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Alfonso Sánchez

If you had to stop Drogon...

64 posts in this topic

18 minutes ago, Damon_Tor said:

A fuse would suffice as a timer. The abort mechanism could just be a flame retardant fluid that spills onto the fuse if the arrow is dropped. Simple solutions are best solutions.

As to the issue of the shrapnel reaching the men on the ground, design the aerodynamics of the shrapnel to limit the kill zone to whatever is optimal. If your archers can reliably get the payload ~200m in the air then engineer the shrapnel to reach non-lethal velocity at ~160m from the point of origin, leaving you with a comfortable safety zone near the ground. It would basically be like getting pelted really hard with pebbles.

You could use crossbows to fire the devices as well for more predictable results.

I thought fuses were developed later...  I googled it, and whilst they appeared first in China in the 10th century, I dont recall them appearing in medieval warfare, and I wonder if the fuse would remain lit at those speeds... VERY interesting answer indeed :) 

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I don't think that wildfire would work... Dragon are fire made flesh.. Of what I remember from the Dance of Dragon Dragonfire couldn't really harm the dragon..the rider yes..but not the dragon.. Wildfire includes spells too.. But dragons are magical creatures. I remember that the birth of the dragons helped the pyromances' spells or sth like that..

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Posted (edited)

Poison the food where it hunts

that would probably be the first thing I'll do. You can avoid a lot of the conflict if I learn where it's eating. Figure that part out and just leave some poisoned food for a the dragon to scoop up

Edited by xjlxking

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Posted (edited)

19 hours ago, Alfonso Sánchez said:

I am very dissappointed by the whole "plan" to stop drogon... (really?, a ballista which only uses the tensile force of 2 wooden arms and 4 drawstrings??, thats what you have been working in for weeks if not months, Qyburn?, so much for the smartest guy Cersei has met), moreover, the demonstration given to Cersei sure was impressive... considering it was made indoors and the shot was made in an horizontal plane, considering that the gravity slows down the projectile in a parabolic shot... 

What would you have done?, would you have added ballistae with spring cords and stanchions (additional to the wooden arms and drawstrings) in order to give more strength to the shot?, additional ballistae?, poison the projectile?, a net?...

I do think that only by keeping drogon at bay with multiple ballistae shots would have helped the lannister cause a lot, since the dothraki are only light cavalry, which is ineffective against heavy infantry.

The Romans had massive ballistae that could launch a 150+ pound bolt. So, probably 8-10x the size/weight of the bolts that Bronn was firing. Of course a ballista that size wasn't mobile, it had to be constructed on site. They couldn't drag it around as they marched. Perhaps we will see something more substantive mounted in King's Landing.

Dragon scales or not, Drogon isn't surviving that.

Edited by Donaldys I Trumpagar
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47 minutes ago, Donaldys I Trumpagar said:

The Romans had massive ballistae that could launch a 150+ pound bolt. So, probably 8-10x the size/weight of the bolts that Bronn was firing. Of course a ballista that size wasn't mobile, it had to be constructed on site. They couldn't drag it around as they marched. Perhaps we will see something more substantive mounted in King's Landing.

Dragon scales or not, Drogon isn't surviving that.

Very true indeed, but there is some distance between the small ballista seen in the show and THAT... also, I would argue that such ballista would be hard to aim against a mobile target as nimble as drogon in the air

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47 minutes ago, Donaldys I Trumpagar said:

The Romans had massive ballistae that could launch a 150+ pound bolt. So, probably 8-10x the size/weight of the bolts that Bronn was firing. Of course a ballista that size wasn't mobile, it had to be constructed on site. They couldn't drag it around as they marched. Perhaps we will see something more substantive mounted in King's Landing.

Dragon scales or not, Drogon isn't surviving that.

Yeah definitely true

GRRM went the length trying to make it seem as if the dragons were unable to be killed despite us knowing they were killed in the past

i don't see why multiple Balista in key areas wouldn't be enough.

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Posted (edited)

Didn't Dorne hold off the dragons by doing gurrella warfare?

i know King's Landing doesn't have Dorne's landscape but they can probably still poison the food then hide and fire the ballista

And does anyone think a Kraken may appear for Euron? Probably unlikely but would be cool to see a Kraken fight a dragon

Edited by Crona

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2 hours ago, Crona said:

Didn't Dorne hold off the dragons by doing gurrella warfare?

i know King's Landing doesn't have Dorne's landscape but they can probably still poison the food then hide and fire the ballista

And does anyone think a Kraken may appear for Euron? Probably unlikely but would be cool to see a Kraken fight a dragon

Gorilla warfare?!?!?! :o 

http://shirtoid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/gorilla-warfare.jpg

I believe guerrilla warfare would make the trick, but Cersei can't run, since she has the seat of power, and if everything else fails, an attack on king landing would favor daenerys, she has been going easy on Cersei until now.

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What kind of poison kill a dragon?? A magical creature.. If Melisandre survived poison with the power of the Lord of the Light as she said, will a dragon, a gift from the Lord of light, fire made flesh, die from poison??

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1 hour ago, Styl7 said:

What kind of poison kill a dragon?? A magical creature.. If Melisandre survived poison with the power of the Lord of the Light as she said, will a dragon, a gift from the Lord of light, fire made flesh, die from poison??

They've kind of downplayed the whole Fire-made-flesh nature of dragons.  No spearheads melting inside Drogon in the fighting pit, no smoking molten blood. 

If a dragon is going to be killed by poison, it will be on the show.  If it happens they'll likely make some reference to the fight between Oberyn and the Mountain. 

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1 hour ago, Styl7 said:

What kind of poison kill a dragon?? A magical creature.. If Melisandre survived poison with the power of the Lord of the Light as she said, will a dragon, a gift from the Lord of light, fire made flesh, die from poison??

Magical or not, they have died before. They are tough to kill but even Tyrion in the books said that while the weapons used in the fighting pit were not good enough, that weapons did exist that could kill it

A venomous snake can still get killed if bitten by another venomous snake.

so I'd definitely try poisoning the food source as the first means.

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1 hour ago, Lurid Jester said:

They've kind of downplayed the whole Fire-made-flesh nature of dragons.  No spearheads melting inside Drogon in the fighting pit, no smoking molten blood. 

If a dragon is going to be killed by poison, it will be on the show.  If it happens they'll likely make some reference to the fight between Oberyn and the Mountain. 

Even I need the books, there are several implications that the very last dragons were poisoned. Poisoning the dragons' food source seems like a fairly sensible solution to me. Of course, the issue on the show is that Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion seem to primarily hunt around Dragonstone, so it would be difficult to get at their food/water supply

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A heavy ballista is not mobile enough to hit fast flying dragons. Even if there were a few such machines, it would take an extremely lucky shot to bring down one dragon. Perhaps a better idea would be to weigh them down. It has already been suggested to use as many archers as possible and that seems to be the right approach. Even if an arrow cannot pierce dragon scales, it could carry metal hooks and weights, so all it would take would be to land an arrow on a dragon. A much higher percentage shot than a ballista and with tens of thousands of opportunities rather than just a few.

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6 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Even I need the books, there are several implications that the very last dragons were poisoned. Poisoning the dragons' food source seems like a fairly sensible solution to me. Of course, the issue on the show is that Drogon, Rhaegal and Viserion seem to primarily hunt around Dragonstone, so it would be difficult to get at their food/water supply

Those dragons were the size of dogs.  It could be argued that if they were poisoned, then it was because their internal fire wasn't hot enough to burn it out.  

I don't think full grown healthy book dragons can be poisoned.  Their internal heat is just too high. If their blood can melt steel, I'd be willing to bet that it's hot enough to burn out any toxins.  

Show dragons though?  I can see it happen and even suspect it will happen.  Maybe not by poisoning a food source, but maybe by a wound like the Mountain was. 

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On 8/10/2017 at 3:38 AM, Alfonso Sánchez said:

I am very dissappointed by the whole "plan" to stop drogon... (really?, a ballista which only uses the tensile force of 2 wooden arms and 4 drawstrings??, thats what you have been working in for weeks if not months, Qyburn?, so much for the smartest guy Cersei has met), moreover, the demonstration given to Cersei sure was impressive... considering it was made indoors and the shot was made in an horizontal plane, considering that the gravity slows down the projectile in a parabolic shot... 

What would you have done?, would you have added ballistae with spring cords and stanchions (additional to the wooden arms and drawstrings) in order to give more strength to the shot?, additional ballistae?, poison the projectile?, a net?...

I do think that only by keeping drogon at bay with multiple ballistae shots would have helped the lannister cause a lot, since the dothraki are only light cavalry, which is ineffective against heavy infantry.

Well, I'd say that there is a technical issue that was solved even if not said.

To be able to use it (also in consideration of the angulation) as Bronn have done, it must have been very light.

Let's consider that this problem (in the reality - replacing dragons with airplanes) was solved only during the first world war, even if the airplanes were used for the first time in an attack during the Italo-Turkish war on 1911.

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8 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Those dragons were the size of dogs.  It could be argued that if they were poisoned, then it was because their internal fire wasn't hot enough to burn it out.  

I don't think full grown healthy book dragons can be poisoned.  Their internal heat is just too high. If their blood can melt steel, I'd be willing to bet that it's hot enough to burn out any toxins.  

Show dragons though?  I can see it happen and even suspect it will happen.  Maybe not by poisoning a food source, but maybe by a wound like the Mountain was. 

Internal heat?

 What

8 hours ago, Monster_Under_the_Bed said:

A heavy ballista is not mobile enough to hit fast flying dragons. Even if there were a few such machines, it would take an extremely lucky shot to bring down one dragon. Perhaps a better idea would be to weigh them down. It has already been suggested to use as many archers as possible and that seems to be the right approach. Even if an arrow cannot pierce dragon scales, it could carry metal hooks and weights, so all it would take would be to land an arrow on a dragon. A much higher percentage shot than a ballista and with tens of thousands of opportunities rather than just a few.

Even a heavy balista can hit drogo. Obviously, it won't be easy, but a balista can a dragon is li

 

8 hours ago, Monster_Under_the_Bed said:

A heavy ballista is not mobile enough to hit fast flying dragons. Even if there were a few such machines, it would take an extremely lucky shot to bring down one dragon. Perhaps a better idea would be to weigh them down. It has already been suggested to use as many archers as possible and that seems to be the right approach. Even if an arrow cannot pierce dragon scales, it could carry metal hooks and weights, so all it would take would be to land an arrow on a dragon. A much higher percentage shot than a ballista and with tens of thousands of opportunities rather than just a few.

If you're using one heavy Balista to try and hit a dragon, it would never work

 

but multiple Balista placed in a strategic location so if the dragon becomes stationary, it will get hit. The dragon have to be stationary in certain scenarios like we have seen before

 

But regardless, id still approach the method of poisoning the dragon  

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Poison would work if you knew what type of poison to use. However what's poisonous to you and me could be very different to a dragon. For example dark chocolate can be poisonous to dogs and certain plants are poisonous to cats that aren't poisonous to dogs or people. Without capturing a dragon and testing (good luck with that) it's hard to figure out what would work and what wouldn't.

So what are some other ways a dragon could die? Could you drown a dragon? They are so strong and powerful I don't know what you could use to keep under the water unless it was severely injured. Could lightening striking a dragon kill it? Again not enough info and that would take an act of God which u can't rely on.  I think fire is your best bet considering I saw one post say dragons killed smaller dragons with fire and if I remember correctly, it was said wildfire would burn anything, wood metal flesh it didn't matter. 

If it were me I would pick a spot and basically try to lay a trap for the dragon. Try and use the natural terrain to my advantage in whatever way I could. Then you have to figure a way to get the wildfire on the dragon itself, the more the better. If your up high maybe u get lucky and and your able to pour it on the dragon as it flies up the mountain. Or u cover the ground in it and try to lure the dragon to that spot. Set it ablaze with a fire arrow and pray like hell it works. I'm sure a lot of people would die in the attempt if it was even possible, however that's the approach I would take.

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1 hour ago, xjlxking said:

Internal heat?

 What?

Just to clarify, this is book dragons. Nothing in the show has suggested this.  

Quote
A Dance with Dragons -- Daenerys IX
 
Daenerys Targaryen vaulted onto the dragon's back, seized the spear, and ripped it out. The point was half-melted, the iron red-hot, glowing. She flung it aside. Drogon twisted under her, his muscles rippling as he gathered his strength.

There are also sections that describe the heat just coming off Drogon, and smoking blood seeping out of a wound.  Their breath (non-flame kind) is also hot enough to blister skin. 

Again though, this is all from the book. No mention of this has been made in the show and as a result I expect poison to be the end of Drogon. I'm willing to bet that Qyburn poisoned those scorpion bolts and Drogon's would will bring him down like the Mountain.

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1 hour ago, Lurid Jester said:

Just to clarify, this is book dragons. Nothing in the show has suggested this.  

There are also sections that describe the heat just coming off Drogon, and smoking blood seeping out of a wound.  Their breath (non-flame kind) is also hot enough to blister skin. 

Again though, this is all from the book. No mention of this has been made in the show and as a result I expect poison to be the end of Drogon. I'm willing to bet that Qyburn poisoned those scorpion bolts and Drogon's would will bring him down like the Mountain.

Yeah, I remember that part. It was a Tyrion chapter, but he also does comment that the only reason Drogon even got hurt was because he was not fully grown. Granted though, it does show that they can be hurt physically but it does take something big, not small like the spears being thrown at the rings.

As far as the show goes, yes, Poison is the way to go. Even then, they hyped up the dragons way too much that any way the show tries to show them go down will feel like a let down. GRRM introduced a possible magical item (Horn that Euron has) which will pit Dragon vs Dragon. Otherwise, the way GRRM portrayed them, they are un-killable. 

 

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My advice is to not fight drogon. Be dany's friend or whatever she wants and then walk away slowly. I don't see ballista's as a great way to fight a dragon more of a "well this is all we have" type of thing.

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