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[Spoilers] Rant and Rave Without Repercussion


Lady Fevre Dream

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 On a more serious note and to celebrate that I have my first follower :)

 

What the hell does Dany "Break the Wheel" speech mean?

It made sense in Mereen, where she ended slavery. I guess no one told her there is no slavery in Westeros.

What is certain is that she has no desire to end absolute monarchy or feudalism. 

It all would make more sense if they had some scenes where Dany is meeting her advisers to discuss how the lives of the Westerosi smallfolk could be improved through legislation, and we saw that legislation being implemented in Dragonstone. Well, that might be possible if Dragonstone had some population to start with...

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55 minutes ago, Ser Didymus said:

i've been writing and deleting and re-writing and deleting posts all morning.  my thoughts are all over the map.  i can't keep one problem in my head long enough to write thoroughly and thoughtfully about it before the next problem draws my attention elsewhere.  i know where i want to get with these comments, but after writing 500+ words, i end up deleting the whole thing because of how defeated i feel.  

this show is garbage.  i don't know what else to say.  

my only hope now is that GRRM takes his name off the show.  this is not his story anymore, if it ever was.  D&D have proven themselves completely inept.  Without GRRM's work to hide behind, D&D's gross incompetency and negligence is on full display this season.  if i knew the show would get THIS bad, i would have preferred that it was cancelled by HBO after the Red Wedding.

I agree.  There are so many things wrong with the show, specifically the last episode (which may have been the worst GoT episode I have ever seen), that I don't even know how to start commenting.

I keep trying to tell myself "The worse the show gets in terms of plot holes and bad characterization, the greater the difference will be between the show and books".  So I am hoping that when the Winds of Winter will come out, it will be almost an entirely different story.

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16 hours ago, fairwarging said:

This made me angry too. There are so many "Best Bro" relationships, but the best potential female relationship is crushed. The only other positive female relationship is Dany and Missandei but they're not equals, hell, they're not sisters!  It's far more interesting having these two once rival sisters come together after years of difficulty and longing, see the good in each other, and work together. Their understanding of each other after all these years is one of the things I'm most looking forward to in the books. Arya can be a feral girl if they want to go that angle- after everything she's been through, Sansa will understand. Their bickering over Jon almost seems like a romantic spat, like Arya is jealous Sansa's gotten all this attention. As for Brienne, Arya just wants to best her, and she spends more time abusing Pod than talking with Sansa

Yes, we have two queens, but IMO they're both shitty queens and awful, entitled people, and when they speak with other women besides Missandei it's perfunctory. 

 

 

 

 

 

But... but... women on top... Bad Pussy... Sansa needing Theon to help her cross cold water while running for her life (and 20 other worse things)...  Women on top!  

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4 hours ago, Armand Gargalen said:

 On a more serious note and to celebrate that I have my first follower :)

 

What the hell does Dany "Break the Wheel" speech mean?

It made sense in Mereen, where she ended slavery. I guess no one told her there is no slavery in Westeros.

What is certain is that she has no desire to end absolute monarchy or feudalism. 

It all would make more sense if they had some scenes where Dany is meeting her advisers to discuss how the lives of the Westerosi smallfolk could be improved through legislation, and we saw that legislation being implemented in Dragonstone. Well, that might be possible if Dragonstone had some population to start with...

The Wheel metaphor was actually born in a discussion regarding the great houses of Westeros and how they are spokes that uphold the entire societal wheel.  So in a very real sense, Breaking the wheel (which she said she will do during this initial conversation) is very much a Westeros thing and not an Essos thing.

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23 minutes ago, Illiterati said:

The Wheel metaphor was actually born in a discussion regarding the great houses of Westeros and how they are spokes that uphold the entire societal wheel.  So in a very real sense, Breaking the wheel (which she said she will do during this initial conversation) is very much a Westeros thing and not an Essos thing.

Copy and paste from a different thread:

"So will she strip Jon of his KiTN title? Or will she ask the people of the Nortth (not just the bunch of nobles who were at WF at that moment) for a referendum on his rule? What about Olena, Yara, and the Sand Snakes? Is Tyrion giving up on his claim to Casterly Rock and looking for a job? 

That is propaganda in the best of cases, nonsense in the worst ones."

 

I also wanted to add that her whole claim is based on the fact that she is a Targaryen, the House who was on top of the wheel for 300 hundred years. And dragons...

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That's exactly what I was thinking.  "Don't touch him, ew gross go wash your hands."

On the bright side this episode provided us with the much needed internal consistency that has been so lacking this season.  Last week Dany says "enough with the clever plans" so this week they come up with the dumbest plan of all time.  Now that's world building.

 

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I enjoyed the episode overall, I can get over the character teleports as the show producers really need to get things moving forward in the time they have left. There is still SO much to cover. I absolutely hate Arya's character at this point though. What a bloody waste of screen time. A completely contrived, pointless character with ridiculous superpowers, that is now reduced to manufacturing conflict in the very place and with the very people that she (supposedly) trained so hard to protect. At this point I hope that LF has her whacked in the next episode.

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14 hours ago, Ran said:

[Mod Note]

In the past,  I provided a text for the head of each new Rant & Rave thread to make the rules of this particular topic clear. It seems to have gotten lost along the way, so I provide it here. Feel free to quote it when starting a new thread.

[/Mod]

The topic of the thread is discussing things you dislike about the show. It is not a place to throw insults at one another or to act as if the normal rules of the forum do not apply.

Discussion of why people disliked something is permitted, but remember the topic at hand: this is not a debate thread, it's a discussion thread specifically about episode details or events that posters disliked. Posts that ignore this will be considered off-topic.

Thank you, Ran.  If I am the one that puts up the thread next week, I will include your reminder.  Thanks again. 

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If Arya is unreasonably angry with Sansa next episode I'm going to be pissed. Anyone with half a brain cell could work out that she was coerced into writing it in an attempt to save her father. Arya can be mad, but if she doesn't put this behind her she's a moron.

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On 8/15/2017 at 3:25 PM, StepStark said:

Speaking of quality, seasons 1-4 weren't good, and seasons 5 and on are even worse. On the other hand, whether the show is enjoyable and entertaining or not is up to personal taste.

This is where I'm at. I've never been a fan of the show. I watch because of my fascination with the source material. At one point in my life, I eat, slept, breathed the novels. I want to like the show, but it is terrible on every level. Of course, it's getting progressively worse. At this point, it's like bad fan fiction, and part of me hopes Martin never finishes just in case some of the dumb show revelations turn out to be true. Such as Stannis losing just so Jon can wage a second war and Rickon dies in the midst. 

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I've never cracked the books.  To me, the show was fantastic through 4.  So much intrigue, intertwining paths, and there was a consistency to it all.  Apparently not consistency to the books, but I really don't care about that until I've read them.  After Season 4, it begins unravelling.  It's almost as if they are just getting tired of telling the story.

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Why is the show making it so hard to like the Stark siblings together? Sansa wanting to secretly become Queen of the North, why? She is home, safe, and what is wrong with being Lady of Winterfell. That's a nice comfy spot there. Instead of being a target by being the Queen. Her character doesn't make sense. She did make the right call about Glover (terrible, dude turns around five seconds after Jon leaves), but it was lacking, I was reminded of how Bran handled it when northerners came to him about Robb and he reminded them of his vows. She should have done that with Glover.

I don't know what they are doing with Arya, from being an unemotional killer to being overtly emotional about a bannerman and a man who did not swear any loyalty to Jon. Just seems like she is trying to instigate things where there wasn't. Of course Sansa likes nice things and is ambitious, who isn't? 

The show constantly making Jon an idiot for the plot purposes.

I'm actually liking Bran, just keeping to himself. But,  I don't get the whole purpose of him not being himself anymore. Just doesn't make him a character anymore... I long for the old Bran. 

I actually think Lannisters have better sibling chemistry and are able to stick together better than the Starks.

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8 hours ago, Illiterati said:

The Wheel metaphor was actually born in a discussion regarding the great houses of Westeros and how they are spokes that uphold the entire societal wheel.  So in a very real sense, Breaking the wheel (which she said she will do during this initial conversation) is very much a Westeros thing and not an Essos thing.

Yes, the speech is Westeros related: it's a speech from gong to a feudal kingdom where a king doesn't have absolute power but is beholden to barons/lords to abolute monarchy.

King John would be  a perfect illustration of a king who'd love to break the feudal wheel for the barons forced him to accept the Magna Carta. He could only dream of the absolute power that the Medicis in France and Henry VIII manufactured for themselves by taking down the ancient power houses and handing posts to favorites with much less ancestral claim. Of course that did not benefit the common man much, unless you were a favourite of the king (until you disagreed about something and lost your head), nor were common men so fond of kings having absolute power, for 3 centuries later you have the era of revolution where for once the kings were the ones losing their heads, and voted for parliament made laws, including the separation of judicial, lawmaking and order powers.

Dany is more like Catherine de Medici of France than a Robespiere. And it annoys the heck out of me that the show even tries to confuse her as someone with democratic aims, when clearly she isn't. She's still an an absolute judge and lawmaker all in one, combined with right to rule based on blood heritage and lifelong fealty bound to her person alone. Meanwhile her "government" is but a small council of favourites. And while I find that quite realistic of her (I don't expect her to invent democracy at all), that speech has been pushed and portrayed as something revolutionary and democratic for the people. It ain't.

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I think this episode was the worst episode of the show ever? I mean, Ramsay raping Sansa made me physically ill and it was probably the last straw for me in terms of having to come to terms with the noticeable decline in quality, but this past episode was the most...stupid. 

Like, scene after scene just failed to make me suspend my disbelief and everything is so damn rushed it's giving me whiplash. I'd say this episode, more than others, really did seem like watching Cliff Notes come to life. 

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22 hours ago, The Golden Wolf said:

Lastly why is Littlefinger still alive?!?! This is more baffling than people following Cersie. Sansa knows he kicked off the events that led to the WotFK, she also has the fact that he sold her to the Boltons to hold over his head. TheVale knights like Lord Royce would love to be rid of him and the sway he has over Robin. So why is this muthafucka still breathing? All it should take is Sansa talking to the right lords for him to git got

Just FYI, Show!Sansa actually doesn´t know that Littlefinger caused the war. Not that it would change much much after season 5 events...

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22 hours ago, WSmith84 said:

If Arya is unreasonably angry with Sansa next episode I'm going to be pissed. Anyone with half a brain cell could work out that she was coerced into writing it in an attempt to save her father. Arya can be mad, but if she doesn't put this behind her she's a moron.

I was really surprised when I found out that was the letter. Does Littlefinger have a copy or did this letter somehow survive the siege of Winterfell? 

Oh, Arya. Obviously critical thinking is not an element of House of Black and White training. 

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On 8/15/2017 at 1:22 PM, Prince of the North said:

Oh, you're right, of course.  But the Show!Wall will fall soon and there will be no more Nights Watch to worry about.  Also, very conveniently, Sam is the new head of House Tarly and Lord or Horn Hill;)

Well, no, he swore to have no lands, even if the wall falls. His sister is head of the house. But yeah, the show will probably ignore that. 

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On 8/15/2017 at 2:43 PM, Illiterati said:

It is indeed a poisoned chalice.  Would you want to complete an unfinished Catcher in the Rye?  You could probably muddle through the storyline, but your voice and prose would be markedly different from J.D. Salinger's, and you would take arrows from literary critics for it.

The Last Tycoon is an unfinished novel by F Scott Fitzgerald that was made into a series. While it's not a gigantic success, it hasn't taken arrows because they haven't butchered the characters

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