Bets On The Father of Cersei's Current Pregnancy?

[Cron]

1 hour ago, Iron Mother said:

"Iron Mother" means a few different things but no not because of that.

as for the other thing, you won't find too many minds as twisted as mine

Really?

Interesting.

So, who is your favorite character on GoT and why?

And least favorite, and why?

[Cron]

59 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

I'm convinced the "valonqar" will have nothing to do with the show.  It never made reference to it.... and there are too many people they would want to keep "available" to kill her without having to stick to that part of the prophesy.

But...did you read everything I wrote?  We've been told the major characters will all have the same endings in books and show.  Thus, if Jaime is the Valonqar and kills Cersei in the books, he WILL kill her in the show, too, whether the word "Valonqar" is ever mentioned in the show or not.  The word "Valonqar" is not what's critical here.  What is critical is whether Jaime is going to cross Cersei off.

59 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

Eurine impregnating her is maybe the MOST beyond fan fiction even thing I have heard so far.  I'm not spanking you or anything, it's just so totally out of context and just.... no.

Spanking?  An interesting word choice.  You are a female, right?

59 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

I've said before, there will be an incredibly vivid and catastrophic event for her to lose the child that will break Jaime from her forever (which needs to happen anyway) and whether or not he kills her (which is totally and maybe probably possible) will have nothing to do with it.  Other than, if he becomes so enraged at her that he basically stabs her big pregnant belly in a wild rage and that would be shocking enough in itself.

Yikes.  Frankly, I don't see why Jaime would kill Cersei just cuz the baby dies.  Or did I get confused about what you are saying?

My reasoning is that Jaime is currently devoted to Cersei, that has to change cuz he's destined to kill her, and the most likely thing to cause that to happen is Jaime finding out that Cersei has been sexually unfaithful to him.  And, even more appalling to Jaime, finding out that the baby is not even his.

Note that this would pretty closely parallel the schism between them in the books.  In the books, Jaime is VERY upset upon finding out that Cersei has been having sex with other men, especially b/c Jaime has ALWAYS been faithful to her (Jaime has never had sex with anyone but Cersei, in the books and show).  In the books, he throws that letter from her in the fire, and it's clearly b/c he is VERY upset that she has been having sex with other men (plural).

For Jaime to find out about Cersei's infidelity in the show and cross her off b/c of it would be very consistent with the books, and cause them to end up in the same place as book-Jaime and book-Cersei, albeit via a different path.

59 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

1) that baby WILL NOT live
2) Cersei WILL NOT live
3) that baby WILL BE the source of their final ending as a love affair in one way or another

1)  I agree

2) I agree (indeed, Cersei is prophesied to die, and we have been told the endings in the show for major characters will be the same as in the books)

3)  This is also consistent with my opinions.

[Iron Mother]

40 minutes ago, Cron said:

Spanking?  An interesting word choice.  You are a female, right?

Yikes.  Frankly, I don't see why Jaime would kill Cersei just cuz the baby dies.  Or did I get confused about what you are saying?

You never got spanked by a woman??  You missed out but I meant it that I wasn't "going against you".  Men and their wicked thoughts

Second part yeah you misunderstood me.  And I can't remember what I meant actually and this subject has gotten out of control lol.  Oh I remember.  I said this a couple time in other posts so I don't wanna keep saying it.  I SAID the death or loss of the baby will tear them apart FOR GOOD.  In real life, even miscarriages can rip a couple apart of cause an eternal rift. 

[Iron Mother]

1 hour ago, Cron said:

Really?

Interesting.

So, who is your favorite character on GoT and why?

And least favorite, and why?

That's just too hard to distinguish.  Off the top of my head perhaps Arya would be my favorite and right now I just don't have it in me to explain lol.  I have been locked on this forum for what feels like weeks.  Maybe another time. 

I do know I hate Bronn.  I just really don't want to see him ever again and he serves no purpose but for a plot pivot to Jaime and a total fan service.  I think when that mission to Dorne happened (which was total vomitous writing to give Jamie something to do and to kill off Myrcella and Trystane and create a vengeance for Cersei against Ellaria AND to begin to wipe Dorne off the map of Westeros) that's when Bronn IMO became nasty chaff which needed to be clipped off.

When he sang that song about the Dornishman's wife.... and how he and Jaime basically play-acted that fight scene against the Sand Snakes (which changed the most ruthless, cunning and dangerous women in Westeros into weak little girls who couldn't even overpower a one-handed man) my hatred was firmly planted.  His little "tryst" with Tyene (who is NOT Ellaria's daughter) and the poison thing................. was awful to the extreme.

Ever since then, I have wanted to never see him again.

[Cron]

46 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

You never got spanked by a woman??  You missed out but I meant it that I wasn't "going against you".  Men and their wicked thoughts
Second part yeah you misunderstood me.  And I can't remember what I meant actually and this subject has gotten out of control lol.  Oh I remember.  I said this a couple time in other posts so I don't wanna keep saying it.  I SAID the death or loss of the baby will tear them apart FOR GOOD.  In real life, even miscarriages can rip a couple apart of cause an eternal rift. 

Oh, okay.  Thanks for clarifying all of that!!

[Cron]

41 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

That's just too hard to distinguish.  Off the top of my head perhaps Arya would be my favorite and right now I just don't have it in me to explain lol.  I have been locked on this forum for what feels like weeks.  Maybe another time. 

Okay, that's cool Maybe some other time then.

41 minutes ago, Iron Mother said:

I do know I hate Bronn.  I just really don't want to see him ever again and he serves no purpose but for a plot pivot to Jaime and a total fan service.  I think when that mission to Dorne happened (which was total vomitous writing to give Jamie something to do and to kill off Myrcella and Trystane and create a vengeance for Cersei against Ellaria AND to begin to wipe Dorne off the map of Westeros) that's when Bronn IMO became nasty chaff which needed to be clipped off.

When he sang that song about the Dornishman's wife.... and how he and Jaime basically play-acted that fight scene against the Sand Snakes (which changed the most ruthless, cunning and dangerous women in Westeros into weak little girls who couldn't even overpower a one-handed man) my hatred was firmly planted.  His little "tryst" with Tyene (who is NOT Ellaria's daughter) and the poison thing................. was awful to the extreme.

Ever since then, I have wanted to never see him again.

Don't like Bronn, huh?  Well, I think that's probably why we all come here, cuz it's interesting to talk about different perspectives, and I respect yours.  Bronn's not my favorite character, but I think he does provide good comic relief (which can be important in a story), and I've always liked how (in the show) he's kind of a bridge between Jaime and Tyrion.

Personally, I like Tyene a lot and hope she and Bronn end up together in the end, but I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

(Sorry, i know we don't really agree on Bronn, but maybe someday we can discuss some other areas in which we do have more common ground.  For example, I do think Arya's great, and I'm sure she's one of my top 5 favorite characters, maybe even higher.)  

[ShadowKitteh]

On August 14, 2017 at 6:32 PM, Wildling Queen said:

I don't have any doubts at this point that it's Jaime's baby. I just don't think it will matter. That prophecy told her she'd have three children, not four.

I agree that baby - if she's not lying about the pregnancy - will never draw breath. 

However, it will matter very much who the father is, and I think Euron just hasn't gotten around to taunting Jamie yet. 

Or Cersei will taunt Jamie with it when she grows tired of Jamie trying to make peace, claiming it's Euron's, and how he's such a better man than Jamie!

Real or Cersei's lie, this baby will be the death of Cersei by Jamie's hand. 

[darmody]

On 8/14/2017 at 9:00 PM, Cron said:

I think at this point it's pretty clear it's gonna take something BIG for him to cross her off, and this would qualify.  Not b/c of things she has done to other people, but b/c of what she did to HIM.   Jaime is really not too easy to hurt.  He doesn't really care about money, or power, or ruling.  In order to hurt him, it's got to be personal, and this fills the bill, I think.

It doesn't have to be personal. Larry cares about the realm and its people. There's a real knight within him, underneath the cynical bravado. Which used to come out when they were developing his character with Brienne, but hasn't been seen in a long while. It definitely should have come out when Cersei blew up the Sept and his son walked out the window, but the show is pulling out all the stops to hang onto Badass Cersei for the rest of this season at least. 

If going Mad Queen didn't sour Larry on his Hotsister, the Army of the Dead and the Night King can. If he didn't care about a couple dozen or a hundred or however many people died in the Sept, he will care about all of humanity. 

Cersei will use the zombie threat to get it over on Dany, the Night King will get past the Wall, or *something* will happen along those lines to turn Larry on Cersei. It won't be Urine between her sheets. 

[darmody]

On 8/14/2017 at 9:10 PM, Cron said:

It's fittingly ironic, too, cuz Jaime was cheating with Cersei when she was married to Robert, and we KNOW Cersei will have sex with nearly anyone in exchange for nearly anything, especially from the books.

I don't know about the books, but on the show we only know about her having sex with Robert, Larry, and Lancel, as I recall. With Robert was it to get something, which was to hold onto her position as queen by doing her wifely duty. (Actually pretending to do it, replacing her you-know-what with hand stuff.) She used Lancel to kill Robert, but her cousin sex seemed to be more of a way to replace Larry and get her rocks off. 

She mentioned something about seducing anyone who sacked King's Landing except Stannis, but I don't know how serious she was. And those were extreme circumstances, wherein she could be exchanging sex for her life, not just anything. 

[Iron Mother]

Speaking of Mad Cersei, did anyone get the same notion I did in the infamous Cersei chapters from A Feast For Crows book?

I found them to be almost complete mad comedy.  She's out of control, rampant, she's speaking to herself (written that way) and her inner thoughts are just off the hook hilarious.  I went through and read just those chapters one after the other to get the real out of it.

Talk about slutting it up, she has the Kettleblack on one side, Jaime on the hook over there, I think Lancel was involved at one point, she is meeting with people and talking total shit right to their faces but in such a way they don't get she's talking shit to them, interrupting and shutting down the Iron Bank..... dispensing the Small Council after she gets what she wants and leaving everyone else's wants totally unaddressed, sending people away in ridiculous ways, summoning people and threatening them too do things in like 5 minutes or she will have their head, CHATTERING insanely both in her thoughts and to others, on and on.

I encourage anyone who hasn't paid real attention to those chapters to check them out again.  From a writing standpoint they are brilliant but it also throws a huge spotlight on the Madness that is Cersei.  It begins I think with the prophecy and ends with her getting thrown into the black cell by the Faith Militant.  Basically the whole arc of last season.

[darmody]

On 8/14/2017 at 11:34 PM, Cron said:

Well, I suppose hard core Tyrion fans (not sure if you're one or not) might like it if Tyrion is the Valonqar, but like I said, I think it's just too obvious.

If you ever watch a murder mystery t.v. show, or read such a book, here's some advice:  The most obvious suspect DIDN'T DO IT.  It's too obvious.

(In fact, I'll go a step further.  During such a story, the next most likely candidate, that all the subtle evidence seems to be building up to during the course of the story, didn't do it, either.  That's just misdirection for the more clever sleuths reading or watching)

But look around, early on, and through the story, and ask yourself "Who is the LEAST likely person to have committed this crime?"  Okay, more often than not, THAT'S the culprit.

I'm not a huge fan of that genre (mysteries), but I've seen enough to know that, in guessing who the bad guy is, look for the least likely person early on, cuz that's very likely "whodunit."

And so..Tyrion has been way too obvious from the beginning, and Jaime was the LEAST likely person (to Cersei, and to us, way back when we first learned about the Valonqar), so I've believed Jaime is the odds-on favorite for a long time now

 

Dwight Schrute says that it's never the person you most suspect, nor is it the person you least suspect. It's always the person you most medium-suspect. 

[hallam]

18 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Not counting her current pregnancy, she's already had four.  

While trying to console Cat in season one, while Bran was in a coma, she talks about how she felt when she lost a son to sickness. 

In the books, Cersei aborts Robert's child. 

[RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon]

My theory is that it is Jaime's & we saw he is happy to have a new child on the way. But Jaime & Cersei are going to fall out, how?

I think Cersei will have an abortion. D&D like to shock, we've had child murder a plenty but not a graphic abortion scene. My guess is the last ep this series we'll be treated to Qyburn graphically aborting the baby. Jaime will by then already have lost a lot of faith in Cersei & early next season & kill her, prob as she tries to burn KL or something, I think the show has hinted enough that it is Jaime that kills her. 

Why would Cersei abort? Her 3 other children died horribly and traumatically, plus if she does actually see a wight & think it's the end of the world she might snap & decide she doesnt want to bring another child into the world just to lose it & go through that suffering again.

[Iron Mother]

26 minutes ago, RobertOfTheHouseBaratheon said:

Why would Cersei abort? Her 3 other children died horribly and traumatically, plus if she does actually see a wight & think it's the end of the world she might snap & decide she doesnt want to bring another child into the world just to lose it & go through that suffering again.

A boon to your theory is when Stannis came and Cersei was on the throne with Tommen, with poison, she was going to kill him rather than him be captured/killed/whatever and then dumps the poison when Tywin and Loras come busting through the door.

I don't think it will be abortion, tho.  But agreeing with you again, I think it will be some horrific event that causes the loss of the birth that breaks the bond between her and Jaime for good.  Whether it's her fault or not, the failure of the birth will kill both of their hopes and dreams and cause Jaime to finally separate from her... which will then drive her completely over the edge for being totally alone after all.

[falcotron]

On 8/14/2017 at 7:00 PM, Cron said:

I think at this point it's pretty clear it's gonna take something BIG for him to cross her off, and this would qualify.  Not b/c of things she has done to other people, but b/c of what she did to HIM.   Jaime is really not too easy to hurt.  He doesn't really care about money, or power, or ruling.  In order to hurt him, it's got to be personal, and this fills the bill, I think.

But I think D&D see Jaime as a hero. For a secondary villain's redemption arc, you often use a personal betrayal by the primary villain. But that doesn't work for a hero, because it's not heroic.

The most obviously heroic possibility is that he and Cersei plot to use the armistice to backstab Dany along with taking out the dead, but then he sees the Night King for himself and realizes that there are bigger issues than his own personal stuff, and he chooses saving the entire world over saving Cersei.

The other major heroic option is that he gets to repent over something he personally feels guilty for. He's wronged Tyrion, and there's obviously seeds of conflict between him and Cersei over dealing with Tyrion. But I think this one is less likely.

On 8/14/2017 at 7:00 PM, Cron said:

Also, if that's not what's in store, what's the point of her being pregnant at all, especially so late in the series, and especially since, as you say, she is prophesied to only have 3 children??

Without her pregnancy, her whole "1000-year dynasty" motivation is patently silly, too silly for the viewers to accept Jaime going along with it. It could well be as simple as that.

On 8/14/2017 at 7:20 PM, Wildling Queen said:

Missandei said this season that the word everyone was using for "prince" was genderless in Valyrian, it could also mean "princess." Could the word "valonqar" also be genderless? Could the younger sibling be Arya considering that she's a younger sibling of Sansa, the girl Cersei tortured for so long?

The biggest problem with this theory isn't the gender of valonqar, but the fact that if you take it to mean anyone's younger sibling, rather than specifically Cersei's, it's a prophecy that applies to 80% of the people in Westeros. It's not like "Sansa's younger sibling" is the only thing, or even the main thing, that defines Arya's character. The prophecy might as well have just said "You will be killed by the human."

All that being said, Arya using Jaime's face could work. Then it technically fulfills the prophecy in an uninteresting way, but appears to fulfill it in the "proper" way (especially if she doesn't reveal herself until after Cersei is dead).

On the third hand, Arya seems to like killing people in thematically satisfying ways, like slitting Walder Frey's throat the same way he slit Cat's, and it's hard to see how strangling Cersei with her bare hands would be fitting.

(Also, that would imply a different ending for Cersei in the books and the show. In the books, the twist in the PtwP prophecy isn't that the word for "prince" is genderless, but that the prophecy actually uses the word for "dragon" metaphorically for "prince", and dragons can change sex; that twist obviously doesn't work for "valonqar".)

[Armand Gargalen]

Has anyone considered Ed Sheridan as the possible father? He may have made it with the gold wagons into KL. He is a nice, good looking guy. 

I´ll bet on him

[storm.131]

On 15/08/2017 at 11:13 PM, Deminelle said:

I see two possibilities regarding prophecy:

It could be Hound literally strangling Cersei.

Or...

...she will die because of the pregnancy. The new baby is the sibling in the prophecy. Her tears following the death of her three children have dried, when she starts expecting again. The baby couldn't strangle her but it could be figure of speech to tell that she dies of eclampsia. 

The problem with her dying in childbirth is that that would automatically mean she would have given birth to 4 children when part of the prophecy was that she would have 3 children, so it wouldn't add up.

[NexivRed]

8 hours ago, Cron said:

Whoa, really? I don't get that vibe at all.  Why was she having sex with Lancel on the show, then?  To show how devoted she is to Jaime?  I don't think so.

It was shown on the show as to control him. In the books it's also suggested she gets horny and he's a poor Jaime substitute. But that's the books. Show Cersei has never been written to be flirtatious or horny. She constantly talks to Jaime about "us" and almost seems repulsed by anyone else. Lancel is a Lannister so is just about bearable. 

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Well, sometimes pregnancies happen "by accident." Whether they make sense or not. Right?

Right. And she's sensible enough not to invite that possibility. A legitimate child with Euron would make sense. 

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POTENTIAL SPOILERS:  With respect, have you read the books?  Do you know the prophecy of the Valonqar?

Yes and yes. 

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Well, I'm absolutely 100% convinced that jaime is the Valonqar and is destined to kill Cersei.

That's your perogative but you undo your argument by mentioning the term because everyone knows they specifically chose to not have it be part of the prophecy on the show. 

Believe it for the sake of the prophecy if you want, but it would have more credibility if you could provide legitimate reasons why Jaime would kill her other than using the prophecy as his destiny. 

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And yes, I'm aware that the Valonqar has not been mentioned in the show, but I strongly believe that won't matter if in fact Jaime is the Valonqar in the books, cuz we've been told that the final endings for the major characters will be the same in the books and the show (albeit, often, by different routes).

That could just mean "dead or living." There's a whole lot of "how" that's completely different. 

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So, if Jaime is the Valonqar in the books and is going to kill Cersei, I am absolutely convinced he will kill Cersei in the show, too, whether the word "Valonqar" is ever uttered in the show or not.

That's you convinced. This storyline is not convincing though because of the timeline I mentioned. 

We're gonna have 8 more months till Jaime leaves Cersei? So in your version, where will the Walkers be at this point? Where will Jaime and Cersei be? Will Dany be queen? 

This is where you just sound bloody minded about the prophecy; it makes no sense in the reality of the show. 

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And that's the "purpose" of the big reveal that Jaime is not the father, and Euron is.  To give Jaime the "motive" he "needs" to cross Cersei off, probably as a crime of passion, despite the fact that all current indications are that he's her lap dog.

And that's my reasoning.

 

The only way the timeline works is if Cersei and Jaime leg it together at some point, leaving the iron throne to start an exiled life somewhere together. Then she gives birth to a baby she's prophesised to never have (so you'll believe a prophecy not mentioned but ignore one that is?), and because it has some dark hair they know it's specifically Euron's. And Jaime at that point suddenly gets so mad he kills her. 

You think a.) they're gonna write that? and b.) it'd make for good T.V.? Cersei, the villain, die alone somewhere after all the fighting is done?

It'd be so spectacularly shit I doubt even these writers would do it. 

[storm.131]

18 hours ago, lakin1013 said:

 

“

Cersei: Will the king and I have children? Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you. So, the prophecy specifically tells about children with THE KING.   If the king in question is Robert, then Cersei could have gone on to have other children with other men.

I agree that Cersei's question can be interpreted to mean "how many children will we have?" but Maggy's answer changed that because she divided the children into his and hers, so to me it suggests that Maggy prophesied that Cersei will only have 3 children in total.

[Deminelle]

1 hour ago, storm.131 said:

The problem with her dying in childbirth is that that would automatically mean she would have given birth to 4 children when part of the prophecy was that she would have 3 children, so it wouldn't add up.

The baby is not born yet in that case scenario, it won't be death at childbirth, hence not counted as 4th child. I don't know how they do the maths anyway because Cersei herself says she already gave a birth to one child before those three.