TheStrangerOne Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Should not the Dothraki have taken the Lannister prisoner as slave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 1 hour ago, TheStrangerOne said: Should not the Dothraki have taken the Lannister prisoner as slave? Dany outlawed slavery. Granted, forcing enemy troops to fight for her or be burned by Drogon isn't that much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 4 hours ago, Lurid Jester said: Dany outlawed slavery. Granted, forcing enemy troops to fight for her or be burned by Drogon isn't that much different. It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illiterati Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, snow is the man said: It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared Not sure Dany understands the concept of taking the black. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurid Jester Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 5 hours ago, snow is the man said: It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared I didn't think conscription included enemy troops being executed if they didn't fight for you. Could be wrong though. The idea of making them take the black is kind of funny. "Jon, I'm not supporting your war against these undead you speak of, but I'll send every army I defeat your way." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBastard Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 The "breaker of chains", remember? She even said she wouldn't put someone in chains. She is already fighting the "foreign invader who will enslave your families" rumors started by Cersei, why would she validate them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AryaNymeriaVisenya Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 ^^ But she'll roast them alive. A man has a chance of getting out of chains. This won't help her rep at all. Conscription is men being called up to fight for their country, not being threatened into fighting for the enemy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balerion the one eared cat Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 5 hours ago, snow is the man said: It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared Especially since she's supposedly on board with Jon and the whole "Night King coming to kill us all, we desperately need men to man the Wall". But, whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 3 minutes ago, DarkBastard said: The "breaker of chains", remember? She even said she wouldn't put someone in chains. She is already fighting the "foreign invader who will enslave your families" rumors started by Cersei, why would she validate them? She should then amend to "breaker of chains - she prefers the smell of barbecue". Plus she did not have to put anyone in chains (or kill) until she let her inner Targ mouth off with "bend the knee or die". She should have rather channeled Henri V. Rather proclaim it, Westmorland, through my host, That he which hath no stomach to this fight, Let him depart; his passport shall be made, And crowns for convoy put into his purse; We would not die in that man's company That fears his fellowship to die with us. Giving choice between joining victorious army or be murdered is tantamount to slavery. And would be generally frowned upon in the medieval times. Heck, compared to Tarly and Cersei Danny had so much carrot to offer... but she went by default to the Targ stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Yes, then she should have taken a cut of the proceeds when they were sold. It would bring her more in line with the book character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBastard Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said: She should then amend to "breaker of chains - she prefers the smell of barbecue". Plus she did not have to put anyone in chains (or kill) until she let her inner Targ mouth off with "bend the knee or die". She should have rather channeled Henri V. Rather proclaim it, Westmorland, through my host, That he which hath no stomach to this fight, Let him depart; his passport shall be made, And crowns for convoy put into his purse; We would not die in that man's company That fears his fellowship to die with us. Giving choice between joining victorious army or be murdered is tantamount to slavery. And would be generally frowned upon in the medieval times. Heck, compared to Tarly and Cersei Danny had so much carrot to offer... but she went by default to the Targ stick. "Smeller of barbecue" - LMAO!!! You really had me laughing there! However, people really need to stop comparing this world of FANTASY to our own middle/dark ages. This is not some other form of Europe. In another thread someone was even saying the annulment of Rhaegar and Elia would have to follow the catholic rules...what the shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runaway Penguin Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Westeros is a feudal system, based on that. Hence comparisons to Earth are eminently valid - not in details of law, but overall customs of war tended to be similar whether in Europe, in Middle East or in India (with the added twist of some regions in some eras using slavery - but then by Dany's approach the slaves also had a choice, become slaves or die). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkBastard Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Details of law are what we are discussing: Quote Giving choice between joining victorious army or be murdered is tantamount to slavery. And would be generally frowned upon in the medieval times. If he had said "frowned upon in Westeros" I would agree...but what was acceptable in OUR medieval history has little to do with what is acceptable in Westeros, based on Westerosi law and tradition. This work of fiction is not supposed to be lined up with our history. Yes, some parallels exist, and some events in our history influenced some of the story lines GRRM employed...but he has been clear in stating this is its own world, not supplicant to ours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Gareth Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 5 hours ago, snow is the man said: It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared The funny thing is that taking the black is akin to slavery. I always found that ironic with the whole Eddard and Jorah situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 It's clearly based enough upon our own history that, absent specific, contradictory examples from Westeros, filling the gaps with Earth's version is perfectly valid. Your position's getting quite close to "nothing has to make sense 'cause it's fantasy". Of course making sense within the framework of the story trumps historical examples every time when they clash, but that does not invalidate historical examples as a starting point for discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elder brother jonothor dar Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 She clarly needed the extra couple of hundred troops of questionable loyalty in her camp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess_of_Sunspear Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 10 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said: The funny thing is that taking the black is akin to slavery. I always found that ironic with the whole Eddard and Jorah situation. This. I don't think Black Brothers could suddenly decide not to live in freezing wastelands and fight wildlings. It was essentially an equivalent to Siberian Gulags, but with an option to join voluntarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkel Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 Taking the Black is a voluntary alternative sometimes offered instead of the punishment of certain crimes, as well as an option occasionally taken by nobles or free men for a variety of reasons. It is only similar to Dany's choice when the punishment otherwise merited is death. But yes, "join me, or take the black" and "join or die" is somewhat similar, except one is a genuine choice whereas the other isn't, and one does some good while the other doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snow is the man Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 50 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said: I didn't think conscription included enemy troops being executed if they didn't fight for you. Could be wrong though. The idea of making them take the black is kind of funny. "Jon, I'm not supporting your war against these undead you speak of, but I'll send every army I defeat your way." well it would still be a help. These are well trained and well equipped soldiers after all. I mean they may have lost but they stood firm in the face of a bloody dragon. Just paint their armor black and give them a black cloak and their good to go. Conscription was people being forced to serve in a military and if your being forced into something it means your not being given a choice though most of the time the penalty was prison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted August 15, 2017 Share Posted August 15, 2017 I don't think she conscripted the men. I think when she said join me she was speaking of supporting her claim not literally joining her army. I could be wrong though as they don't always make these things clear on the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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