Ran

[Poll] How would you rate episode 705?

How would you rate episode 705?   266 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best?

    • 1
      16
    • 2
      13
    • 3
      15
    • 4
      17
    • 5
      20
    • 6
      26
    • 7
      44
    • 8
      60
    • 9
      33
    • 10
      22

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142 posts in this topic

I think they invested nearly all of the production quality for this episode in CGI animating Drogon's meeting with Jon (which was admittedly impressive). Nothing else in the episode made any sense. Why on Earth would anyone think that showing Cersei a white walker would change one single thing about her plans or her behavior? It obviously will not.  The whole journey North is such an obvious contrivance, probably designed as a way to kill off major characters (Jorah, the Hound) quickly so that they can devote less screen time to them. This was one of the worst episodes ever. 

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3/10

And I think this is generous, because I am not exactly sure what I am even giving points for. I guess for Drogon on Dragonstone, that was CGi-Budget well spent, for once. But for what else? The occasional instances of decent acting? The fact that some actors, like John Bradley, still try to make the best out of awful writing? The theme music? The fact that at least the camera crew know what their doing?

I felt this was clearly the worst episode this seasons so far because it was full of those cringeworthy scenes again what we haven't seen since season 5 and 6. Davos, Gendry and the two guards must have been one of the worst scenes in the show up to date. Who writes this shit? Who finds this funny? The scene in Eastwatch's prison was another example for writing that should get writers fired. My 15year old students write better stuff that this, and no, I am not exaggerating. It hurts to watch it.

I am at a point where I pity some of the actors. Liam Cunningham most of all - he is so wasted on a show that has dialogues for him that remind me of the 90s worst fantasy series. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau must wish for a soon kill-off as well. I guess by now Ian McElhinney is just grateful he could leave the show, no matter how stupid his exit was then. When I think of what other shows could do with some of the actors GoT has, I get a headache.

I can understand why some people enjoyed "The spoils of war" - it was badly written as well, but it was still entertaining in a way. But this episode's high rating surprise me, and kind of depress me as well. Last week, sombody on this thread said something like "whoever gives this less than an 8/10 must be trolling". Okay, you are entitled to that opinion. But I wonder: If you rate this episode an 8 or higher, what crappy shows must you watch beside GoT? Isn't giving this a 10 at least as much trolling as giving last week's a 1?

I also finished the last episode of S6 of "Homeland" yesterday. I'm not saying this is my favourite show, it definitely has its flaws as well. But damn do they have better writers and directors. There are character arcs, surprising twists, great moments of suspense. HL is far from being my favourite show, but watching this and GoT after each other just shows what good and bad TV-writing leads to.

At least I'm not worried anymore the show will spoil the books for me. Whatever TWOW will be, it will be so much better than D&D's current horseshit of a season - at least in terms of narrative and character.

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47 minutes ago, Gargarax said:

 Last week, somebody on this thread said something like "whoever gives this less than an 8/10 must be trolling". Okay, you are entitled to that opinion. But I wonder: If you rate this episode an 8 or higher, what crappy shows must you watch beside GoT? Isn't giving this a 10 at least as much trolling as giving last week's a 1?

At least I'm not worried anymore the show will spoil the books for me. Whatever TWOW will be, it will be so much better than D&D's current horseshit of a season - at least in terms of narrative and character.

these are the reasons I gave it a score of 1.

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4 hours ago, Arya_Stormborn said:

Designed as a way to kill off major characters (Jorah, the Hound) quickly so that they can devote less screen time to them. This was one of the worst episodes ever. 

They can't kill off the Hound because he has to meet Arya again and he has, has, has to fight his zombie brother. With all the fanservice in this show, no way they skip one of the fanserviest scenes possible. 

Jorah I don't see dying so soon after his cure and reunion with Dany. They can't make the Greyscale subplot that meaningless. 

Same goes for reintroducing Gendry as Robert Baratheon Part II. 

Mr. Undead Flaming Sword and Topknot are fair game. Unfortunately for Tormund-Brienne shippers, he may die, too.

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I gave it a 7, which is low by my rating standard.  Not lower because I did enjoy the Arya scenes.  And some of the one liners were decent.

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I actually rate this a 9 and would say it was my favourite episode of the season so far.

Yes, it didn't have the action of episode four, but I think there was more story and more character development.

As a Tyrion fan, it was nice to see him have a purpose again, even if it was only to strike a deal with Cersei through Jaime. I had waited a long time to see Jaime and Tyrion in a scene together, to see what kind of tension there would be. I think the show got it spot on. Jaime didn't quite know if he wanted to kill him or talk to him. He feels sympathy for Tyrion over Joffrey, but he can't look at him the same due to Tywin.

We all knew Gendry was coming back, but I actually like what they have done with him - the warhammer was a nice touch - and I am interested to see if he and Jon can strike up a relationship like that of Robert and Ned.

I don't know about everyone else, but I am pretty excited for the journey to catch a wight with Jon, Jorah, Gendry and the Brotherhood.

Edited by JordanJH1993

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For me its a 5

Worst of the season. There were some bits I enjoyed, but then toooo many thinks that really irritated me. I understand its only used to set up the season final 2 episodes but too much stuff was happening just because D&D want it to happen.

Jamie and Bronn escape? With Dany and Tyrion both clearly seeing Jaimes charge, and 100k Dothraki on horses in the area? They really should have captured them but hey, the writing wants it otherwise.

Tyrion and Jamie talk: Yes, I wanted them to talk, but with Jamie being Tyrion's prisoner and not Tyrion risking being caught by Cersei...

Tyrion creates a suuuper smart plan to catch a wight that makes no sense at all. Maybe he really is drunk most of the time...

7 awesome guys start out on that plan and simply walk beyond the wall. Did they forge weapons of Dragonglass that they mined? Who cares...

 

What I did like

Jorah meeting Dany was good. Jon petting Drogon was nice. Dany and Jon getting closer comes across much better than I thought. Burning the Tarlys was... well a very grey area, but I like it when stuff is grey and not all the simple good/bad typology.

Best scene was Arya and LF to me. Kudos to LF for staying ahead on the game.

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Once again, any episode where Littlefinger remains alive gets no better than a 5. With that out of the way, this show went from a lot of filler in the first couple episodes to all meat with not a chance to breathe in this one. The showrunners have really said F it to timelines and timeframes at this point. Everyone can get everywhere within seconds, yet Jon can't return to Winterfell once for the better part of a year?

And everything in this episode was unearned and so rushed - Gendry's chance encounter, The Fellowship of the Wight, the decision to just appease Cersei for reasons unknown. Too much stupid in one episode. Gets a 1 from me.

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13 hours ago, Gargarax said:

3/10

And I think this is generous, because I am not exactly sure what I am even giving points for. I guess for Drogon on Dragonstone, that was CGi-Budget well spent, for once. But for what else? The occasional instances of decent acting? The fact that some actors, like John Bradley, still try to make the best out of awful writing? The theme music? The fact that at least the camera crew know what their doing?

I felt this was clearly the worst episode this seasons so far because it was full of those cringeworthy scenes again what we haven't seen since season 5 and 6. Davos, Gendry and the two guards must have been one of the worst scenes in the show up to date. Who writes this shit? Who finds this funny? The scene in Eastwatch's prison was another example for writing that should get writers fired. My 15year old students write better stuff that this, and no, I am not exaggerating. It hurts to watch it.

I am at a point where I pity some of the actors. Liam Cunningham most of all - he is so wasted on a show that has dialogues for him that remind me of the 90s worst fantasy series. Nikolaj Coster-Waldau must wish for a soon kill-off as well. I guess by now Ian McElhinney is just grateful he could leave the show, no matter how stupid his exit was then. When I think of what other shows could do with some of the actors GoT has, I get a headache.

I can understand why some people enjoyed "The spoils of war" - it was badly written as well, but it was still entertaining in a way. But this episode's high rating surprise me, and kind of depress me as well. Last week, sombody on this thread said something like "whoever gives this less than an 8/10 must be trolling". Okay, you are entitled to that opinion. But I wonder: If you rate this episode an 8 or higher, what crappy shows must you watch beside GoT? Isn't giving this a 10 at least as much trolling as giving last week's a 1?

I also finished the last episode of S6 of "Homeland" yesterday. I'm not saying this is my favourite show, it definitely has its flaws as well. But damn do they have better writers and directors. There are character arcs, surprising twists, great moments of suspense. HL is far from being my favourite show, but watching this and GoT after each other just shows what good and bad TV-writing leads to.

At least I'm not worried anymore the show will spoil the books for me. Whatever TWOW will be, it will be so much better than D&D's current horseshit of a season - at least in terms of narrative and character.

 

You're right, overall it was a terrible episode. I think that I was the person who made the comment last time around about "8/10" but I'm with you 100% on this. 

The character interactions were largely contrived for reasons of economy (i.e quantity over quality, packing in as many plot points as possible at the cost of decent storytelling) and invariably a bit one-dimensional,  the plot proceeded at breakneck speed such that it left no time for realism or nuance, the "catch a Wight for Cersei" arc was incomprehensible at best and simply illogical at worst - not so much in terms of the conception of the idea itself (which could have been workable in theory) but the clumsy, implausible circumstances which led to its fruition and the formation of the "A-team" etc. Very disappointing. The big "re-unions" came across as somewhat rushed and artificial.

And I say that as a viewer who loved episode 4 and thought it made great TV. This time around, I do indeed question how any person of sound mind could have ranked it a 10 based purely upon its artistic merits or rather lack thereof.

Edited by Krishtotter

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21 hours ago, Consigliere said:

Cersei did mention a black haired baby boy back in season 1 who died of a fever. That should mean that Maggy's prophecy in season 5 was already null and void since she said Cersei would only have three children.

I have a secret tinfoil theory that Gendry is the only trueborn child between Cersei and Robert.  Because of that and the hatred Cersei had for Robert, she gave the infant away but claimed it died.  As I remember, but cannot prove, the text does say the child is sickly but it never says it died.

Edited by lakin1013

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17 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

I have a secret tinfoil theory that Gendry is the only trueborn child between Cersei and Robert.  Because of that and the hatred Cersei had for Robert, she gave the infant away but claimed it died.  As I remember, but cannot prove, the text does say the child is sickly but it never says it died.

In the books, Cersei never gave birth to Robert's child. She mentions that Robert got her pregnant once but Jaime found a woman to "cleanse" her and that Robert never even knew that she was pregnant.

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1 hour ago, Consigliere said:

In the books, Cersei never gave birth to Robert's child. She mentions that Robert got her pregnant once but Jaime found a woman to "cleanse" her and that Robert never even knew that she was pregnant.

And in the show (i think show, could be books too) Cersei tells Ned that she aborted the baby.  I just don't find Cersei a reliable narrator. 

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23 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

And in the show (i think show, could be books too) Cersei tells Ned that she aborted the baby.  I just don't find Cersei a reliable narrator. 

She tells Ned the baby was aborted in the books but not in the show. In the show there is also the scene between Cersei and Robert where she mentions their dead son so that puts to bed any question that she may have lied to Cat. Plus, it really stretches believability that the Queen, in the very public eye of the royal court, could carry a pregnancy to term, then give away said baby, then lie to the king about it and no-one is the wiser. I also don't see a narrative reason for doing such a thing. I also don't put much stock in the unreliable narrator argument unless it is backed up by solid reasoning based on actual evidence. I mean, characters are simply not unreliable narrators all of the time.

Edited by Consigliere

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I know some people want to be smug and be negative about everything, but really?

So fire breathing dragons, Ice demons that create and control zombies,  a fire god that allows his servants to raise people from the dead are all good, but everything else ( like the TV series only showing you  relevant character interaction not the boring time it takes the to travel) is so unrealistic if bothers you?!?

or when someone says "Character X would never say that or Character Z would never do that"/ They are fictional characters and do and say exactly what the creators of the fictional medium decide what they should do or say

relax and enjoy the show or don't watch it, that type of negativity is bad for you

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49 minutes ago, Kenton Stark said:

I know some people want to be smug and be negative about everything, but really?

So fire breathing dragons, Ice demons that create and control zombies,  a fire god that allows his servants to raise people from the dead are all good, but everything else ( like the TV series only showing you  relevant character interaction not the boring time it takes the to travel) is so unrealistic if bothers you?!?

or when someone says "Character X would never say that or Character Z would never do that"/ They are fictional characters and do and say exactly what the creators of the fictional medium decide what they should do or say

relax and enjoy the show or don't watch it, that type of negativity is bad for you

 

I'm certainly not trying to be smug. I am simply disappointed with the quality of this episode compared to last week's instalment - which I rated 10 and thoroughly enjoyed watching. I liked the episode before that one as well, the "Queen's Justice".

But imho, something has really gone awry with this one. I just didn't find it terribly well-written or well-put together. 

Edited by Krishtotter

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2/10

Impressive visuals.

Nauseating fan-service writing and scenarios, and heavy on the 'Game of Bros' that is the showrunner's signature style.  Male/Female ratio of interesting things to do and say leaning heavy 80/20%, with Dany having 15 of that 20.

Completely ridiculous concept of travel.  

Edited by Mister Stoneheart

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2 hours ago, Kenton Stark said:

I know some people want to be smug and be negative about everything, but really?

So fire breathing dragons, Ice demons that create and control zombies,  a fire god that allows his servants to raise people from the dead are all good, but everything else ( like the TV series only showing you  relevant character interaction not the boring time it takes the to travel) is so unrealistic if bothers you?!?

or when someone says "Character X would never say that or Character Z would never do that"/ They are fictional characters and do and say exactly what the creators of the fictional medium decide what they should do or say

relax and enjoy the show or don't watch it, that type of negativity is bad for you

Forgive me, but I don't think you understand much about storytelling or fiction if you make statements like that. A good story is above all a plausible story, which means that characters act, react and speak plausibly. Realism within a work of fiction means that what happens must follow all laws at work in this fictional world. Of course the author can make character say anything, but every character is a construct that builds up in the mind of the reader/viewer, and whatever the do or say next has to fit tat construct.

Critical viewers are not smug, they simply have other expectations than you have. Expectation as to how the passing of time is handled (nobody wants to see travelling, but there are many other ways to suggest Eastwatch is not a hour's travel from Dragonstone).

Apply your argument to another topic and you'll see how silly it is: Does it make sense to say that everybody who doesn't like Trump's politics should just shut up, that you can either agree with him or say nothing at all? Stupid, right, for the same reason it's stupid here. If people like something, there will and should be a discourse around why they like it, and if the disklike it, there should be a discourse there as well.

Being critical of the show is not at all bad for me, it's actually the opposite. There is no other show that has taught me more what poor storytelling is than Game of Thrones, and as I teach literature and occasionally film, discussing the show's flaws makes me better at my job. I even use scenes as examples of how not to tell something (though I also use some good scenes as positive examples).

I have no problems with people who like this show - good on you! Live and let live. Doing the opposite - making angry comments about people who's opinion differs from your own – seems pretty immature to me and contributes to the bad atmosphere in these threads so much more than the often well-explained criticism of the show.

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11 minutes ago, Gargarax said:

Being critical of the show is not at all bad for me, it's actually the opposite. There is no other show that has taught me more what poor storytelling is than Game of Thrones

I never thought of it that way but it's so true! It really makes me less mad at myself for spending this much time on these boards. Sometimes I think that arguing for years about GOT is almost like a course in writing.

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This seemed like one of those episodes in a series where they have to create the setting for whats next but also to reintroduce all the old characters who will play parts in the next few episodes of this season.

Tormund, Davos, and Jon just had some of my favorite lines of the series.

"Which Queen? The one that rides dragons or the one that fucks her brother?"  

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22 hours ago, Gargarax said:

3/10

"And I think this is generous, because I am not exactly sure what I am even giving points for. I guess for Drogon on Dragonstone, that was CGi-Budget well spent, for once. But for what else? The occasional instances of decent acting? The fact that some actors, like John Bradley, still try to make the best out of awful writing? The theme music? The fact that at least the camera crew know what their doing?"

************

I too, give this a 3/10 for basically the same reasons as you.  Loved the close up of Drogon with Jon etc.  Apart from that the rest of the episode was asinine!  Mainly because of the writing.  Dreadful.  Jaime surfaces a couple of miles away from where he went down into the depths - still wearing the heavy armour and golden hand!  Bronn must be Aquaman.

What group of people with 2 brain cells to rub between them would think going north of the wall was a good idea?  Seriously?  Someone couldn't tell Dany to get on a dragon and go and take a look for herself.  And on the way back, pass by the Red Keep and burn Cersei.  

Yes, 3 out of 10 is generous - and mostly for Drogon's close up.

 

Quote

 

 

 

Edited by Woofless

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