marwyn may have discovered some connection "behind the scenes" (so to speak) between their (Maesters) science and medicine knowledge and the magic concerning life force, and the ability to resurrect or suspend their natural death. What happens afterwards to turn them more into a mindless wight, who knows. Is Ser Robert Strong more like an ice wight or something else entirely? 

To piggyback off that, I'm wondering if the magic is not quite as elemental as we're led to believe; that it exists as it's own entity or force, and humans have attributed the earth elements to it. It could even be that you have to use those elemental attributes to tap into it, so it might be that magic abilities are not necessarily genetic as we thought.

[Fishb20]

I'm with @Grover Bluejoy, i think that whatever frankenstein's monster Ser Robert Strong is similar as to what Drogo was before his death

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, Grover Bluejoy said:

I made a post about a month or so ago bringing up a similar topic. I posited that there is a connection between what MMD did to Drogo and what Qyburn did to The Mountain, and that Drogo was only a step or two from being turned into, or something similar, to whatever is it is that Gregor Clegane became, AKA Ser Robert Strong.  

Remember, both MMD and Qyburn learned from Archmaester Marwyn. What, exactly either learned is not entirely clear at this point so we can only make (hopefully) educated guesses. Did MMD teach Marwyn something about spells, resurrecting or sustaining life? Or did MMD learn some type of life sustaining secrets from Marwyn? Which ever one is true, Qyburn had that knowledge passed to him and used it on The Mountain. 

I believe Marwyn may have discovered some connection "behind the scenes" (so to speak) between their (Maesters) science and medicine knowledge and the magic concerning life force, and the ability to resurrect or suspend their natural death. What happens afterwards to turn them more into a mindless wight, who knows. Is Ser Robert Strong more like an ice wight or something else entirely? 

To piggyback off that, I'm wondering if the magic is not quite as elemental as we're led to believe; that it exists as it's own entity or force, and humans have attributed the earth elements to it. It could even be that you have to use those elemental attributes to tap into it, so it might be that magic abilities are not necessarily genetic as we thought.

That's a good point. But if the process was similar, shouldn't we have had some hint of shadows dancing in the black cells? 

[LordImp]

Interesting tought. But MMD dosen't really has a connection with fire has she? 

I agree with @Grover Bluejoy that Drogo is more similar to Strong than he is to Beric and LSH. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Ser Bonifer Hasty calls them revenants. I think that's a good distinction but most fans probably wouldn't care about the subtle differences, and wights is easier to say and spell.

I've got an archived theory about wighting from three years ago. The discussion delved into fire wights. Here's a link if anyone wants to read it.

[Grover Bluejoy]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 4:05 PM, Lost Melnibonean said:

That's a good point. But if the process was similar, shouldn't we have had some hint of shadows dancing in the black cells? 

True, and maybe that's where the flaw in my line of thinking is. However, if Qyburn's process was less magic and spells, and more medicine, that may explain where there were not the shadows in the black cells. But I could be wrong.

 

[White Ravens]

Drogo wasn't a fire wight because he wasn't dead yet.  He had a festering wound that was killing him when Danny asked Mirri Maz Duur to use her blood magic to take the life of the stallion to save Drogo's life.  When the ritual was over the wound was no longer festering but Drogo was now just a mindless shell.  A vegetable.  Dany smothered the life out of him and burned his corpse on the funeral pyre so, again, not a wight. 

 

 

[Damon_Tor]

On 8/8/2017 at 8:37 PM, Valyirian Aurochs said:

She probably killed him in the tent and then resurrected him, making him into an unintelligent fire wight. 

Drogo is kind of the opposite of a wight. Wights are unhealed bodies magically animated. Drogo was a healed body left unanimated. I think that's going to be an important distinction, later. IMO, Jon's resurrection will be a "true" resurrection because it combines several of the different methods for reanimation to eliminate their various weaknesses.

Minor crackpot I've thrown around in my head: Drogo was a latent skinchanger, which is part of why he's such an excellent rider (see: Lyanna) when he lost consciousness due to fever he had his NDE, opened his third eye, and "flew" into his horse. The moment when MMD killed Drogo's horse, she "killed" Drogo.

[Valyirian Aurochs]

6 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

Jon's resurrection will be a "true" resurrection because it combines several of the different methods for reanimation to eliminate their various weaknesses.

Very interesting, but it will be done my Melisandre who I don't think has ever performed a resurrection. But it might be revealed in the future that she has. She did train in Asshai so she might know of many ways to bring people back.

[Valyirian Aurochs]

On 8/12/2017 at 0:56 PM, Grover Bluejoy said:

I made a post about a month or so ago bringing up a similar topic. I posited that there is a connection between what MMD did to Drogo and what Qyburn did to The Mountain, and that Drogo was only a step or two from being turned into, or something similar, to whatever is it is that Gregor Clegane became, AKA Ser Robert Strong.  

Remember, both MMD and Qyburn learned from Archmaester Marwyn.

Very true. I think MMD failed because Jorah and Dany entered the tent when they were told to keep out.