Col Cinders

I think the scroll...

104 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

21 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

Please, who knows what was written in the scroll, I wasn't able to read it in the screen

"Robb, I write to you with a heavy heart. Our good king Robert is dead, killed from wounds he took in a boar hunt. Father has been charged with treason. He conspired with Robert’s brothers against my beloved Joffrey and tried to steal his throne. The Lannisters are treating me very well and provide me with every comfort. I beg you: come to King’s Landing, swear fealty to King Joffrey and prevent any strife between the great houses of Lannister and Stark. Your Faithful Sister, Sansa."

Edited by Europebound01

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1 minute ago, Col Cinders said:

I just had a "holy shit!" moment reading your post.

Arya is acting like a child.  Emphasis on acting.

The argument and friction between the two sisters is part of their drawing him out!

Of course I don't know this.  But I think you are on the right track.

I sure hope so.  It really bothers me watching two Starks going at each other.  

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This is where I hope Sansa is the one manipulating LF and letting him think she's setting him up. 

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They should have waited till the end of the season to bring Bran to Winterfell.

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This is such a great plot line. A letter written under duress is worth soo much. But then, Sansa also did marry Ramsay Bolton of her own free will and is thus evil. And I guess she always dreamed about becoming the Lady of Winterfell.

And why prefers Arya Jon Snow - a bastard and usurper with no claim to Winterfell - over her own flesh and blood? Sure, she was closer to him but Bran and Sansa are still alive, as is she herself. And they all come before Jon. Especially in the show.

The point of this story is to make Arya believe Sansa feels the need to hide something about her actions back in KL. That she really betrayed the Starks and thus intends to betray Jon.

Sansa herself has nothing to do with this entire thing because Littlefinger wanted Arya to find the letter.

But the whole setup is moronic because there would no need to keep such a letter nor any reason that anybody trying to hide wouldn't just destroy it.

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44 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

I sure hope so.  It really bothers me watching two Starks going at each other.  

yeah but they always disliked each other. I could see it going either way.

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1 hour ago, King Edd of House Tollet said:

So, finally Littlefinger was being Littlefinger....but, he forgot one thing...Bran

I mean, eventually Bran will get out of his Dr. Manhattan-thing for a time to tell everyone LF is a cunt

Not to forget, Arya is a walking lie detector herself

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1 hour ago, Lurid Jester said:

I sure hope so.  It really bothers me watching two Starks going at each other.  

And I hope that discord happens. I hate that in a series as complicated as Asoiaf, it becomes as generic as all Starks being good just because they carry the Stark name and have no ambitions of their own

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Why is he planting the letter in his own room?  Isn't that just making himself Arya's target as well?  Why wouldn't he plant it in something of Sansa's and arrange for Arya to find it?

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1 minute ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

Why is he planting the letter in his own room?  Isn't that just making himself Arya's target as well?  Why wouldn't he plant it in something of Sansa's and arrange for Arya to find it?

He was hiding it, it is a treasure to use it in later time, whe the time will come he will say to Arya and the lords of the north that Sansa is a traitor and that he found the letter

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Arya was suspicious of Littlefinger and followed him.

Arya saw Littlefinger given a scroll and heard him thank the person who gave it to him on behalf of the Lady of Winterfell.

Arya snuck in and found the note, which Littlefinger knows she did and probably intended for her to do, but she doesn't necessarily know he knows/intended for her to do that.

 

So given Arya was already suspicious of Sansa and was suspicious enough to follow Littlefinger, is she suspicious enough to suspect him of working against Arya herself?  Or only suspicious enough to take the note and Littlefinger thanking the person on behalf of Sansa at face value?

Aside from figuring it all out straight away, which seems unlikely given Arya is fairly confident in her abilities, Arya pretty much has two possible theories about Sansa and Littlefinger at this point.  So what does she think their end game is?  Just getting Winterfell for themselves or at worst, she could possibly think they are trying to hide that they are still loyal to the Lannisters?

Does Arya act on it straight away, given that defeating the Night King is more important than whatever Sansa and Littlefinger's end game is?  It's been a long time since Arya has had to think about more than survival and revenge, it's hard to predict what she would do if she had more power or a broader understanding of the macro-political environment.

What does Sansa do if Arya confronts her again?  Arya seems to prefer to avoid confrontation, given Sansa had to drive her to say what she meant when she confronted Sansa about the dissenters.

I also think it's important that the Knights of the Vale have a speaking role and were publicly denouncing Jon in favour of Sansa (even though she herself told them 'no').  They will support her with or without Littlefinger now, so Littlefinger has lost his plot armour there.

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7 minutes ago, Future Null Infinity said:

He was hiding it, it is a treasure to use it in later time, whe the time will come he will say to Arya and the lords of the north that Sansa is a traitor and that he found the letter

He was hiding and watched Arya come out of his room.  He knew she was following him and make a big show of "Lady Sansa thanks you for your service."  He planted it knowing she was going to find it.  If he wanted to claim Sansa is a traitor, he could have just gone to Arya with the letter and played up the whole "I loved your mother" thing he did with Bran (even that would be weak, but if that was his goal).  By letting her witness all that he's implicating himself, making Arya his enemy. 

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5 minutes ago, Blue-Eyed Wolf said:

He was hiding and watched Arya come out of his room.  He knew she was following him and make a big show of "Lady Sansa thanks you for your service."  He planted it knowing she was going to find it.  If he wanted to claim Sansa is a traitor, he could have just gone to Arya with the letter and played up the whole "I loved your mother" thing he did with Bran (even that would be weak, but if that was his goal).  By letting her witness all that he's implicating himself, making Arya his enemy. 

You are right, I think maybe he want Arya to believe that LF is hiding the letter of Sansa and that those two are accomplices and traitors, I'm sure if he gets in in such situation he can save himself

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2 hours ago, hallam said:

As in kill someone...

But I rather suspect that Arya is a bit cleverer than LF imagines.

#FACTS Arya is way more intelligent than he knows. She has been training for years on this kind of thing. And I don't believe for one second she would harm Sansa in the process. It's Littlefinger she doesn't trust. She know what he is. She knows he plotted with Tywin against her family and the north. She is gathering Intel.

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Posted (edited)

19 minutes ago, The Bastard of Summer said:

#FACTS Arya is way more intelligent than he knows. She has been training for years on this kind of thing. And I don't believe for one second she would harm Sansa in the process. It's Littlefinger she doesn't trust. She know what he is. She knows he plotted with Tywin against her family and the north. She is gathering Intel.

But she also has a lot of anger and disregard against Sansa, this will prevent her from being clear-headed. Mark my words, when Sansa will explain her that she is being manipulated by Littlefinger, that he is the one who benefits from the chaos, Arya will answer she accuses someone else to protect herself like she always did.

The problem with Arya is she wants Sansa to be guilty of everything, to want the power, before Littlefinger began to manipulate her. Arya is like her father, Jon, Robb, she is a perfect target for Littlefinger because she is impulsive and frank.

Edited by Infeth

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9 minutes ago, Infeth said:

But she also has a lot of anger and disregard against Sansa, this will prevent her from being clear-headed. Mark my words, when Sansa will explain her that she is being manipulated by Littlefinger, that he is the one who benefits from the chaos, Arya will answer she accuses someone else to protect herself like she always did.

The problem with Arya is she wants Sansa to be guilty of everything, to want the power, before Littlefinger began to manipulate her. Arya is like her father, Jon, Robb, she is a perfect target for Littlefinger because she is impulsive and frank.

Arya may or may not harbor hate and feelings of discontent towards Sansa. But it's not without reason and it's completely understandable. They have had a strained and rocky relationship in the past. She has no reason to just fully trust Sansa. I don't believe she wants Sansa to be guilty. She just doesn't trust Sansa's thoughts and feelings. Arya has done some magical training. Just like Sansa has done political training. She addressed the situation now she is gathering intelligence. Arya knows herself and has been rash in the past. But she has also been training. It takes discipline to learn an art. I do not think she will just take the letter to Sansa and put a knife to her throat and be like haa haa haa I knew you were plotting against Jon. She will again confront Sansa but this time about the letter. She will ask her the orgins behind the letter. There will be a conversation. After Sansa tells her what happened Arya will be able to tell if she is lying or not because that is what she TRAINED to do. Sansa is in no danger from Arya. Arya doesn't want to hurt her own sister. Does she dislike Sansa? Yes but she loves her. She doesn't like the person that Sansa was growing up and vise versa. You don't have to like your family just love them. There is no written rule that says otherwise.

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Posted (edited)

Here is Babyfinger's hustle in a nutshell:

1. Either sew dissent against Jon or simply notice it, and also notice Arya being jealous of her sister.

2. Make it look like you're buying spies and conspiring with lords on Sansa's behalf. 

3. Allow Arya to see you accept a Meaningful Secret Raven-graph, and somehow know she will break into your room and recognize the matress being slightly different from how she remembers it from her childhood. (?)

4. Creepily observe her around a corner, then lean against the wall and smirk at yourself. (Did he do this at King's Landing? Was it a Thing with people? "Oh, there's Lord Baelish, smirkin' again." No, the show just needed to be extra-sure we noticed his dastardliness.)

5. Watch Arya and Sansa go at eachother's throats. 

6. ???

7. Sit on the Iron Throne. 

Edited by darmody

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3 hours ago, hallam said:

But I rather suspect that Arya is a bit cleverer than LF imagines.

She isn't. But she is stabbier. 

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2 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

And why prefers Arya Jon Snow - a bastard and usurper with no claim to Winterfell - over her own flesh and blood? 

That's a weird way to put it. Jon is her flesh and blood too, even if he's her cousin instead of her half-brother. 

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