[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Rockroi]

I think I would have liked the episode better had Dondarion said “The reason e are all here is because of the Red God’s desire for convenient plot devices!”  In fact, the show should just change its name to “Game of Plot Devices.”  It would make a lot more sense.  

Anyway…
What I liked:

Jaime of the Kingsguard:  Jaime Lannister was the most raw and honest character this week; he shed his pretentious skin and relied on obvious honesty.  The dragons make it impossible for Cersei to win or for Dany to lose.  He expresses his frustration with what is going on with Cersei and what he is saying is 100% true.  Also, he has every right to be mad at Tyrion for killing their father and he expressed that too.  I think Nikolai is killing it as Jaime and the weight of Jaime’s struggle is weighing on him.  It shows.  I think that of all the characters, Jaime has suffered the most since Dany’s landing.  

Tyrion v. Dany: The Struggle is Real.  What I mean by this is the show has done (and I cannot believe I am saying this) a fantastic job of keeping Dany’s sanity up in the air.  She is wise, yet inconsistent; she is understanding, yet supremely arrogant; she listens… then she doesn’t to her wise counselors; and she is really making it hard on those around her o trust or mistrust her.  Also, she is burning people alive.  With good reason?  Ah… m-maybe?  

So enter Tyrion Lannister who is now suffering from the same trials that other King’s Hands have had in the past when serving Targaryen monarchs- he has to balance what is best with what the queen may do.  He also- justifiably – must either explain away her behavior or be left with the uncomfortable realization that she’s, you know, nuts.  Tyrion is desperately uncertain on what he is doing, but the show has hammered out Tyrion’s humanity so well that we feel and see his struggle- we relate to him.  And because Tyrion is smart, he can give good advice.  This is compelling and important part of the story.  And dare I say it, it’s being done well.  

Davos, Bronn, Mormont: Second-Level Characters of the Show UNITE!: When the show does not take itself too seriously, it pays off HUGE.  Davos is a clear example of this; his relationship now with Gendry, his reluctance to do certain things, his honesty.  Bronn, meanwhile is a subtle mix of decency and viciousness; a man out for his own best interests and protecting those who he serves.  And then there is Prince Charming, Mormont who constantly makes me think that he may be James Bond.  Great characters, great actors.  Davos, Bronn and Mormont are what GoT used to be all about.  

What I am on the Fence About:

Samwell Tarley, Breaker of Spoliers: I get that Sam is a bit preoccupied now, but there was an annulment between Rahegar and his Wife so he could marry Lyanna Stark…and we find out about it in the same way we would a telegram about the kids making the tee-ball team.  I mean this was a moment that should have SOME context.  Instead, nothing.  Also, nobody before read this ancient script... from like 17 years ago?  I mean, nobody else was interested in the final days of a destroyed monarchy and may have stumbled upon the last acts of a gloriously loved Crown Prince?  No?

Well, at least we know Rhaegar wasn't a filthy rapist.  Right?  

What I Didn’t Like

The Nearly Satisfactory Seven: Okay so you wanted to get some of the cool kids together so you could make a semi-decent end-of-season adventure beyond the wall.  O…o-kay?  I guess.  But … HOLY SHIT WHY?!?!?!  I mean, it seems cool, but … WHY?  For starters, you RAM ROD DOWN OUR THROATS the most egregious examples of plot devices ever in a show.  Fifteen minutes ago, Gendry is a blacksmith in KL- NOW He’s …. beyond the Wall?  What?  And he’s going with the Hound?  And the Brotherhood Without Banners?  Why are they all doing this?  Why did they all agree?  We are all cool with this… why?  It seems so disparate; so crazy; and out of whack.  Whya re they all going to agree to do… wait what are they doing again?  

Okay, so, in the STUPIDEST THING I HAVE EVER HEARD, Jon, Gendry, Bedric, that Red Priest Who I Don’t Give a Shit About, the Hound, Mormont and Tormur, are going beyond the Wall to (sweet merciful Mother of Christ) get a right/White Walker/dead thing to… bring back to Cersei to convince her that they are real?  WHY????!?!?!?  Cersei is done!  She has no army; no political houses supporting her; no supplies.  She has money and a Navy.  Both burn with Dragon Fire.  SERIOSULY!  Why are we trying to win over Cersei Lannister?  She cannot do anything?  There is nobody in Highgarden; nobody in Dorne, Nobody in Casterly Rock, Nobody in the Riverlands, Nobody at Storm’s End.  LITERALLY, 5 opf the Seven Kingdoms are empty!  She has no army to field and no political favors to call in; no households to win over.  Meanwhile, Jon has the Errie, the North and the Free Folk; Dany has Three Dragons and, apparently, the greatest army ever assembled ever in the Dothrakai (because … reasons???).  

WHY.ARE.YOU.DOING.THIS?  Why not just stay home and starve her out?  Or, why not defeat the Army in the North with the Dragon Glass, the Wall and … wait for it … three dragons?  This makes sense… none of this makes any sense… 
And again, the fact that all these characters JUST HAPPENED to get here, now, at this point to go over the Wall is … so…so…silly.  So forced.  Much like this season suddenly, can we just get this over with?  

Grand Master Arya Stark of the Jedi Order: So, Arya is a Jedi now.  She is a better sword fighter than Brienne; a better schemer than Littlefinger and a better player in the Game of Thrones then her sister, a woman who trained under the truest masters for like 5 years.  But no… no, now Arya knows it all.  Again, her training seems vague on specifics- sure I can understand how she’s a slightly better fighter as she had to do some of it blind, and yeah, I GUESS she can read people because taking people’s faces requires some understanding of them (ie: magic).  But she’s insufferable at this point.  She is talking down to Sansa because Sansa is … holding the North together?  Because she is keeping her shaky alliance of Errie and Winterfell in-tact?  Because she is staying in her parent’s old room?  Could she not like the other room so much because that’s where the rapes happened?  I don’t even know anymore.  

Arya is grating on me with every episode.  She is unstoppable, always right and good at everything.  Why is she in Sansa’s grill?  You think that leading Northern rebellion is easy?  Here, Nobody- YOU TRY IT! Let’s see how you do with LF whispering at you, the Eerie needling you and the North yelling at you!  No… really- show me your wiles at this game.  The writes, knowing them, would let her.  

Prediction: Arya knows LF planted the note for her to find and will, masterfully, turn the tables on him. Because that’s what we want. Apparently.  

Everything At the Citadel: Why Do You Suck?  For starters, they are just annoying.  But really, it’s because they don’t make a lick of sense. Why NOT tell Sam his Father is dead?  But worse, why is the Citadel being so purposely obtuse?  Sam is talking sense- he cured greyscale; he was correct about the Dragonglass, and he has proof of what he saw beyond the wall.  So what does Broadbent do?  Why he floats a TOTALLY UNSUBSTANTIATED CONSPIRACY THEORY!  Why?  FUCK IF WE KNOW??  

I hate this scene for a bunch of reasons, and one major one is that next week would could all just discover that it was all, somehow, a clever ruse by Broadbent to keep this all under wraps… yadda… yadda… yadda.  

But the major reason?  It makes smart, learned people look like fucking nitwit assholes.  It takes the ONLY bookish intelligent people on the face of Westeroes and makes them look as dumb as ignorant peasants.  Why do this to intelligent people?  The Citadel are the stand-ins for the scientists of Westeroes; and a major component of scientists is intellectual curiosity.  Aren’t ANY of these assholes curious about the Wall?  The Dragons?  The issues that they, through intellect, could resolve or at the very least clarify for the leaders willing to listen?  Why is the Citadel as backwards as if they were as religion?  The answer: to advance the plot through stupidity instead of intelligent story-telling.  

Overall, a disappointing episode that was filled with plot holes and contrived developments.  Ho-hum.  
 

[darmody]

3 minutes ago, GeekyEnthusiast said:

I don't know if I would go as far as to say that there is "no reason." The whole... "I don't want to be Queen of the ashes" logic is probably pretty solid. I do understand your point, but I think there is some wiggle room there. 

She wants to be queen of the 7 Kingdoms, not queen of the Red Keep. She wouldn't even need to burn all of King's Landing, just the Keep. Her dragons have proven capable of pinpoint accuracy with their flames. 

[GeekyEnthusiast]

7 minutes ago, darmody said:

She wants to be queen of the 7 Kingdoms, not queen of the Red Keep. She wouldn't even need to burn all of King's Landing, just the Keep. Her dragons have proven capable of pinpoint accuracy with their flames. 

Fair point but I think Jon Snow's statement about her being "more of the same" by burning castles still may be in her head? Maybe? No one knows for sure here lol

[darmody]

I'm upset with how they're trying to pass the Dothraki off as super-soldiers based on not much evidence. All because, I don't know. The show disappeared them for several seasons and forgot to build them up into something fierce. So last year they chucked them into the Mereen battle no one cared about (especially not the show, which shoved it into the Battle of the Bastards episode with no build-up), and this year we get an admittedly awesome sequence of hoofbeats in the distance and a cool action sequence. But then the dialogue.

First a Dothraki bodyguard tells Tyrion White Men Can't Jump, I mean Fight. Then Larry tells Carol they're the bestest warriors he's ever seen because why? They surprised a less than full strength army tired from conquering one of the biggest kingdoms on a forced march back to the capital with a dragon. A DRAGON! 

Not to say the Dothraki couldn't have won on their own. The Lannister/Tarly army was unprepared and used the wrong tactics. But come on. The second Drogon cut through the enemy's line with fire, the battle was basically over. The Dothraki, Planetos' premier light cavalry, should've encircled them and rounded up stragglers immediately.

What happens instead? The battle drags on, they clash randomly and wildly with Lannister soldiers who by rights should be fleeing by then. They don't take out Bronn's scorpion. They don't protect their queen when she lands in the middle of the battle. They don't capture the enemy commander, who everyone and their mother sees go in the water. They don't even use their mounted archers correctly. 

Why am I supposed to be so dang impressed? The only real reason is that there's a lot of them. Larry should've told Carol, "We must surrender; there's just too many," instead of being a Dothraki fanboy. 

[Sir Loin Steak]

14 minutes ago, GeekyEnthusiast said:

Fair point but I think Jon Snow's statement about her being "more of the same" by burning castles still may be in her head? Maybe? No one knows for sure here lol

The people of King's Landing are a level of fickle not usually seen outside Springfield.

Remember when they didn't like the Lannisters, but adored Margaery and the Tyrells?

Remember when they were overtaken with religious fervor?

Remember the walk of shame?

Cersei has no real claim to the throne, is known to be incestuous and is open about it, blew up the equivalent of the Vatican along with their beloved Margaery and the High Septon. And yet the people are cheering Euron in the streets and seem to have zero problem with any of this.

And if it's a choice between a surgical strike on the Red Keep or months of being starved and worse in a siege, which one are the smallfolk going to get over quicker?

edit forgot this one: I doubt walking around guarded by a giant, presumably very smelly, zombie does much for her public image either. Tommen's suicide would probably be rumoured to be murder on her part too, going by what we've seen before.

30 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

It'll be a priced possession over the mantel piece until my ungrateful fat child brings his foreign girlfriend home and steals it because I tell him to see a dietician. 

[Grizzly Mormont]

1 hour ago, Greywater-Watch said:

Sorry to nickpit again. The scene with Samwell Tarly leaving the Citadel: How the heck was he choosing which book or scroll to take and wich not? Seems to me like a hazard pick with a chance to have picked important books or scrolls close to that of of winning the Lotto.

Is that the same Lotto who predicted the drowned god would defeat aegon?

[wiredup]

The show is stupid. I'm a book homer. I enjoy watching the show while I'm watching the show. just wanted to type that out loud. whew.

[The Sunland Lord]

Bronn and Jaime escaping in some impossible fashion there. 

[Hound's She-Wolf 2]

3 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Bronn and Jaime escaping in some impossible fashion there. 

Tyrion had to see them go into the water, how did he not see them come out. Or send someone in after his brother.

 

[The Sunland Lord]

32 minutes ago, Hound's She-Wolf 2 said:

Tyrion had to see them go into the water, how did he not see them come out. Or send someone in after his brother.

 

Many questions related to that one scene I guess. 

[Snormund]

8 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

Many questions related to that one scene I guess. 

Probably best to just not think too much about that scene lol

[The Sunland Lord]

1 minute ago, Snormund said:

Probably best to just not think too much about that scene lol

 Yeah even eradicate it from memory might help for one's well being.

[Visenya Stark]

The Stark sister drama annoyed me. Arya is a favourite of mine in the books, but I really hate what D&D have done to Arya's character in the show. She seems almost gleeful about the idea of creating animosity in her family. All she cares about is killing & death, and she doesn't seem affected by it all. It's not "badass" as the show fans like to say. It's tragic. Littlefinger is trying to play the Stark sisters against each other, and Arya is falling for it. She can sneak around the Twins without getting caught, but she's suddenly being sloppy while sneaking around Winterfell?? The show writers really lack consistency in their writing.

Also, Sansa is the rightful heir to the North, not Jon. With the R+L=J reveal about Jon being legitimate, suddenly fans seem to care about Jon being a legitimate heir & having a claim to the Iron Throne, but no one cared that Jon usurped Sansa's claim to the north, despite being a "bastard". Book!Jon would be horrified that his show counterpart stole his sibling's claim. 

Quote

Jon said, "Winterfell belongs to my sister Sansa." - ADWD, 2011

 

It's almost laughable how Gilly discovers R+L marriage yet it's brushed under the rug with Sam having a temper tantrum. 

Rhaegar annulling his marriage to Elia and marrying Lyanna doesn't make any sense whatsoever. His marriage to Elia was consummated and they had two kids together. He can't just set aside his marriage; no High Septon would agree to an annulment. I'd have preferred it if the show instead decided to have Rhaegar follow the old Targaryen tradition of polygamy. At least there's precedent for it and it makes much more sense in universe. 

[Balerion the one eared cat]

Haven't posted in a couple of years but I just had to get my rant and rave on. I know a lot has been posted already, but I still need to get it off my chest, so here goes!

Nitpicky things:

• Jaime/Bronn can hold their breaths and swim along the bottom of a seemingly bottomless lake for... how long? Surely Dany/Drogon would have seen them resurface SOMEWHERE and fire another blast/bite off their heads or something?!
• "I'm going to break the wheel... so swear fealty to me or I hope you've got a good bottle of BBQ sauce to go with those ribs of yours"
  • Why the hell are the Tarlys so loyal to the Lannisters? 
  • Also, did Drogon's fire literally turn their metal parts of their armour/weapons to ash? 
  • Can't help but be reminded of Skyrim with these dragon effects, Drogon just looks EXACTLY like Alduin
• Cersei pregnant? Surely Jaime has been gone for a few weeks at the VERY least - riding to the Reach, conquering a castle and making it back to KL is going to take months, surely? So she's either lying (and Jaime is an idiot for believing she's pregnant/it's his baby) or she would be showing SOME signs of being pregnant by now.
  • I still refuse to believe the smallfolk/remaining lords have no issue with her fucking her brother (although they wouldn't have crowned her in the first episode, so)
• Was expecting the Buckbeak's Flight music to start during that Harry Potter and his Hippogriff  Jon/Drogon scene. I'm sure it could have made sense, and been meaningful, if there was any back story - like, maybe Jon has been watching/bonding with Rhaegal and Viserion whilst Dany's been off on her murdering spree? - but nope
• What does Arya know about ruling a castle/kingdom? Just don't buy all this drama between her and Sansa, just kill LF and move on for Christ's sake
• Even show!Sam is not stupid enough to hear the phrase "Prince Rhaegar" and dismiss it, is tWotFK/RR not half the reason you came to Oldtown?!
• Is Sam allowed to just leave the Citadel? I thought he promised Jon that he'd train to be a maester before returning to the Watch... oh well, I hope he happened to steal the right three scrolls - maybe that one Rhaegar read all those years ago?
• WHERE THE FUCK IS GHOST
• Davos "I'm no fighter" correct me if I'm wrong, but is Davos not a knight? Do you not have to prove that you are somewhat of a decent fighter before earning that title? Or is literally just riding at a tourney and saying some vows enough?
• Oh good more Skyrim, we've officially reached new realms of fast travel now. At least Skyrim has the decency to advance time in the place you arrive
• Are the WW just conveniently chilling at the base of the Wall until plot demands they do something? 

Bigger things that annoyed me:

• I absolutely REFUSE TO BELIEVE that either Cersei or Dany would put their war on hold just to humour a NW deserter who claims that ice zombies are coming to destroy everyone, with very questionable evidence. Cersei already has a zombie by her side, she's not gonna care about a slightly chillier one. And Dany could win this in two weeks now people have seen the dragons, what's she messing around for? Oh right, because stalling for the rest of the plot
• I'm confused why it's a good idea to bring Gendry to Dany, especially when he's waving around a warhammer, is the spitting image of young Robert, and openly saying that he's Robert's last remaining heir. Surely Dany would have a problem with the Usurper's son (who might be the only other person in Westeros with a legitimate claim to the throne)? I mean, she's shown in this episode she's not exactly in a forgiving mood...
• What's the point? Dany has taken the Reach, it appears, but what's the point? The Tyrells and Tarlys were the only families ever mentioned, so are we now to believe that it's entirely populated by smallfolk now, with no noble houses? Same with Dorne, the Stormlands, the Riverlands... they've killed off everyone that anyone gave a damn about, so who cares who's taken where and who controls what? There's just nothing left... so much for all these kingdoms of people everyone claims to love/serve/doesn't want to be barbequed or frozen, there's about three minimally populated kingdoms left, at best.

This turned out way longer than I wanted it to... I just hate this show now because it's taken all the emotion of out everything. I wanted to feel something when Tyrion and Jaime meet again, when Jorah is reunited with Dany, when it's revealed that Jon might not be a bastard after all... but because of the complete lack of logic in every aspect of this show, I just don't care. It feels like a series of engineered scenes that are necessary to happen, in no logical order, to kind-of-sort-of advance the plot or to kill time until a secondary character dies a meaningless death until we eventually stumble across the finish line and find out whatever GRRM told the showrunners would happen in the final showdown. I'm just... indifferent now, and that's a word I hate, especially when used to describe how I feel towards something I used to love so passionately.

[King Louis II (KLII)]

I wish we could write a petition or something just to tell D&D how frustrated we all are with the sloppiness and lack of respect for the viewer's intelligence that the show turned to be... 

[Japper007]

That warhammer has to be the dumbest weapon on the show yet, even going beyond the Dorthraki Araks when it comes to overdesigned stupid "Fantasy" weapons. Even if it didn't look like a cheap toy from the local LARP shop, which it does and, given this seasons recycled-Star-Trek costumes-and-Ikea-rugs production value, probably is exactly where it came from too.

If that head were solid steel/iron it would make the weapon so heavy that the centrifugal force'd rip Gendry's arms right out of their sockets even if he had the strenght to wield it, and that's a big if. Also that scene was a total waste of time in a season where they supposedly have to rush everything through and hack it up.

Such a shame too since the medieval realism used to be a big draw to the show, at least IMHO.

[LulaMae Barnes]

4 hours ago, darmody said:

That's the first thing that occurred to me. Has the show forgotten Carol has her own pet zombie?

It would be another matter if they were hunting for White Walkers. Which would be immeasurably more foolish to attempt, and I don't even know if they can go where it's not winter yet without melting or whatever. But at least that might impress Carol. 

If she didn't try to ally with it against everyone in the world but Larry. (Or including Larry, if she was feeling pissy that day )

You are so right! I didn't think of that straight away - but it's true: Carol knows dead things can be revived/move/whatever. Why bother bringing her another undead thing to look at. I guess she is still making fun of "grumkins and snarks" while having Zombie Gregor standing right next to her.

And hey - since Qyburn created The Zombie Mountain for Queen Carol with the Good Hair - maybe he secretly is the creator of The Others as well;o) (he would have to be a child of the forest though - but who cares ;o))

Since Carol is utterly outnumbered (having no soldiers at all right now - I guess) when Team Khalessi and Team "the North remembers" actually unite - I suggest she simply marries the "Night King" and uses his army against her foes. Somehow I suppose not even THAT would make Larry fall out of love with her. To him she will ALWAYS be perfect.

I am also quite interested in that weird hunting party up north - will they catch the wight with a net? Did they bring a cage or something along?  Did Davos invite Gendry just to be the bait? I am sooooo excited

[Corvinus85]

Does Dany's camp even know about UnGregor? Technically, I don't think he died in the show, as he did in the books. Everyone still calls him Ser Gregor. 

Sure, I would think that Dany's camp knows, but Varys has been as useless as nipples on a breastplate this season, so I don't know how much info they have about Cersei's court.

[Corvinus85]

Oh, I forgot to mention in my first rant here how much I laughed when Drogon approached Jon. His powerful dragon scream turned into a long fart. Have a listen. When even the tech department slips up, you know this show is going down the drain.

[LulaMae Barnes]

9 hours ago, legba11 said:

It's come up a couple of times, so I'll remind:  We have a clear time reference. Little Sam.

He was born early in S2.  He is basically the same age in 7.1 and 7.5.  That is really odd considering what's been going on, so much for the hand waving, "Lots of time passed" explanations of teleporting armies and navies.  Still, he is something between 1 and 2 from what we've seen.  Feel free to correct me on this, people with more baby experience.  He is pre-verbal or barely verbal, but fairly mobile.

Since showfans believe that with every season another year passes in the showverse (and since the writers let you believe that easily with all that travelling and I think even mentioning "the war of the 5 kingdom already lasts for 7years)  - it should be the year 304 now  -  so Little Sam should be about 5 by now ;o)