[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion

[Le Cygne]

12 minutes ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

LOL  Especially considering it was Davos, who's been hanging out with King Jonny, and the only thing they've been mining is dragonglass, not gold, not silver, LOL  Davos, Dude........get your money back, you're as bad a Dany, burning the food and not getting there til the gold was gone. 

I do kid, I love Davos.  Even when they have him do stupid things. 

Yeah, they don't bookend things, like they made Davos gripe about the money, then grabbing it back could have been darkly humorous, he could have said something pithy as he scooped it back into his bag. It's a little thing, but when there are tons of little missed opportunities, it just comes off sloppy. And the characters don't seem real.

Like scads of people have said, why didn't Arya and Sansa and Bran talk about Rickon. There are things a human being does, even though they may seem small, and when they are missing, really stand out. Davos could have even hesitated and thought, well, no time to get the money. But he's complaining about it, then he forgets it.

[Capo Ferro]

10 minutes ago, StepStark said:

You're right, Casterly Rock just sits there. Winterfell too. Not like other castles which, I don't know, run around or something...

Err, no.  Not like other castles which sit in a location that had strategic value such as the two I mentioned or protect some other resource that's actually important in the war.  

What, in books or show, has established the supreme importance of maintaining an iron hold on casterly rock and its exhausted gold mines at the expense of a strong offensive thrust.

 

[Cas Stark]

1 hour ago, Lord Okra said:

D&D are following a loose outline given by GRRM.

As far as anybody here knows, GRRM is going to have some small group go north of the wall to get a wight.  I've assumed that every major event is because it relates to the outline GRRM gave D&D.

I understand people are upset that they have to come to the show in order to find out anything about the ending since GRRM has basically stopped producing books for them to enjoy but please don't blame D&D for stuff like Jon going north of the wall to get a wight as proof as if there is no chance that was in the outline given by GRRM to D&D.

I suspect that a group will go north of the wall to grab a wight in the books (if they are ever released) so blaming D&D for that happening wouldn't be fair to them.  They are loosely following the story laid down by GRRM.  It is definitely possible that D&D invented the entire scheme to capture a wight but I doubt it.

I'm absolutely sure that no one is going to go on a wight hunt to get a wight so they can get Queen Cersei to give them her army in the books, whenever they come out or if they never come out.  It's a brutally stupid plot point that is executed poorly on the show.

[Le Cygne]

Arya, Sansa, and Bran talking about Rickon was a great opportunity to show characterization for all three, too. How did they all feel about this, after all their experiences? This could have been something to show that even though they'd been through hell, they snap out of their funks when it comes to uniting in this moment of mourning. A glimmer of hope, maybe one day they can all find some peace and be normal again. It was a lost opportunity not having them do this very human thing of mourning their brother together.

[The Knight of Flours]

5 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

 Everyone is still on the GOT train

Everyone.... plus another half-million on top of last week's record ratings..

[WSmith84]

9 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I'm absolutely sure that no one is going to go on a wight hunt to get a wight so they can get Queen Cersei to give them her army in the books, whenever they come out or if they never come out.  It's a brutally stupid plot point that is executed poorly on the show.

George might have it happen that Jon decides to use a wight to prove the existence of the Others. Fortunately, he doesn't need to go on a wight hunt. Because Jon put those two dead bodies in an ice cell under guard so that he could learn from them if they did rise. Which they could have put in the show in S5 (literally have a single line where Jon commands it to be done) and it would have paid off now, showing that Jon had foresight as a leader.

[Le Cygne]

Well I doubt book Jon is dumb enough to try to convince Cersei to play nice.

[Philokles]

1 hour ago, Capo Ferro said:

Wait, why is that stupid?  Casterly Rock isn't the Twins or Moat Caillin, important because they allow north/south traffic to be cut off.  It has no special strategic position, it just sits there on its own on the coast guarding some apparently now exhausted mines.  In Martin's books it was stupid for Theon to take Winterfell which shares with casterly rock the qualities of being a not very strategically important strong castle that's home to one of the great Westeros families so why is it stupid for Jaimie to leave only a defensive force at casterly rock (it wasn't abandoned) and use the bulk of the Lannister army elsewhere to do actual offensive work? 

Not that it did Theon any good, but losing Winterfell was a major blow to Stark prestige that acted as a catalyst for Roose's betrayal. Likewise, losing Casterly Rock should be a clear sign the Lannisters are done. Strategically, it protects the third largest city in Westeros and possibly its largest port and the three roads that lead into the hinterland. Such a strong defensive position in close proximity to a large natural harbour is pretty unique.

 

1 hour ago, StepStark said:

You're right, Casterly Rock just sits there. Winterfell too. Not like other castles which, I don't know, run around or something...

Like Greywater Watch

[sweetsunray]

44 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

George might have it happen that Jon decides to use a wight to prove the existence of the Others. Fortunately, he doesn't need to go on a wight hunt. Because Jon put those two dead bodies in an ice cell under guard so that he could learn from them if they did rise. Which they could have put in the show in S5 (literally have a single line where Jon commands it to be done) and it would have paid off now, showing that Jon had foresight as a leader.

Exactly. This whole wight hunt idea is typical D&D plotzee of using elements to invent their own thing: Jon already having dead bodies in the ice cells in aDwD + Last Hero legend.

[The Fattest Leech]

58 minutes ago, WSmith84 said:

George might have it happen that Jon decides to use a wight to prove the existence of the Others. Fortunately, he doesn't need to go on a wight hunt. Because Jon put those two dead bodies in an ice cell under guard so that he could learn from them if they did rise. Which they could have put in the show in S5 (literally have a single line where Jon commands it to be done) and it would have paid off now, showing that Jon had foresight as a leader.

Very true. This show is actually not that far ahead of the published books. They are still recycling old storylines or details, just mixing them around like a salad... a gross salad made rotten crab, if Cersei knew Tyrion was in the city then why didn't she kill him, fingers up the bum, and expensive dragunzzz at the cost of story telling.

[darmody]

6 hours ago, Ser Didymus said:

it's just dumb.  there is not other way to describe it.  Why would Jon fast-travel PAST Winterfell when both the character and the TV show have a million reasons for him to at least stop in and grab some supplies. 

Stopping by Winterfell would be even dumber. Eastwatch is almost a whole continent away, but at least it and Dragonstone are both on the East Coast. Winterfell is inland and would add hundreds of miles onto the journey. 

[Stubby]

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[darmody]

6 hours ago, StepStark said:

In a logical universe, Tyrion would be the last person to ever think of reasoning with Cersei, woman who, not a bit less than Tywin, irrationally but persistently used every single opportunity (and created some on her own) to make his life miserable.

Tyrion is capable of being objective, and won't extrapolate from the fact that his sister irrationally and persistently tried to make his life miserable the certainty that she wants to make miserable the lives of everyone in Westeros. She blamed him for their mother's death, hated him for sending her daughter away, and genuinely thought he poisoned her son. Even Jaime thought Tyrion might have killed Joffrey. She has no similar grudge against the world so far as Tyrion knows. (But, oh boy, does she now.)

He knows how ruthless and irrational she can be, but she's gone considerably more crazy in his absence. Based on what she did to the Sept and the fact that all three of her children are now dead, he has a notion. But he doesn't know her mind is permanently stuck in "burn them all" (except Jaime) mode.

In truth, the show has featured two Cerseis: one before the Faith Militant storyline, one after. Or if you prefer to look at it another way: one with Tyrion and Tywin in her life, and one after. The showrunners decided to give her a tragic fall and evil comeback arc. It turned her into a crazy person. Tyrion is unfamiliar with this character. 

It's not unreasonable to think Jaime can make her see the light, if anyone. The stupid part of Tyrion's plan is deciding not to burn her out of the Red Keep--which the dragons appear capable of doing without killing too many innocent King's Landingers (drop leaflets warning them to evacuate)--or starving her out with a siege.

[Armand Gargalen]

7 hours ago, El Guapo said:

Has anyone mentioned the fact that unlike all the commanders on Westeros, Tormund actually had scouts that picked up Beric, Thoros and the Hound prior to them making it to Eastwatch.

Oh, yes, good catch. I also thought the same: Are wildings the only ones who still know how to scout?

[King Louis II (KLII)]

4 hours ago, StepStark said:

There is a difference indeed: Martin. He's the difference, not D&D. They were always this bad, but earlier they could cover their incompetence with Martin's material, but now they can't any more.

granted....

[fairwarging]

On 8/14/2017 at 1:37 PM, SerMixalot said:

BTW, wouldn't it be better if Sansa and Arya worked together against LF?  Wouldn't that give some much needed positive female relationship/Stark love to the show?  It could easily be done.  Have Arya and Sansa discuss LF being there and the potential trouble it could cause.  Sansa can make the case that the Vale troops are in LF's pockets. Show Royce saying that LF is Sweet Robin's representative and he is bound to follow LF.  Have the northern lords echo some of LF's discontent in meetings with Sansa.  Have Arya defend Sansa. Have Sansa use her skills as a leader/diplomat combined with Arya's intelligence gathering and ruthlessness to out LF to whatever fate LF has in store.

This made me angry too. There are so many "Best Bro" relationships, but the best potential female relationship is crushed. The only other positive female relationship is Dany and Missandei but they're not equals, hell, they're not sisters!  It's far more interesting having these two once rival sisters come together after years of difficulty and longing, see the good in each other, and work together. Their understanding of each other after all these years is one of the things I'm most looking forward to in the books. Arya can be a feral girl if they want to go that angle- after everything she's been through, Sansa will understand. Their bickering over Jon almost seems like a romantic spat, like Arya is jealous Sansa's gotten all this attention. As for Brienne, Arya just wants to best her, and she spends more time abusing Pod than talking with Sansa

Yes, we have two queens, but IMO they're both shitty queens and awful, entitled people, and when they speak with other women besides Missandei it's perfunctory. 

This makes me want to list all the bromances: 

Jon and his best buds Sam, Tormund, Davos, Ed, with Tyrion joining the fan club (based on screentime, all the extras love him)

Tyrion and his best bud Varys. 

Jaime and his best bud Bronn

Beric and Thoros, with Hound as a frenemy

Jorah and Sam, short but sweet 

And also platonic or One Sided:

Littlefinger and Sansa (creepy and annoying)

Sansa and Jon (Intrigue! Undermining! Boring!)

Sansa and Bran (Who the fuck is this person?)

Brienne and Pod (abusive)

Yara and Theon (stop sexing it up in front of your brother, creep! Is she mocking him?)

Meera and Bran (Dragged you across the frozen north for nothing, Branbot!)

Dany and Jorah (Quit wasting your life and take up a hobby, Jorah!)

Dany and her advisors (I actually like Grey Worm and find him touching, but the others are useless)

Cersei and Qyburn (Unfortunately the best and healthiest platonic relationship on the show! Qyburn is always there for her and she shows him great respect and honor. Best Friends Forever!) 

 

 

 

 

 

[darmody]

7 hours ago, Illiterati said:

The whole uneducated inbred thing.

Not only that, but her only contact prior to meeting Sam and the other Crows was with her father and her sisters/mother/aunts/cousins. No doubt she had to watch her tongue around daddy. Judging by how she talked to that girl in Moletown, the women of Craster's Keep were cutthroat. 

She's not used to conversing like a normal Westerosi. 

[darmody]

7 hours ago, Illiterati said:

Jon isn't garrisoning Eastwatch.  He's on a short term mission that launched from Eastwatch.  He isn't doing anything that would give one the idea that he is Night's Watch.

Jon, as King of the North, sent Wildlings under the command of Redbeard to defend Eastwatch (by the sea). It's not just one mission. Wildlings were there on Jon's orders holding the castle before Tyrion thought up this ridiculous mission. 

Eastwatch was empty, I think, but last time I checked Ed Whatsit was Lord Commander of the Night's Watch and in charge of who gets to go to Eastwatch (by the sea). 

[fairwarging]

On 8/14/2017 at 2:10 PM, GeekyEnthusiast said:

Fair point but I think Jon Snow's statement about her being "more of the same" by burning castles still may be in her head? Maybe? No one knows for sure here lol

If she's willing to mow down entire fields of soldiers ( who probably don't even want to be there) without any compunction, a keep with less people shouldn't be a big deal. 

[darmody]

6 hours ago, Rhymes with Sneak said:

I agree that the scene is painful to watch, but I will say your change does not really fix it.  Sam has no reason at the moment to think it is urgent for Jon to know what Gilly is telling him.  That probably should have prompted some interest from any reasonably intelligent resident of Westeros, but Sam does not have any reason to connect Jon to Lyanna beyond it being interesting gossip about his long dead aunt.  

Gilly didn't even mention Lyanna. She just said Prince Rhaegar annulled his marriage and wed someone else in secret.

Sam should know who Rhaegar is and find his annulment curious, but he cut Gilly off before there was any connection to Jon. 

Give the writers a modicum of credit. They didn't have Sam hear and ignore intell about a Stark marrying the heir to the Iron Throne around the time of his Stark bastard buddy's birth.