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Alfonso Sánchez

If you had to stop Drogon...

64 posts in this topic

25 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

First off the ballistae worked, secondly it's is cutting edge technology in the fact that nobody has made or used one before.

Yes more than 1 would have been ideal but as they have not invented mass production yet (ffs Qyburn) I am guessing most of them are protecting the capital.

Yes a net would be a good countermeasure but what is your delivery method? a catapult type device would not be accurate.

Canon! We have not seen fireworks but you are going to invent gunpowder and a delivery system in a few weeks/months come on people.

Whilst it indeed worked in bringing down the dragon, it didnt kill him, which was what cersei expected with all the balerion head demostration.

I recall reading that one dragon was either hurt or killed by a scorpion in a previous battle, so ballistae are not that novel, and the particular ballistae that was used was somewhat arcaic in energy accumulation...

I believe a net would prove too difficult to aim too, and cannons out of the question since not a single maester have used wildfire or black powder in that measure...

I think that whilst it is true that mass production is out of question, cersei had enough manpower to fabricate a couple more of them... We are after all, talking about several months since dany left mereen, and you gotta have noticed that a giant army with wailing dothrakis and dragons is approaching your kingdom.

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13 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

And specifically, a scorpion was used to kill Meraxes shortly after the conquest, so it's not even new dragonslaying technology.

Oh snap. So what the hell was Qyburn doing?

This is really making me think the arrow was poisoned. 

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Posted (edited)

I wonder how strong the wings are?  I massive number of arrows aimed at the wings might bring it down. Either rip the wings to tatters or fill them with enough arrows they're not effective.  This would also have the advantage of probably killing the rider.  I'm talking 5,000 archers giving everything they've got.

Edited by Forlong the Fat

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9 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

I would do the same thing : a single ballista, a single arrow from one ballista brought Drogon down so it made his job perfectly

I think that was more dany acting recklessly than anything, if drogon had flied in zig zag instead of directly at bronn i woukd have bet that a single shot wouldnt have landed

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23 minutes ago, elder brother jonothor dar said:

 

Canon! We have not seen fireworks but you are going to invent gunpowder and a delivery system in a few weeks/months come on people.

I know this, lol, didn't mean actual canon just not very good at explaining myself.

on other shows I've seen canon balls joined together that rip through ship hull, mast, sail.

we need something like that. two things joined that will hit the dragon from either side and knock it off balance or hit the wing in 2 places and rip the wing, get it right and it won't heal.

now I think about it, 2 ballista joined with barbed cored/wire would work.  if it hits and pierce the body good, if you miss the body you could still get the wing.  and lace it with poison.

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I would also try to use multiple ballistas or if I was Qyburn I would try and invent a Ballista that can either fire multiple arrows simultaneously or in sequence without reloading. The Greek possibly had a similar device called the Polybolos. In Mythbusters they recreated it, but it wasn't really stable.

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32 minutes ago, Alfonso Sánchez said:

I think that was more dany acting recklessly than anything, if drogon had flied in zig zag instead of directly at bronn i woukd have bet that a single shot wouldnt have landed

100% agree she's reckless, I get that she's angry and wants to take out that weapon, but, her dothraki are going to win by this point anyway. she should have taken drogon out of the battle and burnt the weapon later.

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There is only one way to stop Drogon, although unfortunately it is impossible at this point.  Send shirtless Ramsay Bolton and his 20 good men at Drogon.  If they can sneak into Stannis' camp and destroy all his food, siege weapons and light a horse on fire, I don't see why they couldn't destroy all of Dany's food supplies and ships, and light Drogon on fire.

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44 minutes ago, Alfonso Sánchez said:

I think that was more dany acting recklessly than anything, if drogon had flied in zig zag instead of directly

I guess she catched the virus "Rickon" before her flight

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Assassinate Daenerys. At least then Drogon would be an indiscriminate killing machine and wouldn't only be targeting Lannisters.

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1 hour ago, Lurid Jester said:

Oh snap. So what the hell was Qyburn doing?

This is really making me think the arrow was poisoned. 

Maybe there have been some advances. Bronn really did have an easy time aiming the thing. Ball bearings and perfect counterweights maybe? Maybe the fact that this was portable enough to be pulled on a wagon rather than be a permanent fixture on a fortress/ship?

47 minutes ago, Rubicante said:

There is only one way to stop Drogon, although unfortunately it is impossible at this point.  Send shirtless Ramsay Bolton and his 20 good men at Drogon.  If they can sneak into Stannis' camp and destroy all his food, siege weapons and light a horse on fire, I don't see why they couldn't destroy all of Dany's food supplies and ships, and light Drogon on fire.

So that's why Dany burned all the food! She knows the only way she can be beaten is if someone destroys her supplies and starves out her armies, but they can't destroy her supplies if she destroys them first. Genius!

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50 minutes ago, Rubicante said:

There is only one way to stop Drogon, although unfortunately it is impossible at this point.  Send shirtless Ramsay Bolton and his 20 good men at Drogon. 

I LOL'd

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4 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

Maybe there have been some advances. Bronn really did have an easy time aiming the thing. Ball bearings and perfect counterweights maybe? Maybe the fact that this was portable enough to be pulled on a wagon rather than be a permanent fixture on a fortress/ship?

So that's why Dany burned all the food! She knows the only way she can be beaten is if someone destroys her supplies and starves out her armies, but they can't destroy her supplies if she destroys them first. Genius!

Thats my whole point, from an engineering point of view, that ballistae's development was only the twisting base and the easiness to use, which in my opinion weren't portrayed when Qyburn showed Cersei its capabilities, from an energy accumulation point of view, it lacked severelly, since only tension arms were used, instead of rope springs and other things, the additional energy would have required 2 additional men to spring the ballistae, but is not as if Cersei was lacking manpower, bronn could have aimed whilst some footsoldiers would have armed such weapon.

I guess Dany did not know that the lannister emptied highgarden.

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1 hour ago, Forlong the Fat said:

I wonder how strong the wings are?  I massive number of arrows aimed at the wings might bring it down. Either rip the wings to tatters or fill them with enough arrows they're not effective.  This would also have the advantage of probably killing the rider.  I'm talking 5,000 archers giving everything they've got.

I guess this could be an option, but remember that the arrows lose kinetic energy the more they go upwards, so they would need to stand fast to Drogon diving to them directly spewing fire in order to have their arrows pierce his skin, and that is a tall order, i Imagine myself staring a Dragon diving directly to me spewing fire, knowing many of us are going to die and we may not even scratch his hide... The morale would need to be high...

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Here is a far out idea:

Along with a battery of ballistas, the defenses at King's Landing should include a mirror company to reflect the sun back at the dragonriders/dragons to confuse them, screw with the aim of their flamethrowers, and make them easier targets.

Duh...of course the dragons would have to attack on a sunny day.

At least they should fashion some fireproof shields for the ballista crews.

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5 minutes ago, Alfonso Sánchez said:

I guess this could be an option, but remember that the arrows lose kinetic energy the more they go upwards, so they would need to stand fast to Drogon diving to them directly spewing fire in order to have their arrows pierce his skin, and that is a tall order, i Imagine myself staring a Dragon diving directly to me spewing fire, knowing many of us are going to die and we may not even scratch his hide... The morale would need to be high...

You could design an anti-aircraft "arrow" with a simple gravity-based orientation trigger.

  1. Store the arrow head-down in a quiver.
  2. Nock the arrow and point at the sky. Pointing it at the sky arms the device (the trigger simply falls into the correct orientation).
  3. When the arrow reaches it's apex it flips over and the head of the arrow turns down towards the earth, triggering the explosive charge.
  4. Wildfire-propelled shrapnel explodes everywhere.

If you wanted to be very clever include a timing mechanism in the explosion, and if the orientation of the arrow changes (ie, it stops pointing straight down) in, say a second and a half, the explosion is cancelled. This would help to prevent accidental discharge if the arrow is dropped on the ground.

I don't get why the Citadel is still derping around doing nothing. Why aren't they inventing cool dragon-killing technology? At least Qyburn is trying to innovate, but he's just one guy.

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17 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

You could design an anti-aircraft "arrow" with a simple gravity-based orientation trigger.

  1. Store the arrow head-down in a quiver.
  2. Nock the arrow and point at the sky. Pointing it at the sky arms the device (the trigger simply falls into the correct orientation).
  3. When the arrow reaches it's apex it flips over and the head of the arrow turns down towards the earth, triggering the explosive charge.
  4. Wildfire-propelled shrapnel explodes everywhere.

If you wanted to be very clever include a timing mechanism in the explosion, and if the orientation of the arrow changes (ie, it stops pointing straight down) in, say a second and a half, the explosion is cancelled. This would help to prevent accidental discharge if the arrow is dropped on the ground.

I don't get why the Citadel is still derping around doing nothing. Why aren't they inventing cool dragon-killing technology? At least Qyburn is trying to innovate, but he's just one guy.

Could work too, but damn, it would be dangerous also for the guys shooting the device, considering that the wind is faster the higher you go, and the shrapnel could be propelled towards you, and also I am out of ideas for a timing device in such an environment, since a mechanical or hydraulic system would increase the drag of the projectile rendering it useless against a high flying dragon, and electronics are obviously out of question.

I wonder if Dany invulnerable to wildfire.

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41 minutes ago, Alfonso Sánchez said:

Could work too, but damn, it would be dangerous also for the guys shooting the device, considering that the wind is faster the higher you go, and the shrapnel could be propelled towards you, and also I am out of ideas for a timing device in such an environment, since a mechanical or hydraulic system would increase the drag of the projectile rendering it useless against a high flying dragon, and electronics are obviously out of question.

I wonder if Dany invulnerable to wildfire.

A fuse would suffice as a timer. The abort mechanism could just be a flame retardant fluid that spills onto the fuse if the arrow is dropped. Simple solutions are best solutions.

As to the issue of the shrapnel reaching the men on the ground, design the aerodynamics of the shrapnel to limit the kill zone to whatever is optimal. If your archers can reliably get the payload ~200m in the air then engineer the shrapnel to reach non-lethal velocity at ~160m from the point of origin, leaving you with a comfortable safety zone near the ground. It would basically be like getting pelted really hard with pebbles.

You could use crossbows to fire the devices as well for more predictable results.

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1 hour ago, Alfonso Sánchez said:

Could work too, but damn, it would be dangerous also for the guys shooting the device, considering that the wind is faster the higher you go, and the shrapnel could be propelled towards you, and also I am out of ideas for a timing device in such an environment, since a mechanical or hydraulic system would increase the drag of the projectile rendering it useless against a high flying dragon, and electronics are obviously out of question.

I wonder if Dany invulnerable to wildfire.

The Citadel isn't an agent of the Westerosi King or any political entity.  Maesters, real maesters, are neutral to politics.

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3 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

The Citadel isn't an agent of the Westerosi King or any political entity.  Maesters, real maesters, are neutral to politics.

but... what did I say about that?

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