Zarina

General Reactions to the Reactions

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Posted (edited)

I love how season 7 gains intensity with every episode. 

There are also so many facial expressions that are left open for a wide verity of interpretations.Arya and Sansa's reunion was just slightly more emotional than the reunion with Bran, I feel like the reunions that the kids will have with Jon, would be the only satisfying ones, if recall Jon's reaction to Sansa, Jon’s heart will probably stop when he finally sees Arya, as was wisely noted by Sansa herself. 

I absolutely loved how Arya was not pleased with Jon’s leaving Sansa in charge, it was very much telling of what Arya still thinks of Sansa. I think she does remember Sansa standing there with the Lannisters by Joffry’s side, with their father publicly disgracing himself for Sansa. Knowing how Arya valued the nobility of her father and was/ is much like him, with a way deeper connection. My point is, even though Sansa would not be on Arya’s list, she is not on the list of her favorite people, I wouldn't count on Arya trusting Sansa. I think Arya always thought of Sansa as of dumb princess with no whites or honor in her. But may be I am too harsh on Sansa, I keep disliking her, even now, she just pieces me off with her feelings of entitlement. People around her win wars, become assassins, make right decisions that get them killed, and make them kings in the north etc. but none of those whom I have mentioned done it for the sake of being in charge, they have bigger pictures in their heads, to save the people, or to avenge their families. Sansa is more like Vyseries, vocally demanding the attitudes, the positions, and the titles that she believes she's entitled to. Agh... 

The dagger, I think is no coincidence, and who knows may be Arya will become Azor Ahai with her Valyrian steel blade, yes I know its a long stretch, but she was also reborn in a way. 

Bran’s retraction from Arya’s hand was also curious when he placed the dagger in her hands, felt like he put the destiny in her hands, and was struck by it himself. We can expect Bran to be the manipulator of fates now that he literally sees and fights every battle in his head, just like Littlefinger, but for reals… 

Sansa was so fond of herself being the ruler, let's be honest she’s pretty good at being a bookkeeper and a planner, but when she saw Arya spar with Brianne, oh boy, so many questions it left me with. 

First, her face has begun to change right when Arya confronted Brianne with being sworn to both Cat's daughters, which is true, and if Arya hasn’t dodged Brianne there at Riverlands in earlier seasons, who knows may be Sansa would be dead by now. I think Sansa had her pride hurt, by not being the only one with the sworn sword at her command. From psychological perspective yes, Arya is her baby sister, and of course, she’d want her to be protected, but the element of being in charge of her protection was meaningful to Sansa, I am sure, because, she always wanted to prove Arya's behavior and anti-ladyness wrong. I think that was a part of the reason why she didn’t share the info about the Knights of the Veil with Jon back in S6, cuz she wanted to be the savior of the day, not to save the day per se, but to be the savior. Although, as we all know Arya needs no protection, and she was shameless in flaunting it to all including the littlefinger, whose smile I want to touch upon after I finish with Sansa’s reaction at Arya’s fighting skills. 

 

So, Arya fights the way that makes Brianne proud, and Brianne being proud of one’s fighting, must mean tons. Silly, Arya fights the way that would make proud even Sirio Farrell, even if he is dead, which I am still not buying. In my opinion, Arya is the queen of sword and dagger, really I was impressed, I rewatched that moment like 5 times already. And I was so pleased with Her posture, confidence in her, so pleased. 

Sansa’s face was too much of a reaction, I think she had to do a much better job, and at least be a bit proud, but clearly she was either scared or jealous, may be envious. My immediate conclusion of her reaction was that she felt like she is the only Stark that has ended up being just the Lady, with no skills or powers, of course, its not true, she’s the lady of Winterfell, but really like that's a thing, if it wasn't for Jon or Littlefinger would she be the lady of Winterfell? Whatever title makes Sansa feel better Arya is the strongest although the youngest, Arya has her own code, she learned how to be strong by always remaining strong, by being faithful to herself, not by being exposed to various skimmers and wanting to be them. 

Arya never lived by the lady rules, and was always criticized by Sansa for that, and now, Arya comes out as such a confident, strong, and smart women, that despite everything that Sansa has thought she learned from Cersei or Littlefinger, she feels less than Arya, and certainly comes out as less, for me at least. 

When she left, the smirk on Littlefinger’s face, only told me that he regained hope in Sansa's need of him, and certainly expects her with her insecurities and desire for power, to come to him for support and ego boost, since she really needs someone at her corner exclusively. 

Honestly, I don’t see any other reason why Lord Belish would have the smile on his face. Some said that he thinks that he could use Arya as a tool, others that he sees Catelyn in her. But guys, Arya will never be anyone’s tool, even the faceless god couldn’t make her his tool, why would one assume little finger could. There is nothing Cat-like in Arya, remember, even in the books, she was all father's daughter, nothing from Tully, Sansa was actually calling her a bastard like Jon Snow since she had nothing from her mother. So, why, why does that little fucker smile?

Jon and Danny, too cute too fast…. but, oh my if Dany says -bend the knee one more time, I swear, I stop rooting for her. But, did he secretly bend the knee in the cave, did he promise to bend the knee after the war against the whites is won… or did he… well to be a bit humorous, we all know what effect have caved on Jon Snow…=))) and the way he grabbed her hand, already too familiar isn't he? 

The battle, surprisingly satisfying, the Dothraki doing their tricks with horses, epic, Jamie’s face, epic, Dragon appearing from the smoke or fog, epic… Dragon injured, almost broke my heart, I love Bron, but he is on my list now. 

Altogether, I believe the episode was satisfying, especially now that we evened the score and crashed Lannister forces. Does that mean that Lannister's don't have an Army anymore since Jamie mentioned something about taking the entire Lannister Army to HighGarden.

Also, still really want to further explore the Arya/Sansa looks and relationships. 

Edited by Zarina

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5 hours ago, Zarina said:

The battle, surprisingly satisfying, the Dothraki doing there tricks with horses, epic, Jamie’s face, epic, Drogon appearing from the smoke or for, epic… Drogon injured, almost broke my heart, I loved Bron, but he is on my list now. 

Bronn is on my hate list now.  Dany should have her bloodriders flay Bronn.  At least remove his sword hand and one testicle.

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4 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

Bronn is on my hate list now.  Dany should have her bloodriders flay Bronn.  At least remove his sword hand and one testicle.

Bronn has been on my hate list ever since this exchange:

Tyrion: Tell me, Bronn. If I asked you to kill a babe - an infant girl, say, still at her mother's breast - would you do it? Without question?

Bronn: Without question? No. I'd ask how much.

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The reason GoT is not your typical fantasy is illustrated in this episode.

Normally the fantasy element takes over and the characters come accross as cheesey due to the fantastical setting/events.

The reactions of the long lost siblings was grounded in reality, there was no Holywood happy ending with music in the back ground, the awkwardness reflected the shit that have gone through and the different people that haven become.

GoT is first and foremost a drama about people it just happens to be set in a land of snarks and grumpkins

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On 8/10/2017 at 9:27 AM, Wildling Queen said:

Bronn has been on my hate list ever since this exchange:

Tyrion: Tell me, Bronn. If I asked you to kill a babe - an infant girl, say, still at her mother's breast - would you do it? Without question?

Bronn: Without question? No. I'd ask how much.

I can understand that, however, to exclude a character from the favorites for an immoral phrase, in GoT, should we be watching that show at all then?... Besides, if that was the only thing that bothered you about Bron, unless you generally dislike him, which is totally cool, then perhaps try to consider this: 

Besides the fact that he is basically a freelance mercenary, Bron is cynical and doesn't give a f*ck about what others think, so just think, what kind of answer to the question he was asked, would be ok? Would it still be Bronn if he'd say something like, "that I wouldn't do" or "you crazy"...

Just because he said something cynical and generally bad, doesn't mean that he will in fact act upon it, if it came to it. Bron has his own sense of right and wrong, but he is not gonna share it with others. And, extream cynicisms like Bron's or Tyrion's is generally a defense mechanism that is meant to come out to others as though nothing can hurt them, so they "wear it like armor". 
 

 

 

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On 10/8/2017 at 3:46 AM, Zarina said:

Sansa was so fond of herself being the ruler, let's be honest she’s pretty good at being a bookkeeper and a planner, but when she saw Arya spar with Brianne, oh boy, so many questions it left me with. 

First, her face has begun to change right when Arya confronted Brianne with being sworn to both Cat's daughters, which is true, and if Arya hasn’t dodged Brianne there at Riverlands in earlier seasons, who knows may be Sansa would be dead by now. I think Sansa had her pride hurt, by not being the only one with the sworn sword at her command.

Not only she had her pride hurt, I thought that  she was particularly upset because Littlefinger heard that. I made a comment in another thread about this. LF knows Brienne as one of Sansa's great asests, she even threathened him with her "I just could say Brienne to kill you". Now he gets to find out that Brienne is not just Sansa's, and that is a weakness he can exploit. His only reason to be in Winterfell right now is to try to put the siblings against each other and take advantage of that (chaos is a ladder)... he needs to regain Sansa's trust, and there's no better way to do this than creating enemies for her and emerge as her"savior". 

 

On 10/8/2017 at 3:46 AM, Zarina said:

My point is, even though Sansa would not be on Arya’s list, she is not on the list of her favorite people, I wouldn't count on Arya trusting Sansa. I think Arya always thought of Sansa as of dumb princess with no whites or honor in her

Arya would never hurt Sansa, unless Sansa goes really dumb and hurts another family member. 

As you said, she didn't like that Jon left her on charge, and she does not trust her very much. To make things worse, Littlefinger there was not the way to make Arya more trusting on Sansa's good judgement. She remembers him from Harrenhal, and while Arya doesn't know the full extent of the harm he did to her family, she knows very well he was no friend of them and was working for Tywin when he was in war against  Robb.

That last look she gave him was cold as ice. And he now knows that SHE remembers. Perhaps that slight reverence he made was a way of showing respect to a worthy opponent. I have read elsewhere, and it is very feasible in my opinion, that of all the people who heard it,  given his family bravoosi's origins, LF was the only one who understood the "No one" with which Arya answered Brienne's question.

 

On 10/8/2017 at 3:46 AM, Zarina said:

Sansa was so fond of herself being the ruler, let's be honest she’s pretty good at being a bookkeeper and a planner, but when she saw Arya spar with Brianne, oh boy, so many questions it left me with. 

Exactly, and LF knows this... that is why him calling Bran "Lord Stark" was a test too, kind of thinking "Oh, good... more material to work with, let's see what can I do with this crippled kid... ", may be even thinking that he could potentially make this kid a puppet like he did with his cousin, or otherwise use Bran's position to undermine Sansa's one, thus making her turn to LF again for support or emotional comfort. Littlefinger does not know yet who Bran is, he  got a glimpse with that phrase "Chaos is a ladder", but he still has no idea of the depth and breadth of Bran's knowledge. Nobody has.

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On ‎10‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 4:46 PM, Zarina said:

I love how season 7 gains intensity with every episode. 

There are also so many facial expressions that are left open for a wide verity of interpretations.Arya and Sansa's reunion was just slightly more emotional than the reunion with Bran, I feel like the reunions that the kids will have with Jon, would be the only satisfying ones, if recall Jon's reaction to Sansa, Jon’s heart will probably stop when he finally sees Arya, as was wisely noted by Sansa herself. 

 

This is kinda cool given our latest info about Jon not having a beating heart.

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7 hours ago, Zarina said:

I can understand that, however, to exclude a character from the favorites for an immoral phrase, in GoT, should we be watching that show at all then?... Besides, if that was the only thing that bothered you about Bron, unless you generally dislike him, which is totally cool, then perhaps try to consider this: 

Besides the fact that he is basically a freelance mercenary, Bron is cynical and doesn't give a f*ck about what others think, so just think, what kind of answer to the question he was asked, would be ok? Would it still be Bronn if he'd say something like, "that I wouldn't do" or "you crazy"...

Just because he said something cynical and generally bad, doesn't mean that he will in fact act upon it, if it came to it. Bron has his own sense of right and wrong, but he is not gonna share it with others. And, extream cynicisms like Bron's or Tyrion's is generally a defense mechanism that is meant to come out to others as though nothing can hurt them, so they "wear it like armor". 
 

 

 

I understand that a lot of characters in GOT do not have the same moral code that I do. There are certain characters, like Jaime Lannister, who do things I would never do but I understand why they do them. But murdering a child for money? That's a little beyond my ability to understand. 

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Posted (edited)

On 10/08/2017 at 8:46 AM, Zarina said:

I absolutely loved how Arya was not pleased with Jon’s leaving Sansa in charge, it was very much telling of what Arya still thinks of Sansa. I think she does remember Sansa standing there with the Lannisters by Joffry’s side, with their father publicly disgracing himself for Sansa. Knowing how Arya valued the nobility of her father and was/ is much like him, with a way deeper connection. My point is, even though Sansa would not be on Arya’s list, she is not on the list of her favorite people, I wouldn't count on Arya trusting Sansa. I think Arya always thought of Sansa as of dumb princess with no whites or honor in her. But may be I am too harsh on Sansa, I keep disliking her, even now, she just pieces me off with her feelings of entitlement. People around her win wars, become assassins, make right decisions that get them killed, and make them kings in the north etc. but none of those whom I have mentioned done it for the sake of being in charge, they have bigger pictures in their heads, to save the people, or to avenge their families. Sansa is more like Vyseries, vocally demanding the attitudes, the positions, and the titles that she believes she's entitled to. Agh... 

The dagger, I think is no coincidence, and who knows may be Arya will become Azor Ahai with her Valyrian steel blade, yes I know its a long stretch, but she was also reborn in a way. 

Bran’s retraction from Arya’s hand was also curious when he placed the dagger in her hands, felt like he put the destiny in her hands, and was struck by it himself. We can expect Bran to be the manipulator of fates now that he literally sees and fights every battle in his head, just like Littlefinger, but for reals… 

Sansa was so fond of herself being the ruler, let's be honest she’s pretty good at being a bookkeeper and a planner, but when she saw Arya spar with Brianne, oh boy, so many questions it left me with. 

First, her face has begun to change right when Arya confronted Brianne with being sworn to both Cat's daughters, which is true, and if Arya hasn’t dodged Brianne there at Riverlands in earlier seasons, who knows may be Sansa would be dead by now. I think Sansa had her pride hurt, by not being the only one with the sworn sword at her command. From psychological perspective yes, Arya is her baby sister, and of course, she’d want her to be protected, but the element of being in charge of her protection was meaningful to Sansa, I am sure, because, she always wanted to prove Arya's behavior and anti-ladyness wrong. I think that was a part of the reason why she didn’t share the info about the Knights of the Veil with Jon back in S6, cuz she wanted to be the savior of the day, not to save the day per se, but to be the savior. Although, as we all know Arya needs no protection, and she was shameless in flaunting it to all including the littlefinger, whose smile I want to touch upon after I finish with Sansa’s reaction at Arya’s fighting skills. 

 

So, Arya fights the way that makes Brianne proud, and Brianne being proud of one’s fighting, must mean tons. Silly, Arya fights the way that would make proud even Sirio Farrell, even if he is dead, which I am still not buying. In my opinion, Arya is the queen of sword and dagger, really I was impressed, I rewatched that moment like 5 times already. And I was so pleased with Her posture, confidence in her, so pleased. 

Sansa’s face was too much of a reaction, I think she had to do a much better job, and at least be a bit proud, but clearly she was either scared or jealous, may be envious. My immediate conclusion of her reaction was that she felt like she is the only Stark that has ended up being just the Lady, with no skills or powers, of course, its not true, she’s the lady of Winterfell, but really like that's a thing, if it wasn't for Jon or Littlefinger would she be the lady of Winterfell? Whatever title makes Sansa feel better Arya is the strongest although the youngest, Arya has her own code, she learned how to be strong by always remaining strong, by being faithful to herself, not by being exposed to various skimmers and wanting to be them. 

Arya never lived by the lady rules, and was always criticized by Sansa for that, and now, Arya comes out as such a confident, strong, and smart women, that despite everything that Sansa has thought she learned from Cersei or Littlefinger, she feels less than Arya, and certainly comes out as less, for me at least. 

You have such a hate against Sansa!

The reason why Sansa has never told to Jon about the army of the Val is she knew that her brother would have used this advantage in a very bad way, he would have even wasted it. "I have seen worst than Ramsay Bolton, I have seen WW so I have seen everything." Look how angry he was when a girl tried to explain him what he didn't know, he just couldn't understand the necessity of adapting to the ennemy and he fell in Ramsay's trap (killing Rickon in front of him) while he just said the day before that they must wait for Ramsay to charge. He is not pragmatic, he doesn't think, he was not even able to see that Rickon shall die whatever he does. Excuse me, but Jon is just stupid, he is a soldier, not a leader. He just lead because he is a man, I can't wait to see what will happen when we shall learn that he is not even Ned Stark's son.

Would you give all your cards to such a leader, unable to listen to his advisers and act in consequence? A leader who get trapped so easily because he is incapable to control himself?

On 10/08/2017 at 8:46 AM, Zarina said:

Sansa is more like Vyseries, vocally demanding the attitudes, the positions, and the titles that she believes she's entitled to.

Sansa never asked for Winterfell, she even thought Bran should be in her place by the way.

About Sansa's face when she learns about Brienne/Arya and when she sees Arya fighting :

19 hours ago, LucyMormont said:

Not only she had her pride hurt, I thought that  she was particularly upset because Littlefinger heard that. I made a comment in another thread about this. LF knows Brienne as one of Sansa's great asests, she even threathened him with her "I just could say Brienne to kill you". Now he gets to find out that Brienne is not just Sansa's, and that is a weakness he can exploit. His only reason to be in Winterfell right now is to try to put the siblings against each other and take advantage of that (chaos is a ladder)... he needs to regain Sansa's trust, and there's no better way to do this than creating enemies for her and emerge as her"savior". 

^ This.

There is also another explanation to her face expression : she finally find her family back, but this is not what she imagined at all. Her family, the one of her memory, will never come back. All Stark children are dead in a way, they changed and her famly is now composed of soldiers, killers, and Charles Xavier. I just see melancholy in her eyes in this scene.

 

Excuse me if I made english mistakes, this is not my first language.

Edited by Infeth

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On 8/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, LucyMormont said:
On 8/11/2017 at 5:29 PM, LucyMormont said:

I have read elsewhere, and it is very feasible in my opinion, that of all the people who heard it,  given his family bravoosi's origins, LF was the only one who understood the "No one" with which Arya answered Brienne's question.

1

 

 

OMG, that is so true, I didnt even know that littlef*ckr's ancestors were from Braavos. 

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On 8/12/2017 at 10:58 AM, Infeth said:

You have such a hate against Sansa!

The reason why Sansa has never told to Jon about the army of the Val is she knew that her brother would have used this advantage in a very bad way, he would have even wasted it. "I have seen worst than Ramsay Bolton, I have seen WW so I have seen everything." Look how angry he was when a girl tried to explain him what he didn't know, he just couldn't understand the necessity of adapting to the ennemy and he fell in Ramsay's trap (killing Rickon in front of him) while he just said the day before that they must wait for Ramsay to charge. He is not pragmatic, he doesn't think, he was not even able to see that Rickon shall die whatever he does. Excuse me, but Jon is just stupid, he is a soldier, not a leader. He just lead because he is a man, I can't wait to see what will happen when we shall learn that he is not even Ned Stark's son.

3

Yes, I've grown to dislike Sansa since the beginning, its just something in her that repels me, despite her gorgeous looks and circumstances she's been through, I didn't learn to appreciate her. But, we all have our likes and dislikes, that is beside the point. 
 

Also, I agree that Jon was reluctant to listen to Sansa, but there was a moment when he offered her to expand on her critique, to suggest an alternate approach, to finally give him an adequate straight answer, but she didn't. Her arguments at the moment of her criticizing Jon would be weak in the real world as well since she has nothing to offer in return. Yes, we as an audience might know things, but we have to understand that the characters don't always know what other's think or know, they can only either assume, or be told. Yes, Jon is idealistic, but that is precisely why he differs from everyone else, he is pure and lacks manipulative abilities, but he will genuinely jump at an opportunity to save you without calculating the odds of being able to save you, that is the quality of a classic hero. 

Look how many pragmatic characters we had on the show, pragmatic is a good quality in our world, but even in our semi safe world, an inflated pragmatism implies a lack of courage. 

On 8/12/2017 at 10:58 AM, Infeth said:

Would you give all your cards to such a leader, unable to listen to his advisers and act in consequence? A leader who get trapped so easily because he is incapable to control himself?

 

Would you listen to an advisor who gives you no plausible alternative courses of action? 

 

On 8/12/2017 at 10:58 AM, Infeth said:

About Sansa's face when she learns about Brienne/Arya and when she sees Arya fighting :

^ This.

There is also another explanation to her face expression : she finally find her family back, but this is not what she imagined at all. Her family, the one of her memory, will never come back. All Stark children are dead in a way, they changed and her famly is now composed of soldiers, killers, and Charles Xavier. I just see melancholy in her eyes in this scene.

3

Right, melancholy, that's why she lost herself and left. I dont believe that that was a sad nostalgia on her face, but that is just my opinion. 

 

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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, Zarina said:

Yes, Jon is idealistic, but that is precisely why he differs from everyone else, he is pure and lacks manipulative abilities, but he will genuinely jump at an opportunity to save you without calculating the odds of being able to save you, that is the quality of a classic hero. 

Look how many pragmatic characters we had on the show, pragmatic is a good quality in our world, but even in our semi safe world, an inflated pragmatism implies a lack of courage. 

I guess I never really liked heroes, I find them weak and boring. Their courage makes them unrealistic to me, I always prefered smart, intellectual and apart characters, it may be because of my own lack of courage, I guess! :D

 

Btw Sansa's dress in the last episode was gorgeous, good, I needed to write it somewhere. ^_^

Edited by Infeth

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Posted (edited)

3 hours ago, Infeth said:

I guess I never really liked heroes, I find them weak and boring. Their courage makes them unrealistic to me, I always prefered smart, intellectual and apart characters, it may be because of my own lack of courage, I guess! :D

 

Btw Sansa's dress in the last episode was gorgeous, good, I needed to write it somewhere. ^_^

I mean, I wasnt trying to say that pragmatism is a bad quality overall, especially in a real world, where we mostly care about our safety y and safety of our families, I am quite pragmatic myself. I guess what I was trying to say is yes acting out of blind love, emotions, nacked courage or other selfless off plan urges is senseless, but sometimes it saves the world. And not to forget, khe-khe we are talking about the fantasy world with witches and dragons that is meant to have heroes. 

Yes I agree, Sansa's dress is magnificent, she always has most awesome dresses. To recall her Ramsey wedding dress, it was also stunning. I also love Dany's Westerosy outfits. 

Edited by Zarina

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