Jump to content

U.S. Politics: I Did Nazi That Coming

Manhole Eunuchsbane

By Manhole Eunuchsbane,
in General Chatter

Recommended Posts

DMC Council Member

DMC

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, butterbumps! said:

Does anyone know the parameters of that classification, and why the white supremacy ones haven't qualified?

The State Department very specifically classifies foreign terrorist organizations.  In terms of domestic terrorist groups, there is no comprehensive list by any agency.  However, the PATRIOT Act grants wide latitude to law enforcement in investigating any individual suspected of domestic terrorism.  What I would like, rather than encourage that hideous act, is for there to be a domestic classification similar to the state department's foreign one.  For example, the legal ramifications for those on the foreign list include:

Quote

Legal Ramifications of Designation

  1. It is unlawful for a person in the United States or subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to knowingly provide "material support or resources" to a designated FTO. (The term "material support or resources" is defined in 18 U.S.C. § 2339A(b)(1) as " any property, tangible or intangible, or service, including currency or monetary instruments or financial securities, financial services, lodging, training, expert advice or assistance, safehouses, false documentation or identification, communications equipment, facilities, weapons, lethal substances, explosives, personnel (1 or more individuals who maybe or include oneself), and transportation, except medicine or religious materials.” ...

If it is unlawful for citizens to even provide material support for such "dangerous" foreign organizations, clearly there can be domestic organizations that pose just as much of a threat, beginning with the klan.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrueMetis Council Member

TrueMetis

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, James Arryn said:

Yeah, that's not what anyone was saying, though. He didn't say it should be allowed because of it's validity,  but rather that it's invalidity is so self-evident that discussions would readily expose same, and all this without the cost of civil liberties across the board.

Yeah I'd like to think that, but as the continued existence of creationism, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and climate change deniers show being self evidently wrong rarely seems to stop people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Seli Council Member

Seli

Posted
Posted

And luckily the FBI still manages to stop actions by right wing terrorists. 

Quote

The FBI has arrested an Oklahoma man on charges that he tried to detonate what he thought was a 1,000-pound bomb, acting out of a hatred for the U.S. government and an admiration for Oklahoma City bomber Timothy Mc­Veigh, according to court papers.

...

In one conversation he said he believed in the “Three Percenter” ideology — a form of anti-government activism that pledges resistance against the United States government on the belief it has infringed on the Constitution, according to court papers.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/oklahoma-man-charged-in-anti-government-bomb-plot/2017/08/14/97816686-80f9-11e7-ab27-1a21a8e006ab_story.html?tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.1b2f368879bd

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Ormond Council Member

Ormond

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, TrueMetis said:

Yeah I'd like to think that, but as the continued existence of creationism, flat earthers, anti-vaxxers, and climate change deniers show being self evidently wrong rarely seems to stop people.

All of the above are definitely wrong.

But they are not "self-evidently" wrong. You do need to have some education in science to understand why creationism, anti-vaxxism, and climate change denial are wrong. There is nothing about them that makes them clearly wrong without any explanation having to be given, which is what "self-evident" manes. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
butterbumps! Council Member

butterbumps!

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, dmc515 said:

The State Department very specifically classifies foreign terrorist organizations.  In terms of domestic terrorist groups, there is no comprehensive list by any agency.  However, the PATRIOT Act grants wide latitude to law enforcement in investigating any individual suspected of domestic terrorism.  What I would like, rather than encourage that hideous act, is for there to be a domestic classification similar to the state department's foreign one.  For example, the legal ramifications for those on the foreign list include:

If it is unlawful for citizens to even provide material support for such "dangerous" foreign organizations, clearly there can be domestic organizations that pose just as much of a threat, beginning with the klan.

ok thanks, I hadn't realized it was foreign-focused exclusively.  So yea, that seems really reasonable to me too-- classify these domestic terrorist groups as terrorist groups.  I'm really interested in how such designations are made, and how to craft it such that illiberals/ regressives couldn't wield it to curtail others' rights or movements.  It can be done, because it's already being done.    The link you posted outlines that in order to be classified currently: 

  1. It must be a foreign organization.
  2. The organization must engage in terrorist activity, as defined in section 212 (a)(3)(B) of the INA (8 U.S.C. § 1182(a)(3)(B)),* or terrorism, as defined in section 140(d)(2) of the Foreign Relations Authorization Act, Fiscal Years 1988 and 1989 (22 U.S.C. § 2656f(d)(2)),** or retain the capability and intent to engage in terrorist activity or terrorism.
  3. The organization’s terrorist activity or terrorism must threaten the security of U.S. nationals or the national security (national defense, foreign relations, or the economic interests) of the United States.

Which is all fairly broad, so I'd be curious how determinations are made at a finer scale.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrueMetis Council Member

TrueMetis

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Ormond said:

All of the above are definitely wrong.

But they are not "self-evidently" wrong. You do need to have some education in science to understand why creationism, anti-vaxxism, and climate change denial are wrong. There is nothing about them that makes them clearly wrong without any explanation having to be given, which is what "self-evident" manes. 

 

Right fair enough, though I would then say nothing is self-evidently wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
TrueMetis Council Member

TrueMetis

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, Manhole Eunuchsbane said:

Have you ever listened to a Nickelback album? Watched Guy Fieri's television show? 

I like Nickelback...

Don't care one way or the other about Guy Fieri. (That's the restaurant guy with the weird hair right?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Manhole Eunuchsbane Council Member

Manhole Eunuchsbane

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 minute ago, TrueMetis said:

I like Nickelback...

Don't care one way or the other about Guy Fieri. (That's the restaurant guy with the weird hair right?)

Yeah, the guy with the frosted tips who typically visits greasy spoons and the like and eats really unhealthy foods and spouts off cheesy tag-lines and whatnot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kalbear Council Member

Kalbear

Posted
Posted
12 minutes ago, theguyfromtheVale said:

Millions of Germans, Italians and Spaniards failed to see the obvious wrongness of fascism in the first half of the 20th century. I fear that far too many historically illiterate folks in the US are likely to fall into the same trap if current discourse continues.

Millions of US citizens did the same. The Nazis held rallies in Madison Square Garden. They were well-attended. 

Also:

https://twitter.com/MitchBenn/status/897204306289598464

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Mr. Chatywin et al. Council Member

Mr. Chatywin et al.

Posted
Posted

Well this undercuts Trump's message from earlier today:

Quote

President Trump told Fox News he is “seriously considering” issuing a pardon for former Arizona sheriff Joe Arpaio, who was convicted last month of criminal contempt for ignoring a judge’s order to stop detaining people because he merely suspected them of being undocumented immigrants.

Trump told the news outlet during a conversation in Bedminster, N.J., that the pardon could come quickly, perhaps in a matter of days. The news outlet reported the conversation on its website Monday.

“I might do it right away, maybe early this week. I am seriously thinking about it,” Trump said, according to Fox News. He said Arpaio was a “great American patriot” who had “done a lot in the fight against illegal immigration.”

“Is there anyone in local law enforcement who has done more to crack down on illegal immigration than Sheriff Joe?” Trump said, according to Fox News. “He has protected people from crimes and saved lives. He doesn’t deserve to be treated this way.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/14/trump-says-hes-considering-pardon-for-joe-arpaio/?utm_term=.d911398ca349

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Kalbear Council Member

Kalbear

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Well this undercuts Trump's message from earlier today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/08/14/trump-says-hes-considering-pardon-for-joe-arpaio/?utm_term=.d911398ca349

Not really. If the nazis had run over a hispanic he would have been fine. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Go to topic listing
×
×
  • Create New...