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[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion


Lady Fevre Dream

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8 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Yeah, he does have history when it comes to not meeting his on deadlines, which I am sure the Ds knew of. But I am curious as to why there seems to have been a bit of a breakdown between the two parties. He hasn't written an episode since season four. Presumably he wanted to take a backseat to get on with the writing of Winds. I wonder how much the two parties are working together on the rest of the TV series.

Is he feeding them a lot of his knowledge about what is happening and they're ignoring it, or is he giving them a brief outline and leaving them to their own devices? It seems most like to be the latter. GRRM had less reason to write screenplays for the an episode in each of the first four seasons, as they already had his books to work off. Since season five, when they ran out and really started to drift from the books, if he and the Ds were truly working together, would it not have made more sense for him to be writing an episode, maybe more, a season?

I suppose we will never know and can only speculate, but I believe that would have massively improved the story.

I agree. And I do know GRRM said it was taking him at least a month to write one episode, and he stopped writing after season 4 to concentrate on Winds. I won't speculate any more than that because I have gotten many posts deleted by the mods for speculating on Winds' status, or lack thereof. And it is deviating from the thread's topic.

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17 minutes ago, That Westeros Dude said:

When Margaery married Tommen, Cersei was no longer queen of anything. When Margaery died she was the rightful queen of Westeros. Cersei blew her up. Therefore "you follow a queen who killed your rightful queen" is correct. 

Visenya remained a queen after Aenys and Maegor became kings with their own wifes, Alicent remained a queen when she crowned her married son king. There's no precedent for unmaking queens by marrying their kids.

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So, Jon is eager to head to Eastwatch, yet waits, what 3 weeks for Davos and Tyrion to come back? What happened to the Stark men who was with him when he got to Dragon Stone?

So... Jamie and Bronn escape by snorkeling half a mile with Armor... submerged... How.
Never mind Tyrion knowing he lived yet never tried to track him down. never mind, if the lake was that deep, why didn't more of the Lannister men escape that way? 

why didn't Cersei kill Tyrion? She knew he was in the city but allowed him to come and go without molestation??? She didn't know about Olenna's confession.
Why would Tyrion even attempt some mess like that!? Whats the purpose of Varys if he can't get a message to somebody in Kingslanding!? A Spymaster that leaves it to the Hand of the King to risk his life to talk to Jamie.

You know, the whole Arya vs Sansa arch would or could be done well with enough time. But when it turns each episode without time to let the doubt foster in the watcher, it just looks rushed.

Catching a Weight from an army of maybe a few hundred thousand is the dumbest idea ever conceived. Even if they had 20 good men. They got 9? maybe?

The scene with Jon and the dragon was dope. Filmed pretty good. If it was written well, dialogue-wise it would have been a great scene. They spend too much time making Dany, lifeless and killing her personality. Its why her reunion with jorah seemed so much better. They had good chemistry because she's shown to have a soul in those scenes. With Jon its forced Ice Queen.

They really have made a mess of GRRM's story.

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1 minute ago, Denam_Pavel said:

Visenya remained a queen after Aenys and Maegor became kings with their own wifes, Alicent remained a queen when she crowned her married son king. There's no precedent for unmaking queens by marrying their kids.

She is queen in name like a President is President after his term. You keep the name, but you have no power. Seriously. I'm done. He was talking about Margeary. 

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16 minutes ago, Denam_Pavel said:

Visenya remained a queen after Aenys and Maegor became kings with their own wifes, Alicent remained a queen when she crowned her married son king. There's no precedent for unmaking queens by marrying their kids.

Margaery was queen, married to King Tommen when she was killed by Cersei. Because there's no more heirs, Cersei took the throne... How givin that everybody knows she killed the queen, and the high Septim and many many others!? I don't know.

Yes she was former queen and Regent, but once Tommen took the throne all she was was the Kings mother. Regents are temporary.

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3 minutes ago, That Westeros Dude said:

She is queen in name like a President is President after his term. You keep the name, but you have no power. Seriously. I'm done. He was talking about Margeary. 

Guess who also have no power, every other queen in Westeros. Outside of a Queen-Regent like Cersei was or ones that are actually heirs the throne like Rhaenyra and Dany, they are not in itself invested with power to order around Lords. A queen like Cersei or Margeary might be more powerful because of the numbers of their household guard, how much the King or his heir, the Prince of Dragonstone decides listens to them, who is paying the gold cloaks, their relationship with the Hand and so on but the Lord of Westeros serve the King, The Regent, the Protector, the Hand, their Lord-Paramount, their cardinal direction's Warden and then themselves. Queen doesn't inheritely get a place in that pecking order. And if they do, there's certainly not a law that distinquishes the newer Queen from the older Queen as more "rightful". They get to bully around their household like any proper Lady. The Lord of Hornhill doesn't have to give a ****.

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1 hour ago, Denam_Pavel said:

Cersei has been queen for years. Got the Regency taken from admittedly because of her crimes in the eyes of the Seven. But it was not then given to Margeary, who was likewise under investigation and then died. There was never a point when Margeary was lawfully a higher queen then Cersei in life. That's not a thing, there's only one Regency, one Protector of the Realm and Margeary was a queen that was never any of them unlike Cersei.

Cersei was queen regent at that time and not the queen. Margery was the queen as she was married to King Tommen. Margery was indeed higher than Cersei when she died. Also Margery had been absolved of her investigation after bringing Tommen to the fold.

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On 14 August 2017 at 4:22 AM, joaozinm said:

I just hope the book doesnt go into this "annulment" thing...

the daeneerys curisioty about "stab in the heart" is bothering me too.

I doubt it. Rhaegar talked of the three heads of the dragon. Doubt his such a douche bag to divorce Elia.  It's the shows this so that Jon is not a bastard.  The Targs do polygamy too.  So he could have married Lyannna.  Who knows.  I personally hope he is a bastard

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can we please  stop defending the show-runners?  enough of this idea that "D&D ran out of material"

i get why things had to be changed.  there was no way for the show to ever capture the magic of the source material.  but to suggest that the butchery and bastardization of the story that is "Game of Thrones" is somehow GRRM's fault is absurd.  the show-runners are making decisions.  the show-runners are failing to write cohesive plots and consistent characters.  these elements were already built for them.  they had a solid foundation to work from, but chose to deviate more and more as time went on.  now, they've been exposed as poor writers, short-sighted thinkers, and mental midgets hiding in the shadow of a great artist... yet people want to defend them by blaming GRRM.

the only reason the show was considered "good" was because those two clowns could copy the source material verbatim if they chose to.  the D&D-isms of the early seasons were always the weak links in the chain.  Exhibit A: Ros the noble northern prostitute.  and i get it.  GRRM is an artistic genius whose work could never be replicated... but the growing canyon between the quality of GRRM's writing the the quality of the show's writing is laughable at this point.  

every decision being made is only to serve a plot that i am guessing is still supposedly loyal to the GRRM outline.  yet, the dialogue is so bad.  the inconsistent character motivations are so bad.  the pathetic call-backs to the first couple seasons prove only that D&D have an HBOnow subscription and they can go watch the show when it was still good.  

if i have to read or hear one more person praise the show for having davos say, "i thought you'd still be rowing;" i'm going to lose my mind.  how better to address a gaping plot hole of their own creation than to insert a meme of that gaping plot hole directly into the episode?!?

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4 minutes ago, Houndbird said:

I doubt it. Rhaegar talked of the three heads of the dragon. Doubt his such a douche bag to divorce Elia.  It's the shows this so that Jon is not a bastard.  The Targs do polygamy too.  So he could have married Lyannna.  Who knows.  I personally hope he is a bastard

Maegor the Cruel and Aegon the Conquerer practiced polygamy 250 years ago. None of them afterwards. Even Aegon the Unworthy who wanted nothing to do with his wife and son but kept tons of mistresses and acknowledged his bastards didn't see marrying twice as an option.

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31 minutes ago, ramla said:

So, Jon is eager to head to Eastwatch, yet waits, what 3 weeks for Davos and Tyrion to come back? What happened to the Stark men who was with him when he got to Dragon Stone?

I wouldn't say 3 weeks passed for that little adventure, but yeah, he had to wait. Gave him more time to mine some of that dragonglass. And at his departure, there was a 2nd boat pushed by Stark men. The question is whether or not they went with him to Eastwach, or he sent them back to Winterfell. They should have gone with him, because he is a king, and and a king should have an escort at all times.

 

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17 minutes ago, Denam_Pavel said:

Guess who also have no power, every other queen in Westeros. Outside of a Queen-Regent like Cersei was or ones that are actually heirs the throne like Rhaenyra and Dany, they are not in itself invested with power to order around Lords. A queen like Cersei or Margeary might be more powerful because of the numbers of their household guard, how much the King or his heir, the Prince of Dragonstone decides listens to them, who is paying the gold cloaks, their relationship with the Hand and so on but the Lord of Westeros serve the King, The Regent, the Protector, the Hand, their Lord-Paramount, their cardinal direction's Warden and then themselves. Queen doesn't inheritely get a place in that pecking order. And if they do, there's certainly not a law that distinquishes the newer Queen from the older Queen as more "rightful". They get to bully around their household like any proper Lady. The Lord of Hornhill doesn't have to give a ****.

I have no idea what you are talking about, you have gone so far away from your original post it is hilarious. Tommen was king. Margeary was queen. Tyrion stating to Lord Tarly "who follow a queen that murder the rightful queen" is correct. 

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1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

I don't agree with your analogy.

D&D weren't hired by GRRM to adapt his books for TV, at least not that I know of, for I don't think that is how these things work. It is more likely they or someone from HBO approached GRRM and asked if they could adapt his work, not thinking that the only material they would ever have to adapt from was already available to them.

D&D have written their own stuff outside of GOT, but you have to be a special kind of writer to come up with something like ASOIAF. These guys are probably beyond their limits trying to write three seasons of it themselves with an outline as guidance, especially trying to produce the level of story telling that GRRM can. And I mean that as no insult to D&D. When the dust settles and GRRM finally finishes ASOIAF, it will go down as one of the greatest fantasy series of all time, something of a level that only he and a select few others could ever produce.

Finishing off a story GRRM started with as much quality as he would himself is a task that is definitely beyond the standard of writing D&D can produce. Only GRRM could come up with this story, so only he could finish it. He has left these showrunners in a position that is way out of their depth.

OK, but I'm not even suggesting D&D should have been able to finish out the story on their own at "GRRM level quality" (Though I disagree with the general consensus on his quality). I'm talking about them being able to write a television show with its own internal consistency, decent dialogue, and plot logic. They have proven that they can't do that, so they should never have been allowed to adept Martin's work.

My analogy was not that your head chef should have the same ability to create unique dishes as delicious as yours. But he should have the basic competency to be able to substitute spices or make variations and generally run a kitchen.

D&D don't.

Best example: Jamie's magic river ride was not due to lack of source material. It was due to incompetence at logic, constancy, and storytelling.

 

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14 minutes ago, Banjo said:

Cersei was queen regent at that time and not the queen. Margery was the queen as she was married to King Tommen. Margery was indeed higher than Cersei when she died. Also Margery had been absolved of her investigation after bringing Tommen to the fold.

Tyrion himself says that as Queen-Regent, even Tywin the Hand of King and most powerful man in the Kingdom serves at her pleasure officially. A Queen-Regent rules the Seven Kingdoma. The wife of a adult King does not. Had the Regency ever fallen on Margeary before she died, the people would owe her allegiance before anyone else. That never happened.

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On 8/14/2017 at 0:52 AM, darmody said:

It was better before they cut Gendry saying, "Stop! Hammer time!" as he caved in their skulls. 

I agree. They should not have cut that. :D It really wouldn't have been out of place for the show ... it's not like they haven't already thrown in quite a few out of place pop culture references.

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12 minutes ago, That Westeros Dude said:

I have no idea what you are talking about, you have gone so far away from your original post it is hilarious. Tommen was king. Margeary was queen. Tyrion stating to Lord Tarly "who follow a queen that murder the rightful queen" is correct. 

If it applied to Margeary it is technically correct (at least from the perspective of someone that doesn't believe the incest rumors, which does not include Tyrion, who know Margeary is no more rightful queen by marrying Tommen then he is). If Tyrion had said "you follow the rightful queen that murdered a queen." he would be just as technically correct. Which kind of makes it a meaningless sentence. To me the sentence implies that the latter is the queen he ought to have been following as opposed the latter. But where is that coming from? 

In show Margeary and Cersei do actually adress this point in conversation. The mother of the King is still called Queen Dowager. Now Margeary had the king's ear, has more sway with the Tyrells forces in the capital, popularity of the masses and all that good stuff but to actually be the only and only queen in the eyes of the law, Cersei would need to be dead or actively stripped of her land and titles in some way.  Just the act of marrying Tommen does not accomplish this.

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11 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I wouldn't say 3 weeks passed for that little adventure, but yeah, he had to wait. Gave him more time to mine some of that dragonglass. And at his departure, there was a 2nd boat pushed by Stark men. The question is whether or not they went with him to Eastwach, or he sent them back to Winterfell. They should have gone with him, because he is a king, and and a king should have an escort at all times.

 

Right. Jon had planned to go to Eastwatch for a while. Jon had no idea The BwB was at Eastwatch. He also didn't know Jorah was going to volunteer at first. Additionally, he didn't even know Gendry existed to volunteer to go as well. So before Jon knew all that, since the rest of the Winterfell men went back, was Jon planning to go alone? The King in the North goes on a solo mission to retrieve a wight? Might as well change his name to Jon Rambo.

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15 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

I wouldn't say 3 weeks passed for that little adventure, but yeah, he had to wait. Gave him more time to mine some of that dragonglass. And at his departure, there was a 2nd boat pushed by Stark men. The question is whether or not they went with him to Eastwach, or he sent them back to Winterfell. They should have gone with him, because he is a king, and and a king should have an escort at all times.

 

I thought it was 3 weeks because of them being in a row boat. Just the two of them. lol Probably not that long tho. Still seemed urgent. I think if they'd just establish reasons for what they do in dialogue it might make a bit of sense. Like The whole mining situation. If they were mining, they would need large ships and a port on DS. And where's the mined Dragon Glass being taken too? And with Euron teleporting all over the sea, how will it ever make it to wherever its going. lol

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Got a good laugh off of Sam leaving the citadel and grabbing random scrolls on his way out. The last one, was him literally reaching up on a shelf beyond his sight and just grabbing whatever one his hand touched. Arhcmaester Haverforwinkle's turnip quiche recipe may come in real handy....

Next. Since this happened two weeks in a row, I have to mention it. Apparently, you can tell someone has a really well crafted dagger or sword solely by the hilt.  :huh: As now, both Arya and Jon's blades have been regarded while sheathed.

Lastly, for now, I didn't realize that getting hit repeatedly with a stick enabled one to become an expert lock-pick. Those faceless men got it goin' on!!

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