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Is Jaime and Bronn NOT Being Captured the Most Unrealistic Thing in the Entire Show??

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This isn't the most unrealistic in my opinion.  So they are in the water, Dany turns and finishes removing the bolt, flies away to continue the attack. Remember, Jaime says she burned a thousand wagons...the portion of the fight we saw up to when Bronn and Jaime jumped into the water she had burned less than 40.  In order to burn that many wagons she would have had to travel a great distance after that.  They could have come up for air even a couple minutes after jumping in and she could have been gone.  Yes, they were much farther down river, but they could have (with some difficulty) swam with the current.  It would have been difficult in plate obviously, thus the spitting up water and being out of breath and tired.

Unless Jean-Luc was in command, Greyjoy fleet time-warping was far more unbelievable than that.  Make it so (unrealistic?)!

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7 hours ago, Mr Smith said:

Yeah I think so. The thing is, the streamlined pace, at least in my opinion, hasn't really bothered me until this episode (if anything, I've felt the show has benefited from it). But for Eastwatch, too many moments felt unearned, and too many decisions seemed to come out of nowhere. I actually feel this episode would have benefited massively by being split into two episodes.

Agreed.  But of course they are under big time and budget constraints.  That's the price we pay for a season packed with grand epic battles and CGI and such.

Oh, well, I still gave Eastwatch an "8," and am enjoying this  season a lot.

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Agree with most of what's been said here and for me, too, the Jaime/Bronn escape is probably the most ludicrous.

I also felt the Arya/Brienne fight was extremely weird. It wasn't so glaring, because it was well shot and they had Arya move really well, but she is never going to parry a single full swing of the broadsword by Brienne with Needle.

Oh well, we knew there were going to be couple of scenes that makes us shake our head. The Jaime/Bronn escape just feels like a big cop-out on what could have been a very interesting plot development.

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2 hours ago, Ser Gareth said:

The assumption would be they have drowned.

It's hard to say what the most unrealistic thing in the show is.  Dragons, the Undead, UnGregor etc.  All very unrealistic.

In order to assume jaime and Bronn drowned, they would have to swim that entire distance under water without coming up for air (a distance we got a feel for when they emerged at the beginning of Episode 705), in armor, no less.  In sum...no way. No. Way.

Also, there was absolutely no assumption made that Jaime and Bronn were dead.  Indeed, we very soon see, in the same episode (705), Tyrion planning to go into King's Landing to meet with...Jaime Lannister.   There is no indication at all that any assumption was ever made that Jaime and Bronn were dead, and there is no indication at any time that anyone is surprised to discover they are alive.

, Regarding your final comments (about dragons, et cetera), I would say we are watching a story that has internal rules, and it is violation of those internal rules that I was referring to as being "unrealistic."  Jaime Lannister can't swim a quarter mile underwater wearing armor without drowning, period, and that is true even in the "universe" which has dragons and undead, et cetera.  Same for Bronn.  The only explanation in that "universe" that could explain it would BE magic, in fact, but we have NO reason to believe that Jaime and Bronn either had or used any magic at all to do what they did.  Internal rules were simply trampled and ignored, in my opinion.

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The most unrealistic thing in the GoT still is, imo, Battle of the Bastards. How the f*ck is it possible to shoot people and pile their bodies 10 metres high to create wall with which you entrap your enemy. 

Was it up to me, I would not only fire the writers at the mention of such idea (let alone implementing it) but also make sure they will never work again in the industry. Ever.

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40 minutes ago, DarkBastard said:

This isn't the most unrealistic in my opinion.  So they are in the water, Dany turns and finishes removing the bolt, flies away to continue the attack. Remember, Jaime says she burned a thousand wagons...the portion of the fight we saw up to when Bronn and Jaime jumped into the water she had burned less than 40.  In order to burn that many wagons she would have had to travel a great distance after that.  They could have come up for air even a couple minutes after jumping in and she could have been gone.  Yes, they were much farther down river, but they could have (with some difficulty) swam with the current.  It would have been difficult in plate obviously, thus the spitting up water and being out of breath and tired.

Unless Jean-Luc was in command, Greyjoy fleet time-warping was far more unbelievable than that.  Make it so (unrealistic?)!

But...Tyrion was right there, and saw it all.  it is inconceivable to me that he would not hurry over and tell soldiers to pull Bronn and Jaime out while watching for them to resurface for even a breath of air.  Tyrion clearly would nave done so both b/c of his concern that Bronn and Jaime might drown, and for their value as captives (also removing them from the war, especially Cersei's top military commander, Jaime)

Also...I think you're greatly underestimating what it would be like to try to swim in armor.  Here, this is how it would actually go:  They would drown. Period.  (Bronn might have SOME chance, cuz he tends to wear lighter protection for mobility, heavy leather and such, but Jaime...no way)

But hey, I loved your Star Trek references.  I'm a huge fan (in fact, I'm a bigger fan of sci-fi in general than fantasy fiction,although I do love fantasy fiction, and the two genres have merged so much that they are now often indistinguishable.  In fact, an argument can be made that GoT itself IS sci-fi, with all the "magic" actually being based in super advanced technology developed by the Valyrians, who were then wiped out by the Doom, at which time the knowledge of the true nature of what is going on was lost.  As you may know, lots of sci-fi/fantasy is based on such ideas, most notably, in recent years, Robert Jordan's "Wheel of Time" series, which is also fantastic, if you haven't read it. VERY similar stuff. The setting is seemingly magical fantasy fiction, but actually, if you pay close attention, I believe it's crystal clear that they are living in a time after the fall of a civilization that had super advanced technology, and the people now using it as "magic" don't really remotely understand it, especially when the story begins)

Anyway, yeah, you're right about the time warping in GoT.   Lots of people on these boards have commented for years about "teleporting" by Varys and LF in particular, and the "jet-packing" around by various characters, but I think over the last season or two it's really gotten out of control, with realistic continuity thrown completely out the window.  In addition to what you mentioned, how long would it take Jon and his crew to sail up to Eastwatch, march on foot into the north (they don't even have horses!), grab a wight and return?  Weeks, at least, and quite possibly (probably?) months, but I'm confident that it is NOT going to play out that way in "show-time.".

 

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26 minutes ago, plastic throne said:

The most unrealistic thing in the GoT still is, imo, Battle of the Bastards. How the f*ck is it possible to shoot people and pile their bodies 10 metres high to create wall with which you entrap your enemy. 

Was it up to me, I would not only fire the writers at the mention of such idea (let alone implementing it) but also make sure they will never work again in the industry. Ever.

Yeah, Battle of the Bastards was fun to watch, but lacking in realism, no doubt.

The fact that Jon survived is just mind-bending.  Can't be rationally processed.  If it was real, he would have been dead a hundred times over, maybe 1,000 times over.

But hey, I've seen theories that he has "magical luck."  Maybe that will be eventually revealed...

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Speaking of egregious moments that insult the intelligence, you guys forgot a major one and my first realization that the show was going to get a lot worse.

When Yara originally tried to rescue Theon from the Boltons. She has him in her grasp and then her and her whole force of Ironborn raiders tuck tail and run because of something Ramsay does. What does Ramsay do, you say? What does he do that would frighten the Ironborn? He starts to unlock a single dog cage. Yup.

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2 hours ago, DarkBastard said:

This isn't the most unrealistic in my opinion.  So they are in the water, Dany turns and finishes removing the bolt, flies away to continue the attack.

It's quite possible that Daenerys didn't know it was Jaime who was charging at her. Tyrion obviously recognized him, but I don't think Dany has ever seen Jaime. The armor and the golden hand might have been hard to see in the split second she turned towards the horseman charging at her, and then Drogon shot flames at him. For all she knew the rider was burnt along with the horse and flew away.

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1 minute ago, Apoplexy said:

It's quite possible that Daenerys didn't know it was Jaime who was charging at her. Tyrion obviously recognized him, but I don't think Dany has ever seen Jaime. The armor and the golden hand might have been hard to see in the split second she turned towards the horseman charging at her, and then Drogon shot flames at him. For all she knew the rider was burnt along with the horse and flew away.

There were several Dothrak warriors witnessing the charge along with Tyrion though.

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7 minutes ago, Eddard Scissorhands said:

There were several Dothrak warriors witnessing the charge along with Tyrion though.

They were far away and the Dothraki probably didn't know it was Jaime either. And maybe it was difficult to judge what exactly happened with all the smoke.

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Posted (edited)

13 hours ago, Lucius Lovejoy said:

Arya and the waif is by far the most egregious stunt the show has ever pulled, but this is a close second.  It makes stuff like Meera dragging Bran singlehandedly through the land of always winter, nobody having any complaints about Cersei blowing up the sept, and Euron's navy going undetected from KL past dragonstone halfway across the continent seem reasonable.  Hell, even Sansa's decision to marry Ramsay seems more logical than Bronn's phelpsian swim.

You and I usually disagree on a lot of things in the general book forum.   I'm a Dany-fan and a Jon-hater.  But I very much agree with you on this particular opinion of yours.  Logic no longer applies apparently. 

How muscular do you think Meera's legs are by now? 

Edited by Widowmaker 811

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I wouldn't say the most unrealistic thing- Arya's arc last year was probably worse.  That being said, I simply do not understand why Jaime wasn't captured from a narrative perspective.  Instead of having Davos smuggle Tyrion into King's Landing, why wouldn't you just have Jaime be captured, have the same EXACT conversation with Tyrion while captured, and then have Davos and Jaime go back to King's Landing to return Jaime, where Davos can pick up Gendry anyway?  That's what really bothered me about this more than anything.

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25 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

You and I usually disagree on a lot of things in the general book forum.   I'm a Dany-fan and a Jon-hater.  But I very much agree with you on this particular opinion of yours.  Logic no longer applies apparently. 

How muscular do you think Meera's legs are by now? 

We usually do don't we?  Haha.  At least we both agree Meera should probably be able to out-squat the mountain by now.

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19 hours ago, Cron said:

 

Sorry, but to me, their miraculous escape without capture may well be the most unrealistic thing I've ever seen on GoT.  

Yes. Absolutely ridiculous. And unecessary. I've let a lot of silliness go and continued with the show but this kind of writing is just B movie stuff. 

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2 hours ago, Apoplexy said:

They were far away and the Dothraki probably didn't know it was Jaime either. And maybe it was difficult to judge what exactly happened with all the smoke.

Possible but sounds like a lazy bunch to me then. Nobody wants to go after their queen's assailant? 

Maybe a scene were soldiers report they have searched the area and assume the attackers drowned would have clarified some things. But I doubt it.

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5 minutes ago, Eddard Scissorhands said:

They were far away and the Dothraki probably didn't know it was Jaime either

Tyrion knew. First, they both should have drowned. Then they somehow swam in armor. And the opposing force didn't even search for them. Tyrion, being the intelligent hand that he is should have made sure the land was searched a mile around given the value of a captured Jaime. Ah well. They just wanted a cliffhanger and didn't care if it made sense. 

 

I guess Jaime and Bron just casually strolled back to Kings Landing without being seen.  So lucky, these two. 

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13 hours ago, Cron said:

Well, here's the thing.  I think Jaime and Bronn would have resurfaced, gasping for air and half-drowned, right where they went into the water, IF they were even able to surface on their own at all (without being dragged out) cuz of the weight of their armor and/or gear.

And Tyrion clearly saw everything that happened.  I think he would have hurried over and told soldiers to pull Bronn and Jaime out, if only to save their lives, at which time they would have been captured as high value enemies.

I hear you about Arya being able to block a swing or two by Brienne, though.  I thought that fight was mostly realistic and believable, but yeah, there were a couple of parries that just made me go "Uh, no."  Reminded me a lot of Peter Pan and Captain Hook fighting  HARR!!

I like all you had to say-

Regarding Jamie and Bronn- how did they  fall in one part of a river and surface 800 yards downstream.

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25 minutes ago, Wsc44 said:

Tyrion knew. First, they both should have drowned. Then they somehow swam in armor. And the opposing force didn't even search for them. Tyrion, being the intelligent hand that he is should have made sure the land was searched a mile around given the value of a captured Jaime. Ah well. They just wanted a cliffhanger and didn't care if it made sense. 

 

I guess Jaime and Bron just casually strolled back to Kings Landing without being seen.  So lucky, these two. 

Tyrion probably didn't want to capture his brother.

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1 hour ago, Tagganaro said:

I wouldn't say the most unrealistic thing- Arya's arc last year was probably worse.  That being said, I simply do not understand why Jaime wasn't captured from a narrative perspective.  Instead of having Davos smuggle Tyrion into King's Landing, why wouldn't you just have Jaime be captured, have the same EXACT conversation with Tyrion while captured, and then have Davos and Jaime go back to King's Landing to return Jaime, where Davos can pick up Gendry anyway?  That's what really bothered me about this more than anything.

Do you think that Jaime would have bent the knee or be burned along with the Tarleys?

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