Cron

Is Jaime and Bronn NOT Being Captured the Most Unrealistic Thing in the Entire Show??

87 posts in this topic

It definitely bugs me. But what's worse is that they didn't do anything valuable with having him go back to Cersei. They could have achieved everything they did in that episode and much more if Jamie had been captured, and then sent back to Cersei to agree terms. We could have had a brilliant role reversal where Jamie is the prisoner and it's Tyrion asking him to swallow his pride and cooperate, but instead we were forced to stomach a pregnancy gaff. Not to mention the value of having Danaerys meet the man who killed her father. I can forgive unrealistic events if they serve a greater purpose, but it didn't feel like this did. If anything, it was a missed opportunity.

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Eh, maybe there's a fast current.  Didn't see eddies at the river's edge or anything around the rock but whatever.

Going out past the wall on a mission to capture a wight without bringing horses though seems kind of silly.

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11 minutes ago, Donaldys I Trumpagar said:

Pretty unrealistic, yes.

But nothing, absolutely nothing, will ever top the surreal & laughable images of the Sandsnake girls fighting grown men.

Ah, yes, the battle of Dorne.  I remember it well.

Or are you also referring to the fighting on the ship this season, too?

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6 minutes ago, Cron said:

Yeah, it was pretty bizarre.  I spent the whole week POSITIVE that Jaime and Bronn were now going to be captives of Dany, but...nope.

Honestly, the possibility that they could somehow escape from being captured never even crossed my mind, never even occurred to me for a second.

It would have been like, after the end of Episode 101, which ended with Bran falling from the tower, we had learned at the beginning of Episode 102 that he never hit the ground, cuz a gust of wind blew him sideways into a window where he landed safely on a pile of hay.

HARR!!

 

LOL yup that would have been on the same level.

As soon as I saw the depth of that water at the end of the previous episode, I was disappointed by the writing.  However, the opening of this episode pissed me off so much I was not in a receptive frame of mind for all that followed.  I had to watch it again later in the day to appreciate the scenes that weren't as bad as I thought they were on first viewing LOL

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3 minutes ago, Mr Smith said:

It definitely bugs me. But what's worse is that they didn't do anything valuable with having him go back to Cersei. They could have achieved everything they did in that episode and much more if Jamie had been captured, and then sent back to Cersei to agree terms. We could have had a brilliant role reversal where Jamie is the prisoner and it's Tyrion asking him to swallow his pride and cooperate, but instead we were forced to stomach a pregnancy gaff. Not to mention the value of having Danaerys meet the man who killed her father. I can forgive unrealistic events if they serve a greater purpose, but it didn't feel like this did. If anything, it was a missed opportunity.

Great points.   Maybe it's all just a result of them having to streamline the story cuz they have limited time in only 7 episodes this season.

But then, they would have saved time by not needing Tyrion to go into KL, so perhaps it would have been a wash in terms of time.

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6 minutes ago, Capo Ferro said:

Eh, maybe there's a fast current.  Didn't see eddies at the river's edge or anything around the rock but whatever.

Going out past the wall on a mission to capture a wight without bringing horses though seems kind of silly.

Yeah, I was pretty surprised at that, too.

My goodness, clearly a dragon or two would have been handy, and made the trip a lot quicker, but they didn't even bother to take HORSES??

i daresay that ranging could take months.

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9 minutes ago, Cron said:

Great points.   Maybe it's all just a result of them having to streamline the story cuz they have limited time in only 7 episodes this season.

But then, they would have saved time by not needing Tyrion to go into KL, so perhaps it would have been a wash in terms of time.

Yeah I think so. The thing is, the streamlined pace, at least in my opinion, hasn't really bothered me until this episode (if anything, I've felt the show has benefited from it). But for Eastwatch, too many moments felt unearned, and too many decisions seemed to come out of nowhere. I actually feel this episode would have benefited massively by being split into two episodes.

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In comparison to the decision of Dany to halt the war, after just destroying most the Lannister army, and the decision to go and capture a wight....

Then this is nothing, as is Arya fast healing last season. 

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Bronn should've died a few times at this point, he's a plot armor

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Well from what we see bronn did most of the swimming and he wasn't wearing any armor throughout the entire battle. I think it's unlikely but it is far from the most unlikely thing we have seen in GOT. This season we have seen arya fight brienne like an anime character,euron and his fleet sneak up on yara's fleet,jaime and his forces take high garden in less then a day and without taking an incredible amount of damage,sam curing grey scale which is supposed to be all but incurable,tarly who is supposed to be an incredibly honorable man go against his liege lord, an army of sixty thousand dothraki I would guess sneak up on jaime's army,Dany not falling of drogon when he fell from the sky,the destruction of the sept of balor or whatever it's called all but ignored, and alot of other things as well that beat this one incident. I doubt anyone would have bothered looking for them. So yes it's unlikely but we have seen things that beat this by alot and that's only this season.

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59 minutes ago, JagLover said:

In comparison to the decision of Dany to halt the war, after just destroying most the Lannister army, and the decision to go and capture a wight....

Then this is nothing, as is Arya fast healing last season. 

Well to be fair the siege of kingslanding will take a while unless she uses her dragons and given that cersei has likely lined the walls of KL and the red keep with ballista's it would be extremly dangerous for them

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, snow is the man said:

Well from what we see bronn did most of the swimming and he wasn't wearing any armor throughout the entire battle. I think it's unlikely but it is far from the most unlikely thing we have seen in GOT. This season we have seen arya fight brienne like an anime character,euron and his fleet sneak up on yara's fleet,jaime and his forces take high garden in less then a day and without taking an incredible amount of damage,sam curing grey scale which is supposed to be all but incurable,tarly who is supposed to be an incredibly honorable man go against his liege lord, an army of sixty thousand dothraki I would guess sneak up on jaime's army,Dany not falling of drogon when he fell from the sky,the destruction of the sept of balor or whatever it's called all but ignored, and alot of other things as well that beat this one incident. I doubt anyone would have bothered looking for them. So yes it's unlikely but we have seen things that beat this by alot and that's only this season.

Wait, what? Randall Tarly was an incredibly honorable man?  Randall Tarly was, in the show and the books, a man who said he'd butcher his own son and tell the world it was a hunting accident unless said son took the black.  Randall Tarly was not honorable he was a profoundly stupid person (but effective military commander) who couldn't see past his own instinctual bigotry and so hated anything that remotely smacked of learning, what he saw as weakness, or anything foreign.  Randall Tarly preferring to die rather than band together with foreigners is one of the most convincing things that's happened on the show.

I've beaten this to death elsewhere but I also thought Arya sparring (and she was *sparring* not fighting) Brienne was also perfectly credible).

As for sneaking up on a fleet -- water is just weird.  Water in fog is frighteningly confusing.  Everything is stealthy except to the extent it's loud and even then it can surprise you.

Jamie's escape maybe stretched credibility but on the other hand rivers aren't swimming pools, they move themselves and move everything in them sometimes deceptively quickly and battles are confusing places and in the end so what if it was silly?  The important thing in the story is not, in my opinion, that plots be unsupported by gods from machines or off screen developments, or convenient elision or slewing of time but that the characters be folks I care about (either care for and want to see prosper or hate and want to see fall) and that the situations they find themselves in be meaningful -- that they help make some sense of our at least draw attention to interesting problems in the human condition.  

Rethinking my previous answer, maybe at this point the least credible thing in the show is Littlefinger.  He seems often to be scheming for scheming's sake.  He's created chaos but it hasn't got him up the ladder any -- he's pretty much made at most lateral moves since the beginning of the show.  He's made the possibility of getting Sansa in bed progressively less likely and it's really hard to make any sense of his current bits of skullduggery.

My vote for most ridiculous thing in Westeros is Littlefinger.

Edited by Capo Ferro

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Yes, amonth the most unlogical things. There are 100k on horses in the area. Tyrion and Dany saw Jamie charge. Bronn and Jamie have no horses. Jamie is the freaking commander. They should have captured him seconds after he emerged from the water.

I really hated it I most say, just seemed extremely bad written.

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I personally think Jaime should have killed Daenerys with that lance and then he should have been eaten by Drogon. Epic Fail on the part of the writers.

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12 hours ago, Cron said:

Look, I love GoT.  So far, my grades for this season are 9, 9, 9, 10 and 8.

But come on, now.

Let's see.  Jaime and Bronn fall into the water near the edge (which seemed to be about 15 feet deep, which was bizarre enough in and of itself), and THEN, wearing full or partial armor, apparently swim so far underwater that no member of Dany's army can find them or capture them, even though it's crystal clear that they are VERY high value enemies??  My goodness, Jaime is the military leader of the forces opposing Dany, and Bronn just shot down Drogon with Dany on his back!!

Sorry, but to me, their miraculous escape without capture may well be the most unrealistic thing I've ever seen on GoT.  The only thing that's close would be Arya's incredible survival and victory over the Waif while holding her guts in with one hand (I guess), but even for that I'm holding out hope that magic was involved.

Can't imagine any magic making sense of how we saw Bronn and Jaime avoid being captured, though.

The assumption would be they have drowned.

It's hard to say what the most unrealistic thing in the show is.  Dragons, the Undead, UnGregor etc.  All very unrealistic.

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34 minutes ago, Capo Ferro said:

Jamie's escape maybe stretched credibility but on the other hand rivers aren't swimming pools, they move themselves and move everything in them sometimes deceptively quickly and battles are confusing places and in the end so what if it was silly?  The important thing in the story is not, in my opinion, that plots be unsupported by gods from machines or off screen developments, or convenient elision or slewing of time but that the characters be folks I care about (either care for and want to see prosper or hate and want to see fall) and that the situations they find themselves in be meaningful -- that they help make some sense of our at least draw attention to interesting problems in the human condition.  

I like your way of looking at it. This is exactly how I see things. Yes, there are some moments when things happen that leave you scratching your head a bit, but if you learn to accept what happens to be happening for a meaningful reason, you can let yourself enjoy the show a lot more, rather than getting caught up in minor details.

Personally, I had hoped that Jaime would end up captured by Daenerys and we would see a scene where he was locked up and Tyrion freed him, so long as he was able to come to some kind of deal with Cersei for Daenerys' benefit. Instead, we got what we go; Jaime fleeing and getting back to Cersei, then meeting up with Tyrion, to pass on an armistice message to Cersei. In a roundabout way, I got what I hoped for.

The problem if Daenerys had captured Jaime and then somehow being let free, people would have been questioning why she didn't kill Jaime - the man who killed her father - or why she didn't intend to keep him locked up for good? And for the story, having Jaime either dead or locked up for good would be a lot more pointless than the idea that he washed up on the side of the river that he did and didn't drown despite being dressed in full armour is stupid.

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Nope, the most unrealistic thing in the show would be if Tyene survived. :P 

no, seriously, that was Arya's stab wound. They can't top that. 

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34 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

The assumption would be they have drowned.

It's hard to say what the most unrealistic thing in the show is.  Dragons, the Undead, UnGregor etc.  All very unrealistic.

I have never understood this argument. The things you list - dragons, the undead etc - are fantasy elements, which are to be expected in a fantasy show, and thus the audience must be willing to suspend disbelief and accept the, as real. Also falling into this category are the various magics like warging, the unburnt Daenerys and so on.

Things like Jaime and Bronn surviving are logistical issues entirely separate from fantasy elements. It is not inconsistent to accept the fantasy elements while still criticising things like this for being unrealistic. Just because it's fantasy doesn't mean the show should forget logic and realism.

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1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Things like Jaime and Bronn surviving are logistical issues entirely separate from fantasy elements. It is not inconsistent to accept the fantasy elements while still criticising things like this for being unrealistic. Just because it's fantasy doesn't mean the show should forget logic and realism.

In any story you read in a book or watch in a TV series, there will be, at some point, a moment that is illogical, where a character will make a lucky escape or will pull off something that we know would not happen in real life, or magically appear somewhere far from where they were originally at in the space of no time at all.

I have seen scenes in programmes as 'real' as Breaking Bad where things happens that make you question logic and realism. That is a part and parcel of fiction. Just as we have to suspend our disbelief when it comes to Dragons and the Others, we have to equally suspend our disbelief that, every now and again, a character will live when they should have died, wash up on shore when they should have drowned or be in Dragonstone one scene and at the Wall the next.

If we can accept Dragons as part of this story, I am sure we can accept logistical errors, because they come in every single work of fiction that has ever been created. Logistical errors are as much a part of fiction as words are.

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1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I have never understood this argument. The things you list - dragons, the undead etc - are fantasy elements, which are to be expected in a fantasy show, and thus the audience must be willing to suspend disbelief and accept the, as real. Also falling into this category are the various magics like warging, the unburnt Daenerys and so on.

Things like Jaime and Bronn surviving are logistical issues entirely separate from fantasy elements. It is not inconsistent to accept the fantasy elements while still criticising things like this for being unrealistic. Just because it's fantasy doesn't mean the show should forget logic and realism.

Yes, it's a fantasy show.  And like action movies etc. it means that the normal rules to life don't apply.  Books and show there are loads of examples of people doing extraordinary things that in real life would be highly unlikely.

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