The Bastard of Summer

Origins of the dagger...Is it important?

84 posts in this topic

29 minutes ago, Super Mario said:

'Chaos is a ladder' is actually a Littlefinger quote from one of the early seasons. Thats why LF looked so spooked, there's no way Bran could have known that without his 3 Eyed Raven super powers

Right, he was quoting a line LF said to Varys. Bran was just using LF's own words in order to get his attention.  

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On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 10:55 AM, Nerevanin said:

In fact he does because causing the war wasn't his only reason. He also wanted a revenge against House Stark for two reasons. First, Brandon Stark (Ned brother) humiliated him and nearly killed him when LF challenged him about Catelyn's hand and later he (LF) was expelled from Riverrun because of the duel. Second, Brandon later died, however another Stark married Catelyn. And of course another reason for the war could be Catelyn herself. Taking out Ned would be both a revenge and a way to make Catelyn free for marriage. Two birds killed with one stone.

Regardless of whether the assassination attempt succeeds or fails, it will lead to enmity between Stark and Lannister. Sure, he has no reason to love Starks, Tullys or Lannisters, but that still doesn't mean he needs war between any of them to pursue his goals. All he really needs is chaos: Lann vs. Stark, Lann vs. Tully and Stark, Lann vs. Tyrell, Tyrell vs. Stark, Dorne vs. everyone ... as long as the king's peace is broken Littlefinger benefits.

 

 

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I go back to the beginning.

When Jon Arryn figured out the incest, he was probably going to tell Robert, who would have had Cersei (and possibly the kids) killed. There would have been some political fallout with the Lannisters, but Tywin would not have gone to war over it. And Robert's oldest bastard might end up as king, which would probably be a short reign with way too many lords trying to take the throne afterward.

By having Lysa poison Jon, he prompted Robert to request Ned to be his Hand. By having her blame the Lannisters in a raven to Cat, Ned felt compelled to go to King's Landing and investigate, rather than politely decline. Littlefinger also probably predicted that Ned would go to Cersei instead of Robert to help her save herself and the kids, since the slaughter of the Targaryen children is what drove a wedge between Robert and Ned for so long. This put targets on Ned and Robert and was why both of them were ultimately killed.

Blaming the assassination attempt on Tyrion was clearly a lie, which begs the question of why he would do it? Well, he already framed the Lannisters with the above plot, so why not push Cat's impulsive hand to make a move and endanger Ned. Hence, the War of the Five Kings. Five kings all whacking at each other until the last one standing has very little strength remaining and will be pliable to Littlefinger's postwar influences and machinations, which will be required since he assisted the kingdom in becoming heavily indebted to the Lannisters and Iron Bank. And all the while, he supported Joffrey as king, because Joffrey was the worst thing that could happen to the Lannister and Baratheon houses. Until, of course, it was time to poison Joffrey and further destabilize the seat of power, at which time he furthered his plays for the Riverlands and the North.

And now Littlefinger presents the dagger to Bran, who quotes his summation of chaos. Why? I believe that Bran's letting him know that he's well aware that the assassination attempt was when Littlefinger set all that chaos into motion in his bid for the throne.

Or not. I don't know. I think it's reasonable for Littlefinger to be unnerved when Bran suddenly regurgitates any private statement he made, but to use those specific words as they sit with the dagger and its mystery between them indicates the above to me.

Edited by The Mediocre Other

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13 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Regardless of whether the assassination attempt succeeds or fails, it will lead to enmity between Stark and Lannister. Sure, he has no reason to love Starks, Tullys or Lannisters, but that still doesn't mean he needs war between any of them to pursue his goals. All he really needs is chaos: Lann vs. Stark, Lann vs. Tully and Stark, Lann vs. Tyrell, Tyrell vs. Stark, Dorne vs. everyone ... as long as the king's peace is broken Littlefinger benefits.

Well, that's definitely true. I just wanted to point out that creating choas wasn't probably his only goal (although probably the one with the highest priority) and that even though any major houses discontent would do, he started to pit the Lannisters and the Starks against each other, so he probably had a reason to do it, to pull House Stark into the politics, although they don't usually engage in it. But, yes, overall I agree with what you said. :) 

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