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Lannister's Bending the Knee


TheStrangerOne

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4 hours ago, Lurid Jester said:

Dany outlawed slavery. 

Granted, forcing enemy troops to fight for her or be burned by Drogon isn't that much different. 

 

It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared

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3 minutes ago, snow is the man said:

It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared

Not sure Dany understands the concept of taking the black.

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5 hours ago, snow is the man said:

It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared

I didn't think conscription included enemy troops being executed if they didn't fight for you.  Could be wrong though. 

The idea of making them take the black is kind of funny.  

"Jon, I'm not supporting your war against these undead you speak of, but I'll send every army I defeat your way."

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5 hours ago, snow is the man said:

It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared

Especially since she's supposedly on board with Jon and the whole "Night King coming to kill us all, we desperately need men to man the Wall". But, whatever

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3 minutes ago, DarkBastard said:

The "breaker of chains", remember?  She even said she wouldn't put someone in chains.  She is already fighting the "foreign invader who will enslave your families" rumors started by Cersei, why would she validate them?

She should then amend to "breaker of chains - she prefers the smell of barbecue". Plus she did not have to put anyone in chains (or kill) until she let her inner Targ mouth off with "bend the knee or die". She should have rather channeled Henri V.

 

Rather proclaim it, Westmorland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.

 

Giving choice between joining victorious army or be murdered is tantamount to slavery. And would be generally frowned upon in the medieval times. Heck, compared to Tarly and Cersei Danny had so much carrot to offer... but she went by default to the Targ stick.

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4 minutes ago, Runaway Penguin said:

She should then amend to "breaker of chains - she prefers the smell of barbecue". Plus she did not have to put anyone in chains (or kill) until she let her inner Targ mouth off with "bend the knee or die". She should have rather channeled Henri V.

 

Rather proclaim it, Westmorland, through my host,
That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made,
And crowns for convoy put into his purse;
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us.

 

Giving choice between joining victorious army or be murdered is tantamount to slavery. And would be generally frowned upon in the medieval times. Heck, compared to Tarly and Cersei Danny had so much carrot to offer... but she went by default to the Targ stick.

"Smeller of barbecue" - LMAO!!!  You really had me laughing there!

However, people really need to stop comparing this world of FANTASY to our own middle/dark ages.  This is not some other form of Europe.  In another thread someone was even saying the annulment of Rhaegar and Elia would have to follow the catholic rules...what the shit!

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Westeros is a feudal system, based on that.  Hence comparisons to Earth are eminently valid - not in details of law,  but overall customs of war tended to be similar whether in Europe, in Middle East or in India (with the added twist of some regions in some eras using slavery - but then by Dany's approach the slaves also had a choice, become slaves or die).

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Details of law are what we are discussing:

Quote

Giving choice between joining victorious army or be murdered is tantamount to slavery. And would be generally frowned upon in the medieval times.

If he had said "frowned upon in Westeros" I would agree...but what was acceptable in OUR medieval history has little to do with what is acceptable in Westeros, based on Westerosi law and tradition.

This work of fiction is not supposed to be lined up with our history.  Yes, some parallels exist, and some events in our history influenced some of the story lines GRRM employed...but he has been clear in stating this is its own world, not supplicant to ours.

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5 hours ago, snow is the man said:

It's called conscription. I do think she should have said "join me or take the black". I think we can all agree that if someone isn't scared of dany after they were at that battle they aren't ever gonna be scared

The funny thing is that taking the black is akin to slavery.  I always found that ironic with the whole Eddard and Jorah situation.

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It's clearly based enough upon our own history that, absent specific, contradictory examples from Westeros, filling the gaps with Earth's version is perfectly valid.

Your position's getting quite close to "nothing has to make sense 'cause it's fantasy". Of course making sense within the framework of the story trumps historical examples every time when they clash, but that does not invalidate historical examples as a starting point for discussion.

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10 minutes ago, Ser Gareth said:

The funny thing is that taking the black is akin to slavery.  I always found that ironic with the whole Eddard and Jorah situation.

This. I don't think Black Brothers could suddenly decide not to live in freezing wastelands and fight wildlings. It was essentially an equivalent to Siberian Gulags, but with an option to join voluntarily.

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Taking the Black is a voluntary alternative sometimes offered instead of the punishment of certain crimes, as well as an option occasionally taken by nobles or free men for a variety of reasons.

It is only similar to Dany's choice when the punishment otherwise merited is death. But yes, "join me, or take the black" and "join or die" is somewhat similar, except one is a genuine choice whereas the other isn't, and one does some good while the other doesn't.

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50 minutes ago, Lurid Jester said:

I didn't think conscription included enemy troops being executed if they didn't fight for you.  Could be wrong though. 

The idea of making them take the black is kind of funny.  

"Jon, I'm not supporting your war against these undead you speak of, but I'll send every army I defeat your way."

well it would still be a help. These are well trained and well equipped soldiers after all. I mean they may have lost but they stood firm in the face of a bloody dragon. Just paint their armor black and give them a black cloak and their good to go. Conscription was people being forced to serve in a military and if your being forced into something it means your not being given a choice though most of the time the penalty was prison

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