Katleesi

Longclaw [spoilers, probably]

38 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Styl7 said:

My dear friend who told you that Jon is the prince that was promised?

Oh you think he might not be? Okayyyyy....

3 hours ago, Gala said:

Agree. NW surely is more honourable than Tywin Lannister was. That bastard didn't give back the Ice!!!

That was to demonstrate Tywin's perfidy. 

I don't see Jorah would make a claim to the sword. He was disinherited for slaving and that stands. But restoring Longclaw to him might well happen - after Jon has Lightbringer.

Bran should know the location of Lightbringer.

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15 minutes ago, hallam said:

Oh you think he might not be? Okayyyyy....

That was to demonstrate Tywin's perfidy. 

I don't see Jorah would make a claim to the sword. He was disinherited for slaving and that stands. But restoring Longclaw to him might well happen - after Jon has Lightbringer.

Bran should know the location of Lightbringer.

Well I remember reading "Azor Ahai shall be reborn amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons out of stone".. Anyway the dragon has three heads.. And I don't doubt he is one of these heads..

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33 minutes ago, hallam said:

Oh you think he might not be? Okayyyyy....

That was to demonstrate Tywin's perfidy. 

I don't see Jorah would make a claim to the sword. He was disinherited for slaving and that stands. But restoring Longclaw to him might well happen - after Jon has Lightbringer.

Bran should know the location of Lightbringer.

That's assuming a lot, like that Lightbringer is real and not a myth and Jon is "Azor Ahai."  I feel like a lot of people don't realize Azor Ahai is an Essos legend that no one in Westeros knows about or talks about

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27 minutes ago, Styl7 said:

Well I remember reading "Azor Ahai shall be reborn amidst salt and smoke to wake dragons out of stone".. Anyway the dragon has three heads.. And I don't doubt he is one of these heads..

The show hasn't shown that prediction and it may well differ significantly on this point.

But besides lightbringer, Jamie is carrying Widows Wail which is half of Ice. It is thus a Stark ancestral sword.

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In my post I took for granted that the Azor Ahai prophecy that came from Asshai is the the prin that was promised. I also don't believe that Lightbringer is an existing sword or a sword at all.. 

12 minutes ago, hallam said:

The show hasn't shown that prediction and it may well differ significantly on this point.

But besides lightbringer, Jamie is carrying Widows Wail which is half of Ice. It is thus a Stark ancestral sword.

The prophecy I mentioned refers to Azor Ahai.. Azor Ahai was never mentioned in the show(so was Rhillor) so you might be right.. I don't doubt he is one of the three heads of the dragon..but that wasn't in the show either..

i don't know how Jon will take Widows wail, maybe if Daenerys take him as a prisoner will give it to him.. If she knows it's his house sword..

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11 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Uh.. it makes perfect sense. Jeor Mormont was a very honorable man who took the black in Jorah's place since Jorah fled Westeros.  

Jon saved him from wights so as a sign of appreciation he gave the sword to Jon. Makes sense to me. 

What I don't get is why Jeor brought the sword with him to the wall in the first place. If Ned had taken the black back in book 1, would he have brought Ice?  Seems like he probably would have left it at Winterfell.  

Maybe for Jeor, since he was paying for his son's sins, he brought Longclaw as additional cost?  

No, it doesn't. Valyrian Steel swords are priceless treasures. You don't give them away, even if someone saves your life. There's quite a bit in the books about this. But, I suspect GRRM may not have quite worked this out in when he wrote AGOT, and that's why it happened the way it did.

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3 hours ago, Styl7 said:

In my post I took for granted that the Azor Ahai prophecy that came from Asshai is the the prin that was promised. I also don't believe that Lightbringer is an existing sword or a sword at all.. 

The prophecy I mentioned refers to Azor Ahai.. Azor Ahai was never mentioned in the show(so was Rhillor) so you might be right.. I don't doubt he is one of the three heads of the dragon..but that wasn't in the show either..

i don't know how Jon will take Widows wail, maybe if Daenerys take him as a prisoner will give it to him.. If she knows it's his house sword..

The book has two separate prophecies. One is the prophecy that drove Rheagar and the Mad King against each other, the other is Melisandre's Prince who was promised. We have not got the first in the show yet but it is clearly part of the backstory. I don't think we have had the second in the terms as in the book. Thoros refers to Azor Ahai rather than TPWWP but since he is also a red priest it seems it was the same person.

The Reborn part makes it seem like Jon is literally reborn as TPWWP. And I suspect that has to do with Fake Aegon and a lot of stuff cut from the show because they don't want to recast Jon Snow mid way through. They cut Cersei's prophecy back as well. 

If lightbringer did survive, it is surely the sword Dawn of house Dayne which is unique. It was also with Lyanna when she died. I suspect it will be found in her tomb.

As for Widow's wail, I suspect Jamie will tell Danny who it belongs to. She needs Jon as much as he needs her.

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Posted (edited)

ignore please, my memory was off and this no longer made sense

Edited by Mikkel
I misremembered

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Let us not forget Bloodraven also  took a family valyrian steel sword to the wall too. ...where that one  is we may never know. Unless thst dagger turns out to be dark sister.....doubt it but it could happen.  Bloodraven could have left it with Aemon and Aemon could  have sent it to Rhaegar.....but naw probably  not

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3 hours ago, hallam said:

The book has two separate prophecies. One is the prophecy that drove Rheagar and the Mad King against each other, the other is Melisandre's Prince who was promised. We have not got the first in the show yet but it is clearly part of the backstory. I don't think we have had the second in the terms as in the book. Thoros refers to Azor Ahai rather than TPWWP but since he is also a red priest it seems it was the same person.

The Reborn part makes it seem like Jon is literally reborn as TPWWP. And I suspect that has to do with Fake Aegon and a lot of stuff cut from the show because they don't want to recast Jon Snow mid way through. They cut Cersei's prophecy back as well. 

If lightbringer did survive, it is surely the sword Dawn of house Dayne which is unique. It was also with Lyanna when she died. I suspect it will be found in her tomb.

As for Widow's wail, I suspect Jamie will tell Danny who it belongs to. She needs Jon as much as he needs her.

The wake dragons out of stone? How does this fit in the book version to Jon?

And why would Jaime say that? I mean he will be prisoner..will he give a shit about the sword not being his?.. Unless he somehow believe about the Great War and understand that the valyrian steel is a way to kill WW.. Right now Jon needs her more since she has 3 dragons that can kill wights.. But this is not Jon's war.. This is the war for humanity.. This is the battle for the dawn.. So yes everyone is needed for the Great War.. Dany needs Jon for that.. 

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22 minutes ago, Styl7 said:

The wake dragons out of stone? How does this fit in the book version to Jon?

And why would Jaime say that? I mean he will be prisoner..will he give a shit about the sword not being his?.. Unless he somehow believe about the Great War and understand that the valyrian steel is a way to kill WW.. Right now Jon needs her more since she has 3 dragons that can kill wights.. But this is not Jon's war.. This is the war for humanity.. This is the battle for the dawn.. So yes everyone is needed for the Great War.. Dany needs Jon for that.. 

Prophecy is like a sword without a handle.

The prophecies do seem to be ambiguous between the two. Danny isn't a sword fighter so far as we know though.

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14 hours ago, Styl7 said:

It was Lord Mormont's decision to give it to Jon.. The Weserosi tradition would give it to Jorah, but Jeor chose Jon..

Jorah actually had the sword before he was exiled, but he left it at Bear Island before he fled Westeros.

also, to this dude:

16 hours ago, mykeuva said:

That part you spoke of makes sense.

The part that doesn't really make sense is why Jeor, upon leaving to go to the wall to take the black, would take his family's heirloom sword with him. It was in his family's possession for generations, and he was leaving for the wall, forsaking his name/titles/possessions. Why did he take the sword, which by all accounts is more valuable than the entire worth of many houses? He should have left it in the Mormont family on Bear island, not taken it with him to the north. It's the Mormont family sword.

Jeor didn't take it with him when he took the black, it was brought to him by his aunt Maege after Jorah fled. After that he basically stashed it away because it was a painful reminder of Jorah's crimes <_<

 

also jeor gave it to jon not just because he saved jeor's life, but because he was being groomed to be lord commander

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20 hours ago, hallam said:

...

That was to demonstrate Tywin's perfidy. 

...

As if this character needs more actions to proof/show his perfidy. The person who is responsible for the Sack of King's Landing or Reyne's destruction does not need additional introduction of his lack of any kind of honour, but the Ice thing was low - he didn't have any right for that sword.

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8 minutes ago, Gala said:

As if this character needs more actions to proof/show his perfidy. The person who is responsible for the Sack of King's Landing or Reyne's destruction does not need additional introduction of his lack of any kind of honour, but the Ice thing was low - he didn't have any right for that sword.

What kind of right would he need... Eddart died in the hands of his house.. He was responsible for the Red Wedding.. 

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11 minutes ago, Styl7 said:

What kind of right would he need... Eddart died in the hands of his house.. He was responsible for the Red Wedding.. 

Do not understand this point, except that it just supports my idea. Even after Ned's death and Red Wedding the House Stark existed... for one, Sansa was in KL. So it's not an excuse, rather Red Wedding just adds more to Tywin jerkiness.
Arthur Dayne died because of Ned, but he still went to Starfall and brought back the Dawn. I know, I know comparing Ned and Tywin is an idiotic idea since they complete opposites.

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2 hours ago, Gala said:

Do not understand this point, except that it just supports my idea. Even after Ned's death and Red Wedding the House Stark existed... for one, Sansa was in KL. So it's not an excuse, rather Red Wedding just adds more to Tywin jerkiness.
Arthur Dayne died because of Ned, but he still went to Starfall and brought back the Dawn. I know, I know comparing Ned and Tywin is an idiotic idea since they complete opposites.

I don't disagree with you.. Just think about it.. Tywin was always jealous of other house ipeven smaller than his (like Mormont's) because house Lannister didn't have a Valyrian Steel Sword.. And he got the chance to get 2.. Tywin is not even close to Ned..

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On 8/10/2017 at 3:49 PM, Katleesi said:

 If Ser Jorah shows up on Dragonstone while Jon is hanging about with Longclaw, does Jon give the sword to Jorah? Jon needs Valerian steel to fight walkers, but he's too MF honorable, and knows it's a Mormont sword.

On the other hand, he didn't offer it up to Lady Mormont, who probably deserves it more.  

So GLAD Jon did the right thing and had the discussion with Jorah!!!! It was - literally the only thing that made epsiode 6 sufferable. 

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