40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 33 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: I've addressed and dismissed it several times in thread. The best "evidence"'is that everyone was wearing green same outfit. The best part of that evidence is ignoring where the hell anyone else gets burnt damn near to death by a dragon, excepting of course the half eaten crossbowmen Did you watch the PJ video? The actual source of this theory? Because that is not the evidence presented in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 38 minutes ago, Dorian Martell's son said: there is no need to address baseless crackpot arguments supporting theories founded in pure fantasy about someone else's magnum opus. Why do you feel it necessary to troll so many threads? Seriously? That is all I have ever seen you do. Troll troll troll troll troll like there is no tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Blizzardborn Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 9 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: Why do you feel it necessary to troll so many threads? Seriously? That is all I have ever seen you do. Troll troll troll troll troll like there is no tomorrow. I've seen DM make supportive comments. At least once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 15 minutes ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: Did you watch the PJ video? The actual source of this theory? Because that is not the evidence presented in the video. PJ would be politely described as beyond crackpot in my purview. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Universal Sword Donor Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 5 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: I've seen DM make supportive comments. At least once. I will confirm multiple supportive comments. He even told me my dornish red "expertise" was best bar none Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 19 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: I've seen DM make supportive comments. At least once. I believe you. But I personally see him comment in threads just saying something along the lines of "Nope, tinfoil." CONSTANTLY. It is actually quite annoying. Like if he wants to call it tinfoil and then add to the discussion, fine. But it is mostly just troll behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 16 minutes ago, Universal Sword Donor said: PJ would be politely described as beyond crackpot in my purview. LOL well, you have failed to address all his legit arguments then I don't think it is at all fair to describe PJ as beyond crackpot, but I DON'T WANT TO ARGUE ABOUT THE VALIDITY OF PJ HERE! That is a whole can of worms... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 47 minutes ago, Ethelarion said: I typically love these type of discussions and don't want to shit on anyones parade, but I'm curious why people (like @40 Thousand Skeletons) so easily dismiss the evidence he's dead but cling on the evidence he's alive. Could a switch have been made? Yes. Is it likely? Imo, no. If so, by who? And Why? And No, I'm not going to watch any PJ vid to find a motive, because I don't find them entertaining. He literally sees himself burn. And he shields his eyes with one arm, not his hands. So claiming he shouldn't be able to see himself is pretty speculative at best. You can shield your eyes from the sun, then look down and see yourself. I do like the oil on the whip thing, and the fact the brass isn't melting is suspicious. I don't know if my knowledge is lacking but what was the last time Rhaegal breathed fire before this incident. Maybe his fire is just a thad weaker than Drogon's. Have we ever seen Rhaegal melt metal? I also find the fact the knight says his Prince's eyes were pools and his skin gone to point to the fact he DOES recognize him, not he doesn't. All the evidence boils down to the fact Quentyn has an almost surreal experience burning, a style choice employed in almost all of literature/fiction and even non-fiction. How often do we see people looking at their gunshotwound and only then feeling the pain etc. I feel GRRM took a slight stylistic choice with the way of the burning that almost represents the way that Quentyn's and the stereotypical hero's optimism doesn't fade, even in the face of certain defeat/death. As he's burning he still thinks he'll ride a dragon and marry Dany, so he doesn't feel the pain, until all hope fades from him. Without any other evidence provided in further books I will continue to think people who believe Quentyn survived to be reaching. I do not "cling" to evidence, ser. I analyze the evidence. If you aren't going to bother watching the PJ video I am not going to bother rehashing the whole thing here. But I will address a couple key things since you called me out . This is Viserion's fire melting brass in that scene: Quote The crossbowman was fumbling for another quarrel as the dragon's teeth closed around his neck. The man wore the mask of a Brazen Beast, the fearsome likeness of a tiger. As he dropped his weapon to try and pry apart Viserion's jaws, flame gouted from the tiger's mouth. The man's eyes burst with soft popping sounds, and the brass around them began to run. The dragon tore off a hunk of flesh, most of the sellsword's neck, then gulped it down as the burning corpse collapsed to the floor. So it is very odd that the brass in Quentyn's whip handle does not melt. GRRM generally pays close attention to such details. And yes, I am aware that he had gold impossibly melting in a cooking pot in AGOT, but I would still expect him to have consistency within a single scene. I think Quentyn would have commented on the metal handle of his whip melting all over his hand. Additionally, the melting point of brass is lower than the temperature required to ignite leather. This means that barring author error, it was the oil in the whip, and not the leather itself, that was on fire. And really, if Quentyn was hit with full dragon flame, he shouldn't have any time to narrate what he sees. He should just scream and die immediately, which is not what happened. He even described shielding his eyes from a "furnace wind" which sounds like a description of hot dragon breath, and not dragon fire. And that scenario just makes way more sense based on Quentyn's narration: Quentyn shielded his eyes from Rhaegal's hot breath, the oil in his whip (which would have a relatively low flash point of around 400 degrees F) ignited and started spreading to his arm and his body, lighting Quentyn on fire, and then Quentyn, who was initially quite surprised at being on fire (understandably) starts to panic and scream. And the chapter ends. BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY: Quote Men make fires. Men cook mutton. Burnt bones prove nothing. GRRM has already pulled burning fake outs with both Mance and the Stark boys. Is it really so hard to believe he would do so with Quentyn? After all, the dead man's face was completely burned off, down to the skull, and his eyes were pools of pus (which seems inconsistent with Quentyn, who saw himself on fire). This man was unrecognizable, and we have no proof it was actually Quentyn. And Missandei, describing the dead man, said: Quote The tiny Naathi scribe looked up at his approach. "Honored ser. The prince is beyond pain now. His Dornish gods have taken him home. See? He smiles." which is a bit odd because Quote Smiles had never come easily for Quentyn Martell, any more than they did for his lord father. Could Quentyn be dead? Sure. And I wouldn't even be surprised. But I am betting he is alive. If you asked me to put a specific number on it, I would say there is an ~85% chance he is alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted August 12, 2017 Share Posted August 12, 2017 15 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: Why do you feel it necessary to troll so many threads? Seriously? That is all I have ever seen you do. Troll troll troll troll troll like there is no tomorrow. FYI the - word is a ban-able offence in these parts. Luckily, unlike other folks in here, I am not the type of person to resort to crying to mods when someone says something I don't like. To answer your question, please reread the sentence you quoted me on in your last reply. It summarizes everything. Now, go read those chapters in dance. 15 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said: I've seen DM make supportive comments. At least once. Thank you, and it was at least twice 15 hours ago, Universal Sword Donor said: PJ would be politely described as beyond crackpot in my purview. That is remarkably polite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 3 hours ago, Dorian Martell's son said: To answer your question, please reread the sentence you quoted me on in your last reply. It summarizes everything. Now, go read those chapters in dance. Obviously I have read those chapters. Your suggestion is pointless and condescending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dorian Martell's son Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 4 hours ago, 40 Thousand Skeletons said: Obviously I have read those chapters. Your suggestion is pointless and condescending. It isn't condescending and It isn't obvious to me by by the nature of you espousing this theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davjos Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 @40 Thousand Skeletons Thanks for the respons. I think clinging was the wrong choice of word (English remains a second language to me). I agree with you it's possible Quentyn didn't burn to death, but I still find it unlikely. I don't want to convince you you're wrong and it would honestly be more fun if you were right. But in my head/reading his internal thoughts go by very quickly. And therefore it's possible the brass hasn't melted yet. His eyes being puss is not inconsistent with him seeing himself burning since he sees himself burnING, not burned. It's a proces, even with a (semi-adult) dragon it would take a second or two. Long enough to reflexively pull up your arm and then look down. Him immediately seeing the brass melting would point at a temperature incredibly far exceeding the melting point, since it instantly started melting. And him smiling always pointed to a sense of relief that his mision is over. That he's done. He was sent on a shitty fucking hail mary of a task. His desperation in attempting to tame the dragon shows the (internal) pressure he felt. So (imo) he was just happy he was done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Ethelarion said: @40 Thousand Skeletons Thanks for the respons. I think clinging was the wrong choice of word (English remains a second language to me). I agree with you it's possible Quentyn didn't burn to death, but I still find it unlikely. I don't want to convince you you're wrong and it would honestly be more fun if you were right. But in my head/reading his internal thoughts go by very quickly. And therefore it's possible the brass hasn't melted yet. His eyes being puss is not inconsistent with him seeing himself burning since he sees himself burnING, not burned. It's a proces, even with a (semi-adult) dragon it would take a second or two. Long enough to reflexively pull up your arm and then look down. Him immediately seeing the brass melting would point at a temperature incredibly far exceeding the melting point, since it instantly started melting. And him smiling always pointed to a sense of relief that his mision is over. That he's done. He was sent on a shitty fucking hail mary of a task. His desperation in attempting to tame the dragon shows the (internal) pressure he felt. So (imo) he was just happy he was done. This is a totally legit explanation and I won't be surprised if you turn out to be correct. I just think it is more likely he is alive. Typically when major characters like Ned, Cat, and Robb actually die it is not ambiguous at all. And ambiguous deaths like Bran, Rickon, and Mance turn out to be fake. I think GRRM purposely left Quentyn's fate ambiguous because he is alive. If he was actually dead I think GRRM would have made it more definitive. But I could be wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 13, 2017 Share Posted August 13, 2017 1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said: It isn't condescending and It isn't obvious to me by by the nature of you espousing this theory. It isn't obvious to me by the nature of your statement that you know what the word condescending means. Here, let me help you out: condescending: adjective -having or showing a feeling of patronizing superiority. See how condescending I was just now? Because that's how your statements come across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cregan Storm Posted August 18, 2017 Author Share Posted August 18, 2017 @40 Thousand Skeletons I love you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40 Thousand Skeletons Posted August 18, 2017 Share Posted August 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Cregan Storm said: @40 Thousand Skeletons I love you Well if that's the case, then I love you too Cregan Storm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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