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TwiceBorn

Is Egg alive? Summerhall murder mystery.

25 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, SFDanny said:

As others have pointed out, the Targaryens don't have "fire resistance." That obviously includes Egg, so we have no doubt he died in the fire that consumed Summerhall. The more interesting part of your question is the identity of the "unknown perpetrators" of his murder - if it was a murder. Suspect number one, as a member of the maester's conspiracy, has to be the newly appointed Grand Maester himself -  young Pycelle.

This! I also don't see what the point would be of Egg being alive,  the major mystery surrounding Summerhal, is who, how and why that fire started, not whether Egg survived or not. He'd be as old as Aemon if he did, and Aemon and BR are /were the Targaryen survivors to make the connection to that period in time. We don't really need another extremely old man to spark our interest. 

The point of Summerhal is that something terrible happened, and everybody died, and it was likely a maester's conspiracy... Of the most important figure of that tragedy would've survived survived, it would severely diminish the devastating impact of that event. It would be like Robb surviving the Red Wedding. Although I'd love for Robb to have survived, the whole point of the RW is that the King in the North is dead, and the huge powershift that resulted. If Robb would somehow have survived, it'd be a less intense event. 

The simple rule of thumb is that the people who's deaths change everything, ate meant to stay death. This includes Egg, Ned, Robb, Rhaegar, Tywin, and Aerys. If any of them survived, the game would change back to an earlier point in history. 

If Egg would still be alive, the whole Summerhal murder mystery would be sort of pointless, since he's the key figure who was murdered there. 

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George_RR_Martin: Granny, thanks for asking that. It gives me a chance to clear up a common misconception. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! The birth of Dany's dragons was unique, magical, wonderous, a miracle. She is called The Unburnt because she walked into the flames and lived. But her brother sure as hell wasn't immune to that molten gold.

He was not a dragon. Egg was.

All GRRM has ever said was that not all Targaryens are immune to fire. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! = being Targ alone does not make you immune. In fact I could name at least two or three other Targs who died because they were burnt alive.
 

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The simple rule of thumb is that the people who's deaths change everything, ate meant to stay death.

Berric, Cathelyn, Jon.

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22 hours ago, TwiceBorn said:

He was not a dragon. Egg was.

All GRRM has ever said was that not all Targaryens are immune to fire. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! = being Targ alone does not make you immune. In fact I could name at least two or three other Targs who died because they were burnt alive.
 

Berric, Cathelyn, Jon.

Being a dragon or not a dragon isn't literal. The only characters who think it is are crazy ones like Aerion Brightflame and possibly Aerys II.  When Dany says that Viserys wasn't a dragon because fire cannot kill a dragon you have to remember that her education was done entirely by Viserys, who left Westeros at the age of 9 at the oldest, and who according to Barristan was showing tendencies toward insanity even in his childhood.

GRRM himself said that Dany's surviving the pyre was a miraculous one-off event. The definition of a one-off event is that it has never occurred before and will not occur again. Targaryens are not fireproof, as GRRM has made abundantly clear.

You yourself compared Egg to Dany in terms of heat tolerance, but heat tolerance is not the same as being unable to burn, as evidenced by what GRRM has said about Dany's pyre miracle.

The point of Beric and Catelyn's deaths are to set up why Jon comes back as himself after skinchanging into Ghost. Per one of his editors, GRRM does things in threes. The first one is subtle: Beric has been brought back repeatedly and is losing parts of himself as evidenced by his inability to recall what his betrothed looks like. The second is less subtle: Thoros won't bring the three-days-dead Catelyn back because she will not be herself, and she indeed comes back not as Catelyn but as the vengeful Lady Stoneheart who cares more about what she think is justice than she does about finding the truth. The third will be Jon coming back unchanged because he is the only one of the three who is a skinchanger, and was able to shift his consciousness into Ghost while his body was dead. None of Beric's deaths "change everything" nor does Catelyn's. And since he's not going to stay dead, Jon's won't either.

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22 hours ago, TwiceBorn said:

He was not a dragon. Egg was.

All GRRM has ever said was that not all Targaryens are immune to fire. TARGARYENS ARE NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE! = being Targ alone does not make you immune. In fact I could name at least two or three other Targs who died because they were burnt alive.
 

Berric, Cathelyn, Jon.

@Lady Blizzardborn has already worded it much better than I could. In short Beric, Cat's and Jon's resurrection serve a purpose. They forward the plot, without their status/title being so important that the plot would develop backwards.

If Robb would be resurrected, the King in the North would be "alive", and the Northman could be united again, while the purpose of his death is to make the North fall apart.

It's Robb's that changes the entire game, not Cat's. That's why Cat can be resurrected, and Robb can't. 

Similar things are true for Aerys, Rhaegar and Egg. Even for Robert Baratheon, and Renly. Their deaths enabled new power dynamics, and open up the opportunity for other family members (like Jon, Sansa or Dany) to be willing to consider taking over their role as ruler. 

If Egg was alive, it would mess up Dany's plot, because his claim comes before her's and fAegon's. Egg would also have way too much information, and besides that, why would he not just come back after Summerhal, and say: "hey, yo I'm alive, give me my crown." a king has more influence and power than a spider. 

Now if we allow some leniency here, and say: some characters do come back (like fAegon's, although part of the point of his return is, the doubts about him being the real deal),  they can only come back after many years, when the new power changes are fully established, because if they come back earlier it would diminish the impact of their deaths. So say Egg or Rhaegar could possibly come back... Both would be problematic for the plot. Egg would simply be too old, and Rhaegar would entirely mess up Dany's plot. She might fight against fAegon's, believing he's fake, but she wouldn't fight Rhaegar. Viserys might have, but not Dany.

The point of Rhaegar's and Egg's deaths is also that their knowledge died with them. I don't think the books would benefit from characters who have all the important information. 

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What came first the chicken or the Egg? The maesters heard the prophecy about the ptwp coming from their line so they tried to end the line to prevent the ptwp and therefore prevent the long night. By their logic; if the Horn of Valere is never found then Tarmon Gaidon cannot happen.

If not for Dunk...

 

Isn't Jon constantly flexing his hand to keep it from stiffening up due to scar tissue from burning?

 

Sorry for the tangent, I just don't see a purpose to egg being around anymore so I'm willing to get a bit fantastical.

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