Poll: What would you have preferred?

[HighAndMightyBrightness]

Let's just say that - instead of the Others that we know presently - George RR Martin decided to start the series with the 'Fire Others' murdering Waymar Royce. The religious fanatic 'helping' everybody else would be of the Ice Element; Melisandre would be cold to the touch. For at least 5 books, the 'Fire Others' is the ultimate, looming threat.

Assume that the story line everywhere else is completely the same. Would you like the story more? Or would you think that the 'Fire Others' are gay?

Heck, Would the story -incredibly- still be the same to you? 

I am looking forward to reading some interesting posts. 

 

[Damon_Tor]

27 minutes ago, HighAndMightyBrightness said:

Let's just say that - instead of the Others that we know presently - George RR Martin decided to start the series with the 'Fire Others'

I'm pretty sure that's exactly what the humans are to the Others.

[TMIFairy]

41 minutes ago, HighAndMightyBrightness said:

Assume that the story line everywhere else is completely the same. Would you like the story more? Or would you think that the 'Fire Others' are gay?

I would love the Others to be gay and on a crusade to murder all heterosexual folk.

Under rainbow banners they mach and "Death to breeders!" is their warcry!

[Clegane'sPup]

2 hours ago, HighAndMightyBrightness said:

Let's just say that - instead of the Others that we know presently

I would ask you if there is any reference or hint in the ASOIAF books that a three fingered tree hugger stabbed a man in the chest with a dragonglass/obsidian/frozen fire dagger and created the Night King.

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

3 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

I would ask you if there is any reference or hint in the ASOIAF books that a three fingered tree hugger stabbed a man in the chest with a dragonglass/obsidian/frozen fire dagger and created the Night King.

 

The OPs post makes no mention of that heresy, as you might notice from his/her use of the term Other rather than White Walker.

5 hours ago, HighAndMightyBrightness said:

Let's just say that - instead of the Others that we know presently - George RR Martin decided to start the series with the 'Fire Others' murdering Waymar Royce. The religious fanatic 'helping' everybody else would be of the Ice Element; Melisandre would be cold to the touch. For at least 5 books, the 'Fire Others' is the ultimate, looming threat.

Assume that the story line everywhere else is completely the same. Would you like the story more? Or would you think that the 'Fire Others' are gay?

Heck, Would the story -incredibly- still be the same to you? 

I am looking forward to reading some interesting posts. 

 

Eh, same stuff. Though there would potentially be the added fear of the Others burning down castles and homes made of wood, and setting fire to all their food and supplies. 

I have to say though that it would probably freak out people who love summer that winter and ice seemed to be saving the day.

Actually, I can't see it working. Wouldn't people be less afraid of fire beings when a hard cold winter is coming? Wouldn't they be more interested in finding and stealing their power source? If you flip the seasons to go with the elemental change, then they live on what frozen vegetables and popsicles, and then lament the coming of summer when they can't "grow" their food?

[HighAndMightyBrightness]

9 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The OPs post makes no mention of that heresy, as you might notice from his/her use of the term Other rather than White Walker.

Eh, same stuff. Though there would potentially be the added fear of the Others burning down castles and homes made of wood, and setting fire to all their food and supplies. 

I have to say though that it would probably freak out people who love summer that winter and ice seemed to be saving the day.

Actually, I can't see it working. Wouldn't people be less afraid of fire beings when a hard cold winter is coming? Wouldn't they be more interested in finding and stealing their power source? If you flip the seasons to go with the elemental change, then they live on what frozen vegetables and popsicles, and then lament the coming of summer when they can't "grow" their food?

 

Yup, I definitely agree with this BTW. GRRM made the right choice creating the 'Ice Others' as we know them today.

[Ralphis Baratheon]

In this universe Roose Bolton would definitely be AA/TPtwP/most handsome man alive.

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

19 hours ago, TMIFairy said:

I would love the Others to be gay and on a crusade to murder all heterosexual folk.

Under rainbow banners they mach and "Death to breeders!" is their warcry!

Finally, a high-fantasy series the GOP could enjoy. With foreword by Mike Pence.

[Orphalesion]

14 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Actually, I can't see it working. Wouldn't people be less afraid of fire beings when a hard cold winter is coming? Wouldn't they be more interested in finding and stealing their power source? If you flip the seasons to go with the elemental change, then they live on what frozen vegetables and popsicles, and then lament the coming of summer when they can't "grow" their food?

I agree that the symbolism would be somewhat weaker, due to winter being the season of death in the Western Mindset.

But I could still see it working: the Seven Kingdoms just emerge from a ten year winter in GoT and everybody is happy and joyous about summer finally coming, except for some old folks like Old Nan who caution something along the lines of "Summer brings fear/peril/death".

Sure now they can grow their fields of grain, but those will just serve as so much fuel for the flames of the "Fire Others"

And if we are completely honest, as I can tell you from experience, an extremely long, dry and scorching hot summer can be very perilous as well. So hot that nothing can grow, that trees shrivel up and die, dropping their unripened fruit prematurely, that whole orchards and fields just expire and become useless. Famines, fires, heat stroke. Now imagine the sun never setting during that period, drying up even large rivers, turning the Reach and the Riverlands into barren desert. Insects and other pests multiply rapidly in the heat ruining what little food is left and  preying on humans, spreading sickness and pestilence.

An endless day would be just as terrible as an endless night.

Consider also that in the earliest version of the story of Persephone, the three months she pent in the underworld were not winter (a period during which most of Ancient Greece could have comfortable harvests) but Summer the time in Greece when vegetation shrivels up and all becomes dust.

[Apoplexy]

1 hour ago, Lockjaw of House Boltagon said:

Finally, a high-fantasy series the GOP could enjoy. With foreword by Mike Pence.

To the OP, I think it would be fairly the same story for me. Drought instead of winter. 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

2 hours ago, Orphalesion said:

I agree that the symbolism would be somewhat weaker, due to winter being the season of death in the Western Mindset.

But I could still see it working: the Seven Kingdoms just emerge from a ten year winter in GoT and everybody is happy and joyous about summer finally coming, except for some old folks like Old Nan who caution something along the lines of "Summer brings fear/peril/death".

Sure now they can grow their fields of grain, but those will just serve as so much fuel for the flames of the "Fire Others"

And if we are completely honest, as I can tell you from experience, an extremely long, dry and scorching hot summer can be very perilous as well. So hot that nothing can grow, that trees shrivel up and die, dropping their unripened fruit prematurely, that whole orchards and fields just expire and become useless. Famines, fires, heat stroke. Now imagine the sun never setting during that period, drying up even large rivers, turning the Reach and the Riverlands into barren desert. Insects and other pests multiply rapidly in the heat ruining what little food is left and  preying on humans, spreading sickness and pestilence.

An endless day would be just as terrible as an endless night.

Consider also that in the earliest version of the story of Persephone, the three months she pent in the underworld were not winter (a period during which most of Ancient Greece could have comfortable harvests) but Summer the time in Greece when vegetation shrivels up and all becomes dust.

Excellent points Orphalesion. 

[Clegane'sPup]

17 hours ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

The OPs post makes no mention of that heresy, as you might notice from his/her use of the term Other rather than White Walker.

You are partially correct. That is why I wrote what I wrote.

Martin made some off the cuff remark about "fire wights" and now fire wights are the new ice wights.

 

22 hours ago, HighAndMightyBrightness said:

Let's just say that - instead of the Others that we know presently - George RR Martin decided to start the series with the 'Fire Others' murdering Waymar Royce. The religious fanatic 'helping' everybody else would be of the Ice Element; Melisandre would be cold to the touch. For at least 5 books, the 'Fire Others' is the ultimate, looming threat.

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

5 minutes ago, Clegane'sPup said:

You are partially correct. That is why I wrote what I wrote.

Martin made some off the cuff remark about "fire wights" and now fire wights are the new ice wights.

 

 

Martin's not the only one. I've discussed "fire wights" like Mel in my thread on Wighting Theory. That was before I found the correct term for them in the text: revenants. Revenants are apparently separate from wights, at least according to Ser Bonifer Hasty.

[Lockjaw of House Boltagon]

As a native Floridian, I can assure you that fire wights that cause wildfires and threaten to bring an endless drought sound far scarier than the opposite. 

[Clegane'sPup]

14 minutes ago, Lady Blizzardborn said:

Martin's not the only one. I've discussed "fire wights" like Mel in my thread on Wighting Theory. That was before I found the correct term for them in the text: revenants. Revenants are apparently separate from wights, at least according to Ser Bonifer Hasty.

Is the one you speak of:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/113768-advanced-crackpottery-2-wighting-theory/

Revenant --- a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

That kinda fits LSH to the tee. Might even fit LC Snow depending upon whether he is dead or not.

A Feast for Crows - Jaime III      "I fear no shade, ser. It is written in The Seven-Pointed Star that spirits, wights, and revenants cannot harm a pious man, so long as he is armored in his faith."     "Then armor yourself in faith, by all means, but wear a suit of mail and plate as well. Every man who holds this castle seems to come to a bad end.

 

[Lady Blizzardborn]

4 hours ago, Clegane'sPup said:

Is the one you speak of:

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/113768-advanced-crackpottery-2-wighting-theory/

Revenant --- a person who has returned, especially supposedly from the dead.

That kinda fits LSH to the tee. Might even fit LC Snow depending upon whether he is dead or not.

 

A Feast for Crows - Jaime III      "I fear no shade, ser. It is written in The Seven-Pointed Star that spirits, wights, and revenants cannot harm a pious man, so long as he is armored in his faith."     "Then armor yourself in faith, by all means, but wear a suit of mail and plate as well. Every man who holds this castle seems to come to a bad end.

 

Indeed. And yes, all of the so-called fire wights would actually be revenants, including Beric, Mel, LS, and probably Jon in TWOW.

The wights themselves don't really return. They retain a bit of their memories obviously, but no free will, no personality, no power of speech. They're not really back, just reanimated. Thus they don't qualify as revenants.

[Lasicka]

Wouldn´t work as well. 

In people´s minds there is a deeply rooted association of warm/fire with life (it´s destructive properties aside) and cold/ice with death.  Though beautiful, they are something like a personified death, which is what makes them menacing. Plus their walking cold corpses - which is also a reason why icy cold Melisandre wouldn´t work, because she would be reminiscent of a corpse.