NFL 2017 Preaseason: Zeke the Freak to Sit 6 Weeks

[Maithanet]

23 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I just heard a funny concept on the radio. How good would the Jacksonville Brown Jets be, and who would be their starting QB?

They would be very good at every position except quarterback.  Hard to say who wins the quarterback job.  Cody Kessler maybe? 

[DanteGabriel]

1 minute ago, Maithanet said:

They would be very good at every position except quarterback.  Hard to say who wins the quarterback job.  Cody Kessler maybe? 

Even ignoring the running joke at both QB positions, I am not sure which Jets could actually win starting jobs on the Jags. A couple of guys from the defensive line, maybe an offensive lineman?

[Maithanet]

16 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Even ignoring the running joke at both QB positions, I am not sure which Jets could actually win starting jobs on the Jags. A couple of guys from the defensive line, maybe an offensive lineman?

The Jets are the least talented team in the league, but it's still the NFL.  DE Mo Wilkerson, CB Mo Claiborne, RB Bilal Powell, DT Steve McLendon, DE Leonard WIlliams, OT Kelvin Beachum, and S Jamal Adams would all be contributors to this hybrid superteam. 

[DanteGabriel]

25 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

The Jets are the least talented team in the league, but it's still the NFL.  DE Mo Wilkerson, CB Mo Claiborne, RB Bilal Powell, DT Steve McLendon, DE Leonard WIlliams, OT Kelvin Beachum, and S Jamal Adams would all be contributors to this hybrid superteam. 

Powell would start over Fournette? Beachum was cut by the Jaguars (or they declined his option for 2017) and they drafted a tackle to replace him, so that's a questionable call too. It's a pretty grim list, considering the Jags are, well, the Jags.

[Maithanet]

54 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Powell would start over Fournette? Beachum was cut by the Jaguars (or they declined his option for 2017) and they drafted a tackle to replace him, so that's a questionable call too. It's a pretty grim list, considering the Jags are, well, the Jags.

Not neccesarily start, but he would contribute, the guy can play.  Didn't know about Beachum; I'm not a Jets fan so I just went with the guys I could find quickly that I know had some talent. 

EDIT:  Also, the main reason the Jags are the Jags is because of their miserable quarterback situation.  Thier defensive DVOA was 12th in the league last year, and with plenty of young talent there's reason to think it'll continue to improve.  Their WR/RB situation isn't bad either.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

The Jets are the least talented team in the league, but it's still the NFL.  DE Mo Wilkerson, CB Mo Claiborne, RB Bilal Powell, DT Steve McLendon, DE Leonard WIlliams, OT Kelvin Beachum, and S Jamal Adams would all be contributors to this hybrid superteam. 

Superteam is too strong, unless you’re using the term to highlight the combining of the three teams. Sure you could build a good defense with the three rosters, and you’d have some alright skill position guys too, but the QB situation would still be a nightmare. I doubt the team would win more than 6 games.

[DanteGabriel]

1 hour ago, Maithanet said:

Not neccesarily start, but he would contribute, the guy can play.  Didn't know about Beachum; I'm not a Jets fan so I just went with the guys I could find quickly that I know had some talent. 

EDIT:  Also, the main reason the Jags are the Jags is because of their miserable quarterback situation.  Thier defensive DVOA was 12th in the league last year, and with plenty of young talent there's reason to think it'll continue to improve.  Their WR/RB situation isn't bad either.

To be honest, I only know much about Beachum because he was on an episode of Fixer Upper, getting a house renovated for his parents. So I notice when his name comes up in transactions.

Fair point about the Jags roster. Maybe the Browns would make a better combo partner for the Jets.

[Maithanet]

26 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Superteam is too strong, unless you’re using the term to highlight the combining of the three teams. Sure you could build a good defense with the three rosters, and you’d have some alright skill position guys too, but the QB situation would still be a nightmare. I doubt the team would win more than 6 games.

6 games?!  The betting over/under on the Jags for this year is 6 wins.  You think that wouldn't go up if they had Leonard Williams, Jaime Collins, Mo Claiborne and Myles Garrett? With decent coaching they have a top 5 defense without a doubt. 

On offense the Browns O line is probably a top 10 unit this year, that would be a dramatic improvement from what Jacksonville has, let alone adding in whatever pieces the Jags and Jets could contribute for depth.

Even with a journeyman quarterback, this is a playoff team.  If things really gel on defense, they could win a Super Bowl.  Don't tell me a great defense can't win a Super Bowl without a quarterback, the Broncos did it less than two years ago. 

[Joe Pesci]

@Pony Queen Jace

https://sports.yahoo.com/trent-richardson-resurfaces-canada-171946929.html

Your boy is back!

 

[briantw]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

They would be very good at every position except quarterback.  Hard to say who wins the quarterback job.  Cody Kessler maybe? 

Kessler can't even win the starting job on the Browns.

My money would be on Kizer.  Bortles is godawful.  Henne isn't much better.  Osweiler made one of the best receivers in the league look like absolute dog shit last year.  I don't even know who the Jets' starting QB is, but I assume he's terrible.  Kessler is just the QB equivalent of a shrug.  Probably better than anyone I've listed save Kizer, simply because he's a game manager who makes limited mistakes (unlike Bortles, for example, who is a walking mistake)

Kizer has looked good in the preseason and is likely to win the starting battle for the Browns.  If not in week one (they may hold him back to give him more development time while Osweiler loses them some games to secure another high draft pick), then certainly after the bye week.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

4 hours ago, Maithanet said:

6 games?!  The betting over/under on the Jags for this year is 6 wins.  You think that wouldn't go up if they had Leonard Williams, Jaime Collins, Mo Claiborne and Myles Garrett? With decent coaching they have a top 5 defense without a doubt. 

On offense the Browns O line is probably a top 10 unit this year, that would be a dramatic improvement from what Jacksonville has, let alone adding in whatever pieces the Jags and Jets could contribute for depth.

Even with a journeyman quarterback, this is a playoff team.  If things really gel on defense, they could win a Super Bowl.  Don't tell me a great defense can't win a Super Bowl without a quarterback, the Broncos did it less than two years ago. 

Not really, no. And if I had made them the New York Brown Jaguars, it would have gone down. Sure there would be improvements to the current Jags team, but I don't think they would make that much of a difference. Only a couple of Jets' and Browns' players would replace the Jags starters, and I'm not sure how great the impact would be if they're still left with a bad QB situation in which a raw rookie might be their starter. Now if you took that team and signed Kaep, you'd have a solid squad that could win 10 games. 

[Maithanet]

15 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Not really, no. And if I had made them the New York Brown Jaguars, it would have gone down. Sure there would be improvements to the current Jags team, but I don't think they would make that much of a difference. Only a couple of Jets' and Browns' players would replace the Jags starters, and I'm not sure how great the impact would be if they're still left with a bad QB situation in which a raw rookie might be their starter. Now if you took that team and signed Kaep, you'd have a solid squad that could win 10 games. 

The Broncos won the Super Bowl with a terrible quarterback.  Not a so-so quarterback, not a mediocre quarterback, a really terrible one.  And the Jets/Browns/Jags would be more talented than that Denver squad. 

I don't have a PFF subscription, so I can't break down how dominant each player on these teams is, but a combined team would be better than Denver's, and I don't think it would be particularly close.  In 2015 Denver had a mediocre O line (17th in DVOA).  In comparison Cleveland's 2017 O line is ranked #2 on PFF, and they could take guys from Jacksonville and NYJ to help with depth. 

Their front 7 on defense would be more talented than Denver's.  The linebackers lack one dominant guy like Miller, but PFF ranks their units at #14 (Jax), #18 (NYJ) and #24 (CLE).  So there's talent there.  If you take Jacksonville's unit and add talented guys like Leonard Williams, Myles Garrett and Jamie Collins, you've got a helluva squad.  And of course, when you combine three teams, depth is going to be far better than what Denver had. 

On the secondary, Jacksonville is already ranked 6th for 2017, and you could take standouts from Cleveland (Joe Haden if he's healthy and Jamar Taylor) and NYJ (Mo Claiborne was excellent last year, Jamal Adams).  That's gonna be a great unit and great depth.

Running backs?  Well, a unit with Leonard Fournette, Isaiah Crowell and Bilal Powell is going to have no trouble running through holes the O line opens up.  This is clearly better than what Denver had in 2015 (in case you're forgetting, CJ Anderson was the starting running back for Denver, and he was ranked 28th in the NFL that year on FO. 

Offensive weapons?  The Browns have two TEs in Barnridge and first rounder Njoku.  Take the Jags recievers and add in Britt and Coleman, you've got a solid and very deep squad. 

Across the board, this is a better unit than what Denver had in 2015.  The only problem is quarterback.  And while Kessler looks like he isn't going to win the starting job in Cleveland, if the Brown Jaguars Riding Jets had this much talent, they'd probably go with the experienced, mediocre guy to avoid rookie mistakes.  And with this much talent around him?  Kessler might join Trent Dilfer in worst QB to win the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick would make this team a SB favorite, they're far more talented than the SF teams he led to the NFCCG. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

The Broncos won the Super Bowl with a terrible quarterback.  Not a so-so quarterback, not a mediocre quarterback, a really terrible one.  And the Jets/Browns/Jags would be more talented than that Denver squad. 

I don't have a PFF subscription, so I can't break down how dominant each player on these teams is, but a combined team would be better than Denver's, and I don't think it would be particularly close.  In 2015 Denver had a mediocre O line (17th in DVOA).  In comparison Cleveland's 2017 O line is ranked #2 on PFF, and they could take guys from Jacksonville and NYJ to help with depth. 

Their front 7 on defense would be more talented than Denver's.  The linebackers lack one dominant guy like Miller, but PFF ranks their units at #14 (Jax), #18 (NYJ) and #24 (CLE).  So there's talent there.  If you take Jacksonville's unit and add talented guys like Leonard Williams, Myles Garrett and Jamie Collins, you've got a helluva squad.  And of course, when you combine three teams, depth is going to be far better than what Denver had. 

On the secondary, Jacksonville is already ranked 6th for 2017, and you could take standouts from Cleveland (Joe Haden if he's healthy and Jamar Taylor) and NYJ (Mo Claiborne was excellent last year, Jamal Adams).  That's gonna be a great unit and great depth.

Running backs?  Well, a unit with Leonard Fournette, Isaiah Crowell and Bilal Powell is going to have no trouble running through holes the O line opens up.  This is clearly better than what Denver had in 2015 (in case you're forgetting, CJ Anderson was the starting running back for Denver, and he was ranked 28th in the NFL that year on FO. 

Offensive weapons?  The Browns have two TEs in Barnridge and first rounder Njoku.  Take the Jags recievers and add in Britt and Coleman, you've got a solid and very deep squad. 

Across the board, this is a better unit than what Denver had in 2015.  The only problem is quarterback.  And while Kessler looks like he isn't going to win the starting job in Cleveland, if the Brown Jaguars Riding Jets had this much talent, they'd probably go with the experienced, mediocre guy to avoid rookie mistakes.  And with this much talent around him?  Kessler might join Trent Dilfer in worst QB to win the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick would make this team a SB favorite, they're far more talented than the SF teams he led to the NFCCG. 

While I appreciate the stats, this argument doesn’t change my mind at all, and I think your comparison is really off base. The 2015 Broncos had an all time great defensive. The combination of these three teams cannot replicate it, or even come close IMO. Furthermore, while Manning was more limited physically than any of the QBs on the Browns, Jets and Jags, he was still sharper mentally than all of them, and that’s what he used to drag his corpse over the finish line. Maybe this hypothetical team could win more than 6 games, but they are no where close to winning an Owl.

[Maithanet]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

While I appreciate the stats, this argument doesn’t change my mind at all, and I think your comparison is really off base. The 2015 Broncos had an all time great defensive. The combination of these three teams cannot replicate it, or even come close IMO. Furthermore, while Manning was more limited physically than any of the QBs on the Browns, Jets and Jags, he was still sharper mentally than all of them, and that’s what he used to drag his corpse over the finish line. Maybe this hypothetical team could win more than 6 games, but they are no where close to winning an Owl.

What I'm saying is simple.  If you take a good defense (the Jags) and add the top players from two other NFL teams you would have an excellent defense.  This is really obvious to me.  Are you saying that adding Leonard Williams, Jaime Collins and several capable DBs would result in only a marginal improvement of the Jags defense? 

Manning was mentally great, but that didn't change the fact that he couldn't play anymore.  The Denver 2015 offense was 25th in the league in both passing and total DVOA.  That's awful.  Or perhaps you're referring to Manning's stellar postseason numbers, where in three games he had 2 tds, 1 int, 55% complete and a passer rating of 75?  You don't think Cody Kessler (with a career qb rating of 92) could manage that kind of mediocrity?  I'm sure that with a much better O line and better running backs that this team would be much better than the very low bar of Denver's 2015 offense. 

But whatever, I've obviously put a lot more work into this argument than you have, and it seems like you're just repeating yourself without providing any backup at all to your opinions. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Matthew Stafford’s name has been mentioned a lot lately because he’s up for a new contract, and there’s a brutal stat that’s being brought up too. He’s 5-46 against teams who end the season with a winning record. Yikes!

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

3 hours ago, Maithanet said:

The Broncos won the Super Bowl with a terrible quarterback.  Not a so-so quarterback, not a mediocre quarterback, a really terrible one.  And the Jets/Browns/Jags would be more talented than that Denver squad. 

I don't have a PFF subscription, so I can't break down how dominant each player on these teams is, but a combined team would be better than Denver's, and I don't think it would be particularly close.  In 2015 Denver had a mediocre O line (17th in DVOA).  In comparison Cleveland's 2017 O line is ranked #2 on PFF, and they could take guys from Jacksonville and NYJ to help with depth. 

Their front 7 on defense would be more talented than Denver's.  The linebackers lack one dominant guy like Miller, but PFF ranks their units at #14 (Jax), #18 (NYJ) and #24 (CLE).  So there's talent there.  If you take Jacksonville's unit and add talented guys like Leonard Williams, Myles Garrett and Jamie Collins, you've got a helluva squad.  And of course, when you combine three teams, depth is going to be far better than what Denver had. 

On the secondary, Jacksonville is already ranked 6th for 2017, and you could take standouts from Cleveland (Joe Haden if he's healthy and Jamar Taylor) and NYJ (Mo Claiborne was excellent last year, Jamal Adams).  That's gonna be a great unit and great depth.

Running backs?  Well, a unit with Leonard Fournette, Isaiah Crowell and Bilal Powell is going to have no trouble running through holes the O line opens up.  This is clearly better than what Denver had in 2015 (in case you're forgetting, CJ Anderson was the starting running back for Denver, and he was ranked 28th in the NFL that year on FO. 

Offensive weapons?  The Browns have two TEs in Barnridge and first rounder Njoku.  Take the Jags recievers and add in Britt and Coleman, you've got a solid and very deep squad. 

Across the board, this is a better unit than what Denver had in 2015.  The only problem is quarterback.  And while Kessler looks like he isn't going to win the starting job in Cleveland, if the Brown Jaguars Riding Jets had this much talent, they'd probably go with the experienced, mediocre guy to avoid rookie mistakes.  And with this much talent around him?  Kessler might join Trent Dilfer in worst QB to win the Super Bowl.  Kaepernick would make this team a SB favorite, they're far more talented than the SF teams he led to the NFCCG. 

Jesus. No one breaks down hypotheticals like Maith. What are we naming this juggernaut? I've been unable to come up with a hybrid name that I've been happy with.

[Maithanet]

6 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Jesus. No one breaks down hypotheticals like Maith. What are we naming this juggernaut? I've been unable to come up with a hybrid name that I've been happy with.

Thanks man.  You don't like the Brown Jaguars riding Jets?  It reminds me of this.

Brown Jaguars are they most dangerous jaguars.  They attack from above.  You won't hear them coming.  They're faster than the speed of sound. 

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

2 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Thanks man.  You don't like the Brown Jaguars riding Jets?  It reminds me of this.

Brown Jaguars are they most dangerous jaguars.  They attack from above.  You won't hear them coming.  They're faster than the speed of sound. 

It's weird that you would bring up that Calvin and Hobbes cartoon, as it was the first image that sprung to mind. I dig the concept, and the logo would be fucking amazing, but the name lacks the simple power of Tyrannosaurs in F-14's, ya know? I like where you're going with this, but I think you'd better sit down with the creative guys and give it some floor time. See if it plays.

 http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/snl-vince-vaughn-delco-cat-toys/81932162/

[Maithanet]

2 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

It's weird that you would bring up that Calvin and Hobbes cartoon, as it was the first image that sprung to mind. I dig the concept, and the logo would be fucking amazing, but the name lacks the simple power of Tyrannosaurs in F-14's, ya know? I like where you're going with this, but I think you'd better sit down with the creative guys and give it some floor time. See if it plays.

 http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/snl-vince-vaughn-delco-cat-toys/81932162/

I'm totally in favor of changing the Jaguars to the Tyrannosaurs.  This is obviously the NFL team name change we should all be lobbying for. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

What I'm saying is simple.  If you take a good defense (the Jags) and add the top players from two other NFL teams you would have an excellent defense.  This is really obvious to me.  Are you saying that adding Leonard Williams, Jaime Collins and several capable DBs would result in only a marginal improvement of the Jags defense? 

Of course it would be an improvement, maybe a big one, but it's not going to make them an all time great defense. I feel like that should be obvious. 

11 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Manning was mentally great, but that didn't change the fact that he couldn't play anymore.  The Denver 2015 offense was 25th in the league in both passing and total DVOA.  That's awful.  Or perhaps you're referring to Manning's stellar postseason numbers, where in three games he had 2 tds, 1 int, 55% complete and a passer rating of 75?  You don't think Cody Kessler (with a career qb rating of 92) could manage that kind of mediocrity?  I'm sure that with a much better O line and better running backs that this team would be much better than the very low bar of Denver's 2015 offense. 

I completely agree, which highlights my point above. The 2015 Denver defense was an all time great defense. So great that it dragged a bad offense with a QB who couldn’t play anymore to a title. I’m sure the offense this hypothetical team could produce would be better than the 2015 Broncos’ offense, but the overall team wouldn’t be close to the 2015 Denver Broncos.

22 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

But whatever, I've obviously put a lot more work into this argument than you have, and it seems like you're just repeating yourself without providing any backup at all to your opinions. 

Come on man, I’m at work. I don’t have the time to write you an essay on why three of the least talented rosters in the NFL combined would still be a meh team.