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Arya character arc

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18 minutes ago, AryaUnderfoot33 said:

Aww, I didn't know that. Really wish they'd kept that in, instead of focusing both Arya's reunions on her list. 

Basically yep. As much as I complain about them butchering Arya, she's fared much better than a lot of other characters. 

Im not sure I agree with a 'lot'. I think only 3 characters have been butchered as much or more than Arya - Jaime, Varys and Littlefinger.

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8 hours ago, AryaUnderfoot33 said:

I think if the books were already written than Arya's endgame wouldn't be likely to change, as it would be pretty glaring. But as no one knows about her fate D&D can just do what they want.

(For the record I really, really hope I'm wrong and Arya does live and does amazing things).

But they already said they would eventually come to the same ending as GRRM. If Arya was meant to do something big at the end or not die for example. If it's not happening in the books, I don't think they'll do that in the show for a main character endgame. 

What are the chances Arya ends up married by the end of the series? 

@Gaz0680 Doesn't Sansa have her own endgame? Why would they give her Arya's? If that was the case, they would just give her Nymeria and Arya's warging powers...etc. 

Edited by DutchArya

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1 hour ago, DutchArya said:

I think that will be important for future episodes where Arya - who is also styled and looks like Jon - will be defending him against the Northern Lords + Sansa who get frustrated that he isn't back from his trip down South. I think we'll see Arya making friends with Lyanna Mormont as well as they probably have a lot in common. 

S7 is setting up for everything that will come in S8. 

Do you think D&D will add some time jumps in the really long eps in the final season? The Long Night can't be over in just a few months considering the last one was a generation long. At least enough time for Dany to give birth at the very least. 

I really hope we get an Arya being more loyal to Jon and supporting him even from a distance. It will be very in character for book!Arya and fill in the gaps of the absent Jon/Arya relationship they've ignored for a lot of the series. (And the Jon-Gendry meet up happens, that would be a very natural way to bring up Arya and have them reminisce).

And yesss a Lyanna-Arya friendship would be amazing, let Arya reconnect with all the badass Northern women.

I think D&D will have to add time jumps. It will be super anti-climactic if the Long Night is over in like six months. The question is how. Theoretically, the war against the others could last a year or two over the length of a normal season, and then the show jumps forward years in the future to when winter itself fades away and summer comes? But then the walkers/winter are connected so it would make sense that when one is defeated the other goes away? And I suspect the war will end with seasons going back to the way they're supposed to/explaining what happened to make seasons last years. Or s8 will start already several years in the future? 

Idk, this season is already suffering from the shortened length and rushed pacing. The Dany vs. Cersei war that should be lasting ages is zipping through in a matter of weeks. (In comparison to the War of the 5 Kings which was spread over 20 episodes). They need to space out next season.

1 hour ago, DutchArya said:

But they already said they would eventually come to the same ending as GRRM. If Arya was meant to do something big at the end or not die for example. If it's not happening in the books, I don't think they'll do that in the show for a main character endgame. 

What are the chances Arya ends up married by the end of the series? 

@Gaz0680 Doesn't Sansa have her own endgame? Why would they give her Arya's? If that was the case, they would just give her Nymeria and Arya's warging powers...etc. 

I worry that the "same ending" is having a broader and broader meaning. I'm concerned the ending for Westeros/the war might be the same but different characters are involved.

The ending could be say, the Iron Throne is melted down and the kingdoms split up. But in the books Bran rules the North, while in the show it's Jon. Or the ending is reform and a more egalitarian society developing, but in the books Arya's advocates for the smallfolk, while in the show it's Sansa and Arya dies in battle. And the writers still classify that as the "same ending" because Westeros changes and the Stark lines continue. And while for Asoiaf Arya is central, D&D may not view her as such. 

It's things like replacing Jeyne Poole with Sansa and using her to suit less significant characters (Ramsay and Theon's stories), and killing off Stannis so ignominiously that makes me think that being a "big/central character" doesn't mean your plots are the same. You can be altered for the plot rather than vice versa. Granted, Stannis isn't as major as Arya.

And I worry Sansa might "take" Arya's - or Bran's for that matter - ending in some way, because GRRM may not have her ending as set in stone, given she wasn't one of the original characters and was created later). But idk, do you have ideas for Sansa's book end game? 

[Seriously, I'm very open to nice metas that completely disprove all this and are reassuring that Arya's ending will be the same. I definitely don't want any of it to be true]

Re: marriage for Arya...Not impossible imo. The original outline had romance - with Jon - as a central part of her story. She wasn't designed as a character who could never have a relationship. But she's so young in the books that an outright marriage doesn't seem likely until there's a time jump into the future. I think the final book will depict quite a long time after the Long Night and explore how Westeros recovers. GRRM will want to portray the realism of it, not "and they battle ended, they lived happily ever after." So if we go into the future, there's a chance Arya will be married/with someone imo. (Though certainly not a traditional marriage and not a proper love story that will take up lots of page time. If you want a happy relationship in the series your best bet is to be off-handily mentioned not depicted in detail. If there's detail, GRRM will end it badly/tragically).

Gendry is the only real romantic teasing she's had. Given we're 5 books and 7 seasons in, I think there's not much page time to develop another love interest unless Jon is still on the cards. So the optimist in me hopes that Arya and Gendry will reunite, probably both be involved in the fight against the others, Gendry won't die (ha), there's hints of something more and in a flashforward there's a passing mention they got married or something or just "and then Princess Arya and Gendry put in smallfolk reforms together". It does have some symbolic meaning in a Baratheon/Stark match finally working. But that seems overly idealistic, I'm interested what other people think beyond "Arya is too damaged to love anyone ever and will die/wander off/be a lone wolf forever/become No One" which seems to be everywhere.

Edited by AryaUnderfoot33

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1 hour ago, DutchArya said:

But they already said they would eventually come to the same ending as GRRM. If Arya was meant to do something big at the end or not die for example. If it's not happening in the books, I don't think they'll do that in the show for a main character endgame. 

What are the chances Arya ends up married by the end of the series? 

@Gaz0680 Doesn't Sansa have her own endgame? Why would they give her Arya's? If that was the case, they would just give her Nymeria and Arya's warging powers...etc. 

Arya is not a warg in the show, nor is Jon, Robb, Rickon or Sansa. In show universe, only Bran is.

While the broader strokes of the ending will be the same, I don't believe it will necessarily be the same for individual characters, including major ones.

The planning and writing of the show the past 3 seasons has been so dreadful with both character and plot development nonexistent or completely nonsensical. The storyline of characters and traits theyve been displaying in recent seasons suggest theyve been building toward different conclusions to their book versions. 

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I don't see Arya going south again. I think her story will be in the North from now on. The dagger is a reasonable clue that she will fight the White Walkers. Either in the North if the Wall is breached as in Sandor's vision or beyond the Wall as one of Jon's companions if he ventures out to find the NK.

I think Cersei's story will play out against Dany & Tyrion. Jaime will be the deciding factor here, will he switch side if Cersei goes mad enough? Will he stop her like he did the Mad King?

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2 hours ago, DutchArya said:

But they already said they would eventually come to the same ending as GRRM. If Arya was meant to do something big at the end or not die for example. If it's not happening in the books, I don't think they'll do that in the show for a main character endgame. 

What are the chances Arya ends up married by the end of the series? 

@Gaz0680 Doesn't Sansa have her own endgame? Why would they give her Arya's? If that was the case, they would just give her Nymeria and Arya's warging powers...etc. 

In the words of Stephen King, "It's the journey, not the destination, that matters." Or something like that, I may have butchered it. But even if D&D do the same ending as GRRM (and I think they will do the same general ending, but not all the characters will end exactly as GRRM planned, just the story, if that makes sense) the problem is how Arya is getting there, IMO. Her story is just so.... all over the place. In the book she is such a great and complex character. In the show .... I just don't get her.

2 hours ago, DutchArya said:

I think that will be important for future episodes where Arya - who is also styled and looks like Jon - will be defending him against the Northern Lords + Sansa who get frustrated that he isn't back from his trip down South. I think we'll see Arya making friends with Lyanna Mormont as well as they probably have a lot in common. 

S7 is setting up for everything that will come in S8. 

Do you think D&D will add some time jumps in the really long eps in the final season? The Long Night can't be over in just a few months considering the last one was a generation long. At least enough time for Dany to give birth at the very least. 

As far as Season 7 setting up Season 8. It doesn't seem like much set up is taking place. So far, with the exception of Jon and Dany meeting, everything is kinda the same.... Grant it a few characters are dead but everything else really hasn't changed that much.... When you really think about it. 

I think the long night will be over quick, judging off the time jumps now. I hope the final battle with the WW will take a full episode. But I think they are going to blow past a lot of the long night.

52 minutes ago, RedShirt47 said:

I don't see Arya going south again. I think her story will be in the North from now on. The dagger is a reasonable clue that she will fight the White Walkers. Either in the North if the Wall is breached as in Sandor's vision or beyond the Wall as one of Jon's companions if he ventures out to find the NK.

I think Cersei's story will play out against Dany & Tyrion. Jaime will be the deciding factor here, will he switch side if Cersei goes mad enough? Will he stop her like he did the Mad King?

I would think Jamie's character arc has to be getting rid of Cersei (though I know with my luck it won't happen this season even though it should....). It would be a good arc for Jamie if not only he finishes the valonqar prophecy but also starts as a kingslayer and ends as one/kinslayer. Doing what's right for the realm but getting judged, kinda thing.

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19 hours ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Bran gave her the valyrian steel dagger, many people didn't see that it was an untold invitation to the war on NK, she's not go to the south to kill Cersei, the fight against the NK is her destiny

Well, it is interesting that Bran was looking at her and he did not know where she would have ended...

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1 hour ago, Gaz0680 said:

Arya is not a warg in the show, nor is Jon, Robb, Rickon or Sansa. In show universe, only Bran is.

While the broader strokes of the ending will be the same, I don't believe it will necessarily be the same for individual characters, including major ones.

The planning and writing of the show the past 3 seasons has been so dreadful with both character and plot development nonexistent or completely nonsensical. The storyline of characters and traits theyve been displaying in recent seasons suggest theyve been building toward different conclusions to their book versions. 

But I think you're making the mistake of thinking D&D will get to the endgame in a logical way that requires sufficient built. They don't care about time frames, character motivations or basic consistency...etc. If they need a character to do something or be somewhere  - that's what they'll write towards. And again, regarding Arya specifically, they have already dropped hints you haven't really addressed yet. Why make a reference to the way she looks in Ep2? Or the fact that she has no problem being a called a Lady even though they were borrowing heavily from S1 setups/scenes/nostalgia which they could have injected into that moment before she sparred with Brienne. The take away: Arya is pretty and doesn't mind being a Lady.   

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2 minutes ago, DutchArya said:

But I think you're making the mistake of thinking D&D will get to the endgame in a logical way that requires sufficient built. They don't care about time frames, character motivations or basic consistency...etc. If they need a character to do something or be somewhere  - that's what they'll write towards. And again, regarding Arya specifically, they have already dropped hints you haven't really addressed yet. Why make a reference to the way she looks in Ep2? Or the fact that she has no problem being a called a Lady even though they were borrowing heavily from S1 setups/scenes/nostalgia which they could have injected into that moment before she sparred with Brienne. The take away: Arya is pretty and doesn't mind being a Lady.   

Touche about the D&D endgame..
As far as them dropping hints on her looks and being called a Lady.. what does that have to do with her arc? Of finding her pack? Of now (we can assume) going to fight WW and giving up on her list? She went through a lot of stuff that I would assume her feelings of what she is called is different. But none of that matters to what her purpose is in the story. Unless her purpose was to show that people change their mind of how people perceive them?

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39 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

In the words of Stephen King, "It's the journey, not the destination, that matters." Or something like that, I may have butchered it. But even if D&D do the same ending as GRRM (and I think they will do the same general ending, but not all the characters will end exactly as GRRM planned, just the story, if that makes sense) the problem is how Arya is getting there, IMO. Her story is just so.... all over the place. In the book she is such a great and complex character. In the show .... I just don't get her.

As far as Season 7 setting up Season 8. It doesn't seem like much set up is taking place. So far, with the exception of Jon and Dany meeting, everything is kinda the same.... Grant it a few characters are dead but everything else really hasn't changed that much.... When you really think about it. 

I think the long night will be over quick, judging off the time jumps now. I hope the final battle with the WW will take a full episode. But I think they are going to blow past a lot of the long night.

I would think Jamie's character arc has to be getting rid of Cersei (though I know with my luck it won't happen this season even though it should....). It would be a good arc for Jamie if not only he finishes the valonqar prophecy but also starts as a kingslayer and ends as one/kinslayer. Doing what's right for the realm but getting judged, kinda thing.

We just have to accept D&D's subpar writing and placing logical expectations on them doesn't seem to be right anymore. Whatever they end up doing, it will happen, shortcuts and all. Character consistency and a narrative that makes sense just isn't at the top of their priority list. For example, Arya had to leave Braavos, they didn't know how because GRRM never told them those details. So D&D wrote whatever to get from point A to point B which is what they will continue to do. 

I think we'll see more setup for S8 in the coming episodes. ;)

Yup with the time jumps they have to use... the Long Night needs wrap up in less episodes. 

 

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10 minutes ago, btfu806 said:

Touche about the D&D endgame..
As far as them dropping hints on her looks and being called a Lady.. what does that have to do with her arc? Of finding her pack? Of now (we can assume) going to fight WW and giving up on her list? She went through a lot of stuff that I would assume her feelings of what she is called is different. But none of that matters to what her purpose is in the story. Unless her purpose was to show that people change their mind of how people perceive them?

Well people have predicted many things for Arya's future and often the idea that she dies, or wanders off into the World unable to live a "normal" life with people because she is too damaged or a free spirit and is too wild or she just dies from seeking her bloodthirsty vengeance...etc. 

There doesn't seem to be any room for something where we see Arya settle down and the foreshadowing in the books suggests she may be forced to. The show is hinting at that different side to her personality which could dictate or hint at what she ends up doing.

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, DutchArya said:

But I think you're making the mistake of thinking D&D will get to the endgame in a logical way that requires sufficient built. They don't care about time frames, character motivations or basic consistency...etc. If they need a character to do something or be somewhere  - that's what they'll write towards. And again, regarding Arya specifically, they have already dropped hints you haven't really addressed yet. Why make a reference to the way she looks in Ep2? Or the fact that she has no problem being a called a Lady even though they were borrowing heavily from S1 setups/scenes/nostalgia which they could have injected into that moment before she sparred with Brienne. The take away: Arya is pretty and doesn't mind being a Lady.   

I wouldn't say it's a fact Arya has no problem being called a Lady just because she didn't object when Brienne called her one. I think she has just matured to the point she doesn't feel the need to argue that point because really, it isn't all that important and her focus is elsewhere.

I do agree with your point about D&D and it is true that Arya and any other character could end up at a destination that is different to what it appeared the arc was building to and which makes zero sense for the character.

 

Edited by Gaz0680

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5 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Well people have predicted many things for Arya's future and often the idea that she dies, or wanders off into the World unable to live a "normal" life with people because she is too damaged or a free spirit and is too wild or she just dies from seeking her bloodthirsty vengeance...etc. 

There doesn't seem to be any room for something where we see Arya settle down and the foreshadowing in the books suggests she may be forced to. The show is hinting at that different side to her personality which could dictate or hint at what she ends up doing.

If Arya is able to reintegrate with society as normal, that will break a literary mold of characters that become cold killers.

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5 hours ago, DutchArya said:

Well people have predicted many things for Arya's future and often the idea that she dies, or wanders off into the World unable to live a "normal" life with people because she is too damaged or a free spirit and is too wild or she just dies from seeking her bloodthirsty vengeance...etc. 

There doesn't seem to be any room for something where we see Arya settle down and the foreshadowing in the books suggests she may be forced to. The show is hinting at that different side to her personality which could dictate or hint at what she ends up doing.

I do not think the show has done any hinting toward Arya 'settling down'. There has been several hints Arya will have difficulty in going back to Winterfell and reuniting with family after all she has experienced. Personally, I think Arya meeting someone, falling in love then settling down into the traditional role of a Lady would be a really crappy end to her character arc. 

That said, I don't think it means she has to end up alone. Arya needs her pack. But she is a free, independent spirit and even in her own pack needs to be free to do things her own way.

As for Arya's future, yes, I do still fear D&D are going to kill her off and give her intended role after the war to Sansa. I am by no means certain that will happen, but there is plenty to suggest this and it is also fairly clear that the real character focus in Winterfell is on Sansa, not Arya or Bran. It worries me even more because Benioff has recently stated in an interview Sansa is his favourite character. I'm worried Arya is going to be the sacrificial main character death in Season 8.

 

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I think that Arya is now in Winterfell to make up for Jon's absence and to possibly stand up for him. Because his absence is fortuitous for Littlefinger and whatever his plans are. This whole Winterfell plot must be going somewhere because it's taking up too much screen time for it to be simply reports of crop gathering and new guards recruitment. 

Her endgame stumps me! It can be anything and everything except that she wouldn't be alone because she needs to find her pack. And I remember that GRRM's wife told him not to kill off Arya whatever happens, so chances are she'd be alive by the end of it all.  

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24 minutes ago, LifeRuiner said:

I think that Arya is now in Winterfell to make up for Jon's absence and to possibly stand up for him. Because his absence is fortuitous for Littlefinger and whatever his plans are. This whole Winterfell plot must be going somewhere because it's taking up too much screen time for it to be simply reports of crop gathering and new guards recruitment. 

Her endgame stumps me! It can be anything and everything except that she wouldn't be alone because she needs to find her pack. And I remember that GRRM's wife told him not to kill off Arya whatever happens, so chances are she'd be alive by the end of it all.  

If GRRM listens to his wife, he's a better man than I!!!

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I think that by the stories end, both Arya and Bran will end up leaving Winterfell permanently. Bran to take up his role as the Three-Eyed Raven in solitude somewhere, and Arya to follow in the footsteps of her hero, Nymeria, by traveling west in search of a new land and settling there. For those two characters, I feel like we're going to get a Frodo Baggins style end, where they're so changed by their experiences that there's no longer a place for them in their old lives, and they feel the need to move on far, far away from everyone and everything they've ever known.

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38 minutes ago, Thor Odinson said:

I think that by the stories end, both Arya and Bran will end up leaving Winterfell permanently. Bran to take up his role as the Three-Eyed Raven in solitude somewhere, and Arya to follow in the footsteps of her hero, Nymeria, by traveling west in search of a new land and settling there. For those two characters, I feel like we're going to get a Frodo Baggins style end, where they're so changed by their experiences that there's no longer a place for them in their old lives, and they feel the need to move on far, far away from everyone and everything they've ever known.

It does appear from that Winterfell is going to be the place converged upon by everyone for the main defence against the armies of the dead to prevent them going further South and killing everyone.

I think there's a reasonable chance most of the North and Winterfell itself may be completely destroyed (anot Theon-style burnt but utterly demolished) in the process and the ancestral home of the Starks will be gone forever.

One potential bittersweet ending certainly could be the destruction and death of most of the lands and people in the North, but the Starks survive and have to forge a new destiny. Their many thousands of years old history as leaders and protectors of the North would be brought to a close as the North as we now know it would no longer exist. The Starks would all need to find a new home (not necessarily together) and forge a new path for their family.

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On 2017. 08. 10. at 11:37 PM, Gaz0680 said:

D&D have been telling a VERY different story to GRRM, particularly in last 3 seasons, and have altered basically all of the characters personalities and abilities. 

In the books, Arya has a wide range of skills and abilities. She is intelligent, educated, street smart, speaks several languages, has learned stealth, manipulation and lie detection, has a head for numbers, has empathy and is not judgemental of others based on station in life yet is extremely vengeful and can be very ruthless. She also is a very powerful warg and this fact and her connection to her dire wolf Nymeria, even separated from her, is an important part of her story.

Martin has been setting Arya up to be a leader of some kind or major figure in the new Westeros (after war for dawn). She clearly wasnt created just to be 'badass' then die. That was Oberyn and others. Arya has been set up for much more.

Most likely, I believe her role will be a champion of the smallfolk or common people. 

In the show however, Arya is not a warg and D&D haven't focused on anything but her assassin and fighting abilities. Everything else is unexplored on show in any great detail.

I have grave concerns D&D are going to just kill Arya off as their next major character shock in Season 8 as ShowArya doesn't seem to really have much of a role in shaping future Westeros after war for Dawn like bookArya does. I think Sansa will be given any role Arya was meant to have post final battle with NK.

 

This. I think Arya will end up as some kind of leader in the books. 

That being said, I somehow doubt, that the main character's ending will be that different in the show and the books.  By main, I mean Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran and possibly Sansa, Jaime and Cersei.

Any one of them may die. If not, I believe Jon will sit on some kind of throne (North or IT), and Arya will decide to stay with him. It's him, she is going home to, not Winterfell. I think Bran will die - as the 3ER, I expect some kind of connection to the NK's power, and maybe he has to die, so the NK can be killed. Jaime will kill Cersei, so I'm pretty sure she will die, and Jaime, too. If not, he might become some kind of Lord somewhere, or he can continue as Kingsguard and keep protecting Rhaegars son.  Or Night's Watch, if it's still a thing after the Long Night 2.0.

But I don't know about Sansa. If Jon sits the Iron Throne, Winterfell will be hers, so she will get what she wanted. (and I'm not sure, I want that, LOL.)

Because, as others have noted above, Sansa is D&D's favourite. They dumbed Jon down so that Sansa would appear as more intelligent, and would shine in Winterfell as some mastermind (and I fail to see her as someone like that). Now, that Jon is gone, he somehow managed to regain common sense. But Arya arrived at Winterfell, and I'm seriously worried about how that will play out. And no, I don't think Sansa would betray Jon. But somehow I wonder, what kind of character-assassination will happen to Arya, so that once again Sansa will be the smart one and the one who solves problems (Littlefinger...). That being said, I don't mind if Sansa is the one who brings down Littlefinger - but I will be terribly upset if they dumb down Arya in order to do so. So I keep my fingers crossed that Sansa and Arya manages to work together, Sansa manipulating Littlefinger and Arya seeing through his bullshit, Bran providing some info, and in the end, Sansa can finish him.

 

On a side note - I have no idea how the season will end, whether Jon learns the truth about his parents, whether Cersei is defeated by Dany (I don't think she will die, but she might lose all her powers and allies, like Euron). Maybe Dany manages to take the Iron Throne, sits on it, and that's the end of the season. But whatever it is, and whoever seems like the winning side, I think  that will completely change in the last season, even if it's just 6 episodes. So I keep my fingers crossed, that even if in this season Sansa will outshine Arya in Winterfell (and sadly I expect her to do so), in the last season they will surprise us, and Arya might get something back from her book-character. 

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On 8/10/2017 at 1:58 PM, Pandean said:

I'm not sure. I think she has the dagger for a reason, most likely to fight against the NK and whatnot but other than that....I honestly can't see what her future is. Perhaps she dies during the fight? I'm not sure. Arya's endgame, character wise, is a mystery to me

She is going to stab mel with the dagger too. With killing Mel, it will put magic into her dagger. From what Mel says the fire is within her. Just an idea of how to make her Valriyan dagger more special. If that was to happen, it would be next season with Mel going to volantis this season. Also, with Mel and Arya's interaction before. Mel says to Arya we will meet agian.

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