Jcat

A Wight for Cersei? Seriously?

227 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, LucyMormont said:

You said this several times. How is it that Cersei knows about the WW? I must have missed the whole thing, I can't recall her admitting their existence.

I cannot answer for others, but my reason for believing Cersei is accepting of the idea of an army of the dead, is primarily based on her demeanor after Jaime informs her of what Tyrion told him.  She does not dismiss the notion as ridiculous, and specifically names 'dead men' as one of the many threats she and Jaime will have to overcome.  Also as others have pointed out Cersei already has a kinda of Wight in Ser Gregor, so she knows given the right circumstances such things are possible.

31 minutes ago, 3sm1r said:

I feel the need to stress this point. Not only the plan itself doesn't make sense. Also all its details are illogical: why should they send two characters that are so important (Jon also has diplomatic tasks to carry on)? And don't tell me Mr Snow is the only one who saw the WW 'cause it's not convincing at all. Also, why should the Hound and Tormund be willing to go with them? This is still very puzzling to me, if someone has a proper answer I beg him to give it to me. 

If you will remember Ser Jorah volunteers out of the blue to take on the mission of going north and capturing a Wight.  I think it was Ser Davos who told him that the Wildings, who would be needed as guides, did not know and would not follow Ser Jorah.  So thats when Jon stepped into this morass as leader.  And yeah I don't know what special powers Jon now possesses as "the only one who has faced them."  Of course, thats not true because Tormund has as well.  Credit to Tormund he calls the plan out for it's sheer stupidity, but goes along anyway because he is a stand-up guy.  The Hound goes as part of his 12 step program.  That is as proper an explaination of this lame scheme and the motivations of it's participants that I can provide.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Jcat said:

If you will remember Ser Jorah volunteers out of the blue to take on the mission of going north and capturing a Wight.  I think it was Ser Davos who told him that the Wildings, who would be needed as guides, did not know and would not follow Ser Jorah.  So thats when Jon stepped into this morass as leader.  And yeah I don't know what special powers Jon now possesses as "the only one who has faced them."  Of course, thats not true because Tormund has as well.  Credit to Tormund he calls the plan out for it's sheer stupidity, but goes along anyway because he is a stand-up guy.  The Hound goes as part of his 12 step program.  That is as proper an explaination of this lame scheme and the motivations of it's participants that I can provide.

Thank you for your answer. Yes, that's the best we can do. And I guess you agree with me on the fact that it's still not very convincing ^^

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, falcotron said:

Go back and watch the scene near the end of this episode where Cersei talks to Jaime. Cersei makes it clear that she already knew about the meeting with Tyrion. She laughs at the idea of proof, but it's pretty clear that it's not because she doesn't believe Tyrion, but because she doesn't need any proof. She's already "come to believe that an accommodation with the Dragon Queen could be in our immediate interest", and she's prepared to fight dead men just like dragons, and defeat whatever stands in their way.

 

I cannot answer for others, but my reason for believing Cersei is accepting of the idea of an army of the dead, is primarily based on her demeanor after Jaime informs her of what Tyrion told him.  She does not dismiss the notion as ridiculous, and specifically names 'dead men' as one of the many threats she and Jaime will have to overcome.  Also as others have pointed out Cersei already has a kinda of Wight in Ser Gregor, so she knows given the right circumstances such things are possible.

When Tyrion said "Cersei thinks the AotD is nothing but a story, made up by wet nurses to frighten children", and then came up with the most moronic plan of all times, which, by the way, none of the bright people in that room thought it was moronic, I thought that at least he would know what  her sister thinks about the Others. After all, he did not believe in them until recently, and now only considers the possibility of their existence because people he trusts in,  say WW are real and an immediate threat. 
So, I did not take Cersei's words  as her acknowledging  the Army of the Death, but of her kind of thinking "who knows which is their game, this is obviously a trap, they'll bring some necromancily relived guy like the Mountain and they  will try to make it pass as proof of something that does not exist, but I'll pretend to play their game, because an armistice gives me time to rebuild my armies and to think a plan to screw them"
Of course you may be right .

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 minutes ago, 3sm1r said:

Thank you for your answer. Yes, that's the best we can do. And I guess you agree with me on the fact that it's still not very convincing ^^

Not at all convincing.  Which is why I started this topic.  I was really angry and disillusioned last Sunday after watching episode 5.  I have never been so disappointed by a TV series.

I was very heartened to hear how many others feel the same way I do.  And not just on this forum, but elsewhere like the GoT Youtube community.  Maybe some of these complaints will eventual filter through to Benioff and Weiss, so they do a better job next season.

Lets hope tonight's episode gives us all hope for something better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Jcat said:

If you will remember Ser Jorah volunteers out of the blue to take on the mission of going north and capturing a Wight.  I think it was Ser Davos who told him that the Wildings, who would be needed as guides, did not know and would not follow Ser Jorah.  So thats when Jon stepped into this morass as leader.  And yeah I don't know what special powers Jon now possesses as "the only one who has faced them."  Of course, thats not true because Tormund has as well.  Credit to Tormund he calls the plan out for it's sheer stupidity, but goes along anyway because he is a stand-up guy.  The Hound goes as part of his 12 step program.  That is as proper an explaination of this lame scheme and the motivations of it's participants that I can provide.

Jorah, I can understand. A foolhardy quest doesn't seem at all out of line for where he is right now.

But Davos and Jon, yeah, I'm having a tough time with how they got there. Sure, the wildlings aren't going to follow Jorah, but the next line should be, "And that's just one of the reasons this plan is stupid", not "And so we'll send the King in the North with you, before we've finished negotiating anything or mining the dragonglass or even letting Sansa know what he's up to." After that point, it's not really worth trying to make sense of anything. Gendry? Whatever, I'm just surprised they didn't suggest taking Tyrion and then stopping to pick up Littlefinger along the way.

Although the Hound, and the BwB in general, I understand again. They're all resigned to having some unfathomable mission for R'hllor that almost certainly involves risking their lives against the dead. And for the Hound, being torn apart by wights on Jorah's stupid mission doesn't sound any worse than being torn apart by wights at Eastwatch, which is where he'd probably end up otherwise, so why not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On August 13, 2017 at 10:29 PM, Jcat said:

Something incredible happened tonight a show I have loved and followed for seven seasons just crapped all over itself.  Or should I say D & D just crapped all over it.  The scheme Tyrion proposes for Jon and crew to go to Eastwatch, and get a Wight as a showroom model to convince Cersei to at least grant a temporary armistice--is colossally stupid!  The show runners have ruined Tyrion.  

Does Tyrion not know his sister by now?  Even if they get a sample, can they preserve it long enough to get it down south?  Would Cersei even believe this is what Tyrion and others claim it to be, and not some alchemist's trick?  And even if he could convince her she is as likely to make an alliance with the Night King as she is Daenerys.  Cersei has no scruples.

I have never been so disappointed in any TV show I have followed as I am tonight.

Well, I think it's a stupid plan, but I'm not disappointed. Now that I've seen the episode, I'm wondering if Tyrion's plan will be aided by a Viserion-wight flyover. That might convince Cersei of the threat, not that I can ever imagine her working with the Dragon Queen. Jaime and the people of Westeros might be convinced that they'll be better of with Dani, though. Convincing them should be Dani and Tyrion's real endgame with any trip to King's Landing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How many bloody times are they going to use "A few good men?" Ramsay only needs "20 good men." Yarasha only needs "a few of the best Iron Islanders." Jon only needs "a few men" to fight the deserters. Mance only needs to send "a few good men" south of the wall. Dany only needs to send Daario and "a few good men." 

I know they need to use the actors and save on the costs of large scale battles, but this one really bites the dust. It's a clear move to kill off named characters that they can't figure out how to use and create fake stakes. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now