Alfonso Sánchez Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 In westeros, there is one guy who is the prototype of a knight, who has met the best recent knights (Arthur Dayne, Barristan Selmy, Hound, Gregor, Brienne, Himself, etc) and has seen the 7 armies of westeros, the Greyjoy's raiders, the Northmen of house Stark, the well supplied and trained army of the Lannister, the exotic Dorne armies, the extravagant armies of the riverlands and highgarden, and the might of house Baratheon up close, and Jaime Lannister himself declared that any army would be defeated by the Dothraki. Unsullied nonwhistanding, do you think this is true?. I think this is a quip in an otherwise good dialogue, or a manner of saying "this is desperate and we are doomed", the Dothraki army until now has not proven itself against a proper phalanx, (only the unsullied and they owned the Dothraki), they are light cavalry for god sake, and their weapons wouldn't fly in real life as shock troops, they do not attack in formation, and whilst using fancy acrobatics when raiding, they aren't that good against other knights, one that would use a long spear, for example. After all, this is a show, and hyperboles are bound to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moiraine Sedai Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The Dothraki are the best fighters in the world within the story. That has been confirmed. Robert thought so. Now the word comes from Jaime himself. I have a strong dislike for Jaime but he is knowledgeable about battles. He faced the Dothraki and barely survived while losing his own forces. I think we can safely say that the Dothraki are the best fighters out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hrulj Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The dothraki didn't fare that well without Dragons. They are raiders and are great at picking off fleeing enemies and pouring trough punctured lines. Claiming they are the best fighters without a Dragon is idiotic and another D&D mess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan33 Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The most stupid and annoying line in this otherwise decent episode,fuck the dothraki i wanna see them against an equal force of knights and mounted knights led by book mauntain lets even make him the general for the battle even he will win against them and lets have the battle be in open field to see the dothraki get +3 points on everything they still lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The Dothraki are good fighters and they will naturally win against any infantry as they fight from horseback. They are fast and light and many and ferocious and surprising. They have a different style of fighting than westerosi soldiers and the element of surprise is also beneficial. This is what Jaime and Robert both saw. On the ground, in single combat against an armored soldier, they have the disadvantages that were shown when Jorah fought err... ehm.. not Mago but who was that guy? Qhoto. And when he discussed fighting with Rakharo. Straight longswords pierce through the weak points of an armor and dpthetaki don't have armor. It comes down to speed vs protection on the ground. A prepared Westerosi cavalry could also be an equal match to them. Both teams would have advantages and disadvantages. The historical parallel are the nomadic tribes that raided Europe In the early Middle Ages. The Huns had a similar lifestyle and fighting style (shooting arrows backwards from horseback, playing tricks on the enemy) and there wasn't much the western soldiers could do in spite of wearing chainmail and breastplate. And when the mongols raided Europe a few hundred years later they swept over western armies too because they had the element of surprise, the fear of the unknown, light horses and stranger technique to their advantage. It'snot like the Dothraki are a joke without dragons. Robert was terrified of the idea and he knew some shit about military. There was no word of dragons back then. So let's not write off the Dothraki as having plot and dragon armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samwell_Tarly Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 hour ago, Hrulj said: The dothraki didn't fare that well without Dragons. They are raiders and are great at picking off fleeing enemies and pouring trough punctured lines. Claiming they are the best fighters without a Dragon is idiotic and another D&D mess I disagree I think they would have faired just as well without Drogon, obivously a few more Dothraki would have died. We see drogon break the line of soldiers for the Dothraki to steam through, now quite clearly this helps but a few scences later we see the Dothraki smash another part of the line. The first charge is somewhat held then the second pretty much destroys the what did hold on the first charge. I agree with you the Dothraki are not the best soldiers as Jamie pretty much said. I think he should have said they are Barbaric, moral less and the shear size of the Army would run over all the Armies Cersei/Jamie could muster together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Louis II (KLII) Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Any army have their specialities. It is a Rock, Paper , Scissors , thing. Dothraki are great in AN OPEN FIELD and against infantry or light cavalry. Have the dothraki inside the walls of a castle without their horses against , lets say the unsullied. They will be done. Added: I think even that with equal numbers the dothraki would not fair well against the knights of the vale, just because the quality of armor... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Finally, the Dothraki confirmed as best army. Yes. The Dothraki are the best army. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjlxking Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 It was confirmed that in open field, they are the best armies. However, sieging or defending specific areas...not so much Also, Jamie's statement I believe included the use of dragons e Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 I really want to see The Unsullied lock-step battle formation and their iron discipline on the battlefield. That would be something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L’Age d’or Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Jaime is fictitious character, what he says is what the writers have him say, if he said I could win Westeros singlehandedly would you believe him? The Dothraki are an undisciplined band of raiders, they don't wear armor, their horses are naked and they lack any sort of collective movement training. Their cavalry charge is not even a proper one, they just gallop and scream while staying far and spread over a field, pike men wall would always break them apart. The stupidity of two seasoned generals in Tarly and Jaime in not posting outriders and scouts while ignoring the high ground was bad enough, but they would have still mopped the floor with the Dothraki if the savages were not supported by hellfire missile airstrikes. The fact of the matter is, that the writers are extremely limited in military tactics department and either do not have advisers or choose to ignore them, no cavalry would ever charge into a line of pike men, they would have to either attack the flanks or from behind, since the Lannister army and allies had a body of water behind them it made it impossible, basically making the Dothraki screamers useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Dingleberry Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Off topic here but can the lack of any consistency with the Dothraki's outfits be addressed. Jon is in full fur outfit and heavy coat, while big Dothraki that follows Dany around has on furs but still short sleeved. Same for most of the other Dotrhaki I have seen (on the coast and in Dany's throne room most are in short sleeves). I just don't understand how a desert plain people are not colder than Northerners that visit Dragonstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L’Age d’or Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 1 minute ago, Sir Dingleberry said: Off topic here but can the lack of any consistency with the Dothraki's outfits be addressed. Jon is in full fur outfit and heavy coat, while big Dothraki that follows Dany around has on furs but still short sleeved. Same for most of the other Dotrhaki I have seen (on the coast and in Dany's throne room most are in short sleeves). I just don't understand how a desert plain people are not colder than Northerners that visit Dragonstone. The Dorthraki are the best, so they are the best? This seems to be the logic, the same as the Unsullied running around naked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys the Glad Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 Sure, the Dothraki are the best warriors. This is true in the same sense as it is also true that a fully clothed Bronn is able to swim with a fully armored Jaime half a mile, that Cersei is a sensible and effective ruler with the full support of the people and the nobles after the destruction of the Sept of Baelor and that Sam is able to steal Heartsbane from Horn Hill. These statements are of course true to the extent that they have happened in the show. That, however, does not mean that they are not clearly ridiculous and defy all laws previously set up govern this fictional universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Dingleberry Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 26 minutes ago, L’Age d’or said: The Dorthraki are the best, so they are the best? This seems to be the logic, the same as the Unsullied running around naked. Lol that's the conclusion I've come to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Sánchez Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 7 hours ago, RhaenysB said: The Dothraki are good fighters and they will naturally win against any infantry as they fight from horseback. They are fast and light and many and ferocious and surprising. They have a different style of fighting than westerosi soldiers and the element of surprise is also beneficial. This is what Jaime and Robert both saw. On the ground, in single combat against an armored soldier, they have the disadvantages that were shown when Jorah fought err... ehm.. not Mago but who was that guy? Qhoto. And when he discussed fighting with Rakharo. Straight longswords pierce through the weak points of an armor and dpthetaki don't have armor. It comes down to speed vs protection on the ground. A prepared Westerosi cavalry could also be an equal match to them. Both teams would have advantages and disadvantages. The historical parallel are the nomadic tribes that raided Europe In the early Middle Ages. The Huns had a similar lifestyle and fighting style (shooting arrows backwards from horseback, playing tricks on the enemy) and there wasn't much the western soldiers could do in spite of wearing chainmail and breastplate. And when the mongols raided Europe a few hundred years later they swept over western armies too because they had the element of surprise, the fear of the unknown, light horses and stranger technique to their advantage. It'snot like the Dothraki are a joke without dragons. Robert was terrified of the idea and he knew some shit about military. There was no word of dragons back then. So let's not write off the Dothraki as having plot and dragon armor. The thing is... they do not fight like huns or mongols, there are no tactics or proper charges... The broadswords, bastard swords and such are not specialized weapons, like the rapier, falchions and dothraki arakhs, ironically, you are the one driving the dothraki to the corner, the arakhs are not good against armored enemies and proper charges. There has not been a single case of a light cavalry breaking the line of a heavy infantry phalanx, we are saying that in universe they may be the best, but in real life, dothraki wouldnt be any good at grand scale battles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 The Dothraki charge was disappointing. Then again Lannister formation to receive it also. One line of shields, one line of spears, one line of archers? Shields are useless against charging cavalry and the men with them would be better served carrying spears. Two ranks of spears and a line of archers? Well not exactly a proper infantry line before firearms, but better. Deeper line / pike blocks would be better. Dramatically it would also be better to have the confident horde break themselves on nervous but well led Lannister stragglers... Only to call in air support. Stunts like standing in the saddle and shooting arrows? Bah. Similar horde of cavalry completely failed at Assaye, routed by a charge of a single British cavalry regiment. Properly ordered Mongol force? Sure, make the charge and win. With a heavy (and armored) cavalry and lances, the Lannister line would be broken, but this... Bah. Dothraki are overrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfonso Sánchez Posted August 14, 2017 Author Share Posted August 14, 2017 So a consensus is met?, Dothraki are the best just because the plot require it, not because their weapons/tactics or else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 21 minutes ago, Alfonso Sánchez said: The thing is... they do not fight like huns or mongols, there are no tactics or proper charges... The broadswords, bastard swords and such are not specialized weapons, like the rapier, falchions and dothraki arakhs, ironically, you are the one driving the dothraki to the corner, the arakhs are not good against armored enemies and proper charges. There has not been a single case of a light cavalry breaking the line of a heavy infantry phalanx, we are saying that in universe they may be the best, but in real life, dothraki wouldnt be any good at grand scale battles... Well... They are at least supposed to be, aren't they? In the books the Dothraki are supposed to mirror that kind of culture and society and fighting style. I guess the show is playing the Wild West card in the Dothraki scenes, I think somebody even said that, going for Indians vibe... not sure who or when, Maybe it was Just a random opinion I read online. That's what I said too, that longswords (whatever the accurate term is) are more efficient than curved arakhs, Jorah even discusses that with Rakharo in season 1. I don't know, that must be true. I don't see the show making a distinction between light cavalry and heavy cavalry and horse archers. It's just horses > foot soldiers. I would say that's a usual approach in historical / medieval series and films, I've never seen that distinction portrayed on screen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhaenysBee Posted August 14, 2017 Share Posted August 14, 2017 7 minutes ago, Alfonso Sánchez said: So a consensus is met?, Dothraki are the best just because the plot require it, not because their weapons/tactics or else? I mean what are you expecting? Why is Cersei queen? Because the "plot" (hbo fanfiction) requires it. No logic necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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