purple-eyes

Can we officially call Rhaegar a jerk now?

258 posts in this topic

Hold fire until we know the whole story.

However, if Rhaegar did get his marriage annulled, because he'd fallen in love with Lyanna, then it was a shitty action.  It was a colossal insult to his wife, the Dornish royal family, and his own children, who would be deemed illegitimate.  It doesn't matter whether he loved Elia or not.  When you're the Crown Prince, your personal feelings don't come into it.  Marrying for political reasons comes with the job.

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4 minutes ago, Charlie Hustle said:

If he was obsessed with the prophecy, then he felt obligated to do so. I, and the rest of us, knew that Rhaegar knew this act with Lyanna would start a shitstorm of a war, but this had to be done for the sake of the world. Heads will chopped, thousands will be dead, but this child had to be born.

Sure, born. Doesn't mean born and putting the said baby to be 1st in line after him, bastardizing his other kids and dumping his 1st wife

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Posted (edited)

I kinda wish He,Elia, Lyanna and all of the kids survived though, i want to know about his explanation to all the lords about why he did what he did. Even Ned who lives in the North and respect the Night's Watch brushed off Cat's concern about stuff beyond the wall as "you've been listening to Old Nan again". How could he convince other lords about war of the Dawn, that it's not just his desire to marry Lyanna  ?

Edited by redtree

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Posted (edited)

Where have we been told that Elia was abandoned, that Lyanna was a homewrecker, that Rhaegar was a hound.  NOWHERE.  It is equally possible that Elia was sick, but loved Rhaegar very much.  She could not give him more children, so she gave him what she could - an annulment. As I remember, Gilly did not give us a date.  Rhaeger could have been a single dude at the tourney at Harrenhall.  Then they met and the rest is history.

Edited by lakin1013

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Just now, lakin1013 said:

Where have we been told that Elia was abandoned, that Lyanna was a homewrecker, that Rhaegar was a hound.  NOWHERE.  It is equally possible that Elia was sick, but loved Rhaegar very much.  She could not give him more children, so she gave him what she could - an annulment. As I remember. Gilly did not give us a date.  Rhaeger could have been a single dude at the tourney at Harrenhall.  

Great point, hell it could have even been Elia's idea.  

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Pretty sure in the books, it will be shown that he got married with Lyanna but he didn't annul his marriage with Elia Martell. Targs practiced polygamy, but this hasn't been shown in the show, so the writers decided to make it easier for the show watchers to understand.

Also, not sure that the annulment would make the other two children bastards, it would just be a divorce between Rhaegar and Elia. Anyway, Aegon being cut from the show makes again this less complicated than it is in the books.

Calling Jon Aegon after he already had a kid called Aegon doesn't make much sense, unless somehow the prophecy requires the prince who has been promised to be called Aegon, and so Rhaegar maximized his chances by calling both of them with the same name.

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1 hour ago, Newstar said:

Yes. The show has left out the bit about Rhaegar wanting one more kid for his prophecy and Elia being presumably unable to provide one for his health, which would make the Henry VIII comparison even stronger, since Henry VIII set aside his marriage because Anne Boleyn promised him a son.

 

I love how fans have been saying that Dany should supposedly STFU about being the rightful queen because Robert took the throne by force and that she's arrogant and entitled for thinking otherwise, but the moment it's revealed that Jon is Rhaegar's legitimate son, he's suddenly the rightful king. If Dany's claim doesn't entitle her to be queen of Westeros because Robert took the throne and kicked out the Targs, then neither does Jon's.

You're right that Jon is no more entitled than Dany to the throne, but I would enjoy seeing Dany undone by her own logic.  I like Dany, but her "I am the rightful queen" stuff annoys me.  And I'm still annoyed that she allowed her brother to be killed so brutally.  He was horrible, but he could have been sent away...

1 hour ago, johndance said:

How do we know the books won't go the same route? Let's hold off on calling the writers dumb for now. It's very possible it happens the same way in the books. 

Right now, the show writers are telling the story, so they bear the brunt of the audience's fury (though I'm not a fan of insulting real people and calling them names).  If GRRM uses this same concept, the audience can reserve the right to call him dumb too! ;) Of course they can all redeem themselves with a better explanation of what happened, and they may do so.

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Where is everybody getting this idea that Jon's name is Aegon? I thought that was definitely off the table since Rhaegar's first son was named Aegon and that would make no sense at all.

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Posted (edited)

15 minutes ago, RhaenysB said:

And the Rhaegar hate goes on. While Jaime is our very favorite character. 

But sure. We can call Rhaegar a jerk. Just as long as I can call Sansa a bitch too :D 

So what, people can't voice dislike toward a character ? If it's an annulment then a negative feeling toward him is a rather expected. And no, Jamie is not my favorite character. What has Sansa done that made you put Rhaegar and Sansa in the same parallel i wonder ?

Edited by redtree

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1 minute ago, Adam_Up_Bxtch said:

Where is everybody getting this idea that Jon's name is Aegon? I thought that was definitely off the table since Rhaegar's first son was named Aegon and that would make no sense at all.

I thought it was Jaherys or something like that.  

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Rhaegar is a jerk if you think of this as a romance novel.  However, this is the Song of Ice and Fire, and as I understand it, Rhaegar believed his mission in life was to unite ice and fire and bring the prince that was promised to the world.  It's much bigger than "how could he abandon Elia?", "did he really love Lyanna?", etc.

Also, remember the context:  this work is based on medieval Europe when sense of duty for everyone but especially princes, came before everything, including love and romance.

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10 hours ago, purple-eyes said:

Did Elia and her brothers know her marriage was annuled before she died?

I don't think so.  Besides, the annulment can be easily contested.  The marriage with Elia was consummated and therefore legal in every way.  It cannot simply be ended.  The legality of Rhaegar's marriage to Lyanna can be easily contested.  

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A jerk who gave the best ruler in Westeros so far the right to become a King of all seven kingdoms.   

 

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There is sure a whole lot of ass-umtion going on in this thread.  No one knows the facts, and an annulment does not get approved without cause. If you read TWoIaF you'll remember Aerys said Rhaegar's chindren "smelled Dornish".  We know that Dornish people are very open sexually, what if the children born to Elia were not Rhaegar's? Perhaps she had a paramour at court...someone she loved before and continued to be with after the political marriage to Rhaegar.

For all the talk about his nobility and honor, to have him abandon his children and wife without cause doesn't make sense...but here are a bunch of folks choosing to condemn him here without any facts.  A wise man once said:  "Shut that shit DOWN".  There is a lot of information still to be revealed, patience folks!

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2 minutes ago, DarkBastard said:

There is sure a whole lot of ass-umtion going on in this thread.  No one knows the facts, and an annulment does not get approved without cause. If you read TWoIaF you'll remember Aerys said Rhaegar's chindren "smelled Dornish".  We know that Dornish people are very open sexually, what if the children born to Elia were not Rhaegar's? Perhaps she had a paramour at court...someone she loved before and continued to be with after the political marriage to Rhaegar.

For all the talk about his nobility and honor, to have him abandon his children and wife without cause doesn't make sense...but here are a bunch of folks choosing to condemn him here without any facts.  A wise man once said:  "Shut that shit DOWN".  There is a lot of information still to be revealed, patience folks!

Rhaegar gets a massive number of people defending him.

On my end, I'm comfortable with calling a Dragon a Dragon and that Robert did the world a favor by ending him.

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34 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

 Rhaeger could have been a single dude at the tourney at Harrenhall.  Then they met and the rest is history.

In the scene Gilly read that High Septon Maynard issues the annulment for Rheagar and married him to someone else at the same time and the ceremony took place in Dorne.  So at Harrenhall Rheagar was still married unless Rheagar and Lyanna had been in Dorne before that and had already been secretly married.

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47 minutes ago, lakin1013 said:

Where have we been told that Elia was abandoned, that Lyanna was a homewrecker, that Rhaegar was a hound.  NOWHERE.  It is equally possible that Elia was sick, but loved Rhaegar very much.  She could not give him more children, so she gave him what she could - an annulment. As I remember, Gilly did not give us a date.  Rhaeger could have been a single dude at the tourney at Harrenhall.  Then they met and the rest is history.

You missed the part where he had his marriage to ellia annulled and we'd another woman at the same time. 

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25 minutes ago, The Sunland Lord said:

A jerk who gave the best ruler in Westeros so far the right to become a King of all seven kingdoms.   

 

Aerys raped Rhaella and gave birth to mother of dragons who is probably as important as Jon in saving the world from ice zombies. 

Should we stop calling mad king a jerk? should we say it is so damn justified to rape his wife because it gave us Dany? 

 

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10 minutes ago, C.T. Phipps said:

Rhaegar gets a massive number of people defending him.

On my end, I'm comfortable with calling a Dragon a Dragon and that Robert did the world a favor by ending him.

That's fine, you just don't like him...I get that.  I'm calling out people who are making assumptions about this particular event without all the facts.

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7 minutes ago, purple-eyes said:

 

Aerys raped Rhaella and gave birth to mother of dragons who is probably as important as Jon in saving the world from ice zombies. 

Should we stop calling mad king a jerk? should we say it is so damn justified to rape his wife because it gave us Dany? 

 

Hey I already said he's a jerk. And what type of jerk. 

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