Jump to content

Benjen = Night's King


greywindsrage

Recommended Posts

48 minutes ago, King Merrett I Frey said:

Now you're being unfair. Craster gives his sons to the Others out of a long established ritual but you pose that he can't communicate somehow with them but he might have a son in hiding. You're just quashing my arguments in the most crude manner. :(

You mistook the son in hiding. What I tried to say was that I speculate that at the time of Jafer and Othor's death Craster had a son born to him and that he took it out to give it to the Others. So, what happened to that son would be the same as what happened to all the other sons, whatever that may be.

On the communication: if the ritual that Varys underwent has anything to do with the Others, then communication is possible, but seems to require sorcery. Is Craster a sorcerer? And if sorcery is not required and can just chit-chat with them, can Craster understand the language of the Others (they seem to have some kind of language)? Can he speak it? We don't know, nor can we be certain that the voice in the blue flames that Varys heard were Others.

I'd love for Craster to be able to communicate with the Others though. And I like the idea that there's a human informer for the Others who relates them the movements and whereabout of the rangers. There is evidence that the Others alter their tactics depending on numbers of the target and suspected knowledge, and them having an informer on whereabouts, numbers and such is quite a tempting idea. I'm not opposed to it :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/17/2017 at 3:29 AM, LynnS said:

That's very interesting and a strong analysis in favor of Benjen bacon. The raven collar does suggest that the bird is protecting Mormont's neck and it also suggests that the bird knows more about Craster than is suspected.  So in that sense, Uncle Benjen may still be protecting his Lord Commander and favors the notion that Benjen could skinchange ravens and survives as Mormont's Raven.  The irony is that Mormont's is offering Craster protection; when it is actually Mormont who needs protection from Craster.  I can well believe that Craster engages in every form of abomination.

The notion that wights disembowel their victims struck another chord because of a discussion at TLH about Orell's eagle and whether Melisandre killed the bird or the bird ran into a fire ward at the Wall.

 

@Voice

SweetSunray's observations concerning the manner in which wights kill lends strength to the argument that Melisandre is a wight and was responsible for killing Orell's eagle.;)

http://thelasthearth.com/thread/1556/wall-melisandre-orells-eagle

 

 

Cool. Mel is definitely a fire wight. That's pretty much canon as far as I'm concerned. And Orell's eagle definitely flew quite close to a barrier that, we know, blocks skinchangers and little/nothing else.

Fire wights cannot and do not cause animals to burst into flame. :commie:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Voice said:

 

Cool. Mel is definitely a fire wight. That's pretty much canon as far as I'm concerned. And Orell's eagle definitely flew quite close to a barrier that, we know, blocks skinchangers and little/nothing else.

Fire wights cannot and do not cause animals to burst into flame. :commie:

I'm still not entirely persuaded that the Wall blocks skinchangers with fire.  Mel is able to cross the Wall without consequence and Coldhands can't cross because he is dead although he may also be a skinchanger which would add another dimension to skillset of the 'dead'.

There is a big difference between Mel and Thoros and perhaps Moqorro and Mel and I'm not sure that Mel has completed her transformation.  I'm guessing that her ability to birth shadows is female specific and I'm guessing that Moqorro has a different set of shadow-binding skills.  Mel has to 'drink down the fire' to maintain herself.  I'm also guessing this has something to do with the 'ruby' at her throat.

Mel, Moqorro, Benerro, Thoros, Beric and Lady Stoneheart would be equivalent to the White Walkers rather than the ice zombies.  And yet there doesn't appear to be a fire zombie equivalent.

The question of why Thoros has give the kiss of fire so many times without results with the exception of Beric is interesting.  I'm guessing again that this has something to do with the 'Fiery Hand' of R'hllor.

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VII

Benerro's high voice carried well. Tall and thin, he had a drawn face and skin white as milk. Flames had been tattooed across his cheeks and chin and shaven head to make a bright red mask that crackled about his eyes and coiled down and around his lipless mouth. "Is that a slave tattoo?" asked Tyrion.

The knight nodded. "The red temple buys them as children and makes them priests or temple prostitutes or warriors. Look there." He pointed at the steps, where a line of men in ornate armor and orange cloaks stood before the temple's doors, clasping spears with points like writhing flames. "The Fiery Hand. The Lord of Light's sacred soldiers, defenders of the temple."

Fire knights. "And how many fingers does this hand have, pray?"

 

Is it possible that Melisandre was originally a slave prostitute who later became a priestess?
 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover's hand. Strange voices called to her from days long past. "Melony," she heard a woman cry. A man's voice called, "Lot Seven." She was weeping, and her tears were flame. And still she drank it in.

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

The red priestess closed her eyes and said a prayer, then opened them once more to face the hearthfire. One more time. She had to be certain. Many a priest and priestess before her had been brought down by false visions, by seeing what they wished to see instead of what the Lord of Light had sent. Stannis was marching south into peril, the king who carried the fate of the world upon his shoulders, Azor Ahai reborn. Surely R'hllor would vouchsafe her a glimpse of what awaited him. Show me Stannis, Lord, she prayed. Show me your king, your instrument.

Visions danced before her, gold and scarlet, flickering, forming and melting and dissolving into one another, shapes strange and terrifying and seductive. She saw the eyeless faces again, staring out at her from sockets weeping blood. Then the towers by the sea, crumbling as the dark tide came sweeping over them, rising from the depths. Shadows in the shape of skulls, skulls that turned to mist, bodies locked together in lust, writhing and rolling and clawing. Through curtains of fire great winged shadows wheeled against a hard blue sky.

 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VII

"One thousand. Never more, and never less. A new flame is kindled for every one that gutters out."

Benerro jabbed a finger at the moon, made a fist, spread his hands wide. When his voice rose in a crescendo, flames leapt from his fingers with a sudden whoosh and made the crowd gasp. The priest could trace fiery letters in the air as well. Valyrian glyphs. Tyrion recognized perhaps two in ten; one was Doom, the other Darkness.

 

Does this number 1000 represent the number of slave guards outside the temple or the number of transformed priests/priestesses and warriors?  Is this why Thoros has only resurrected Beric in spite of giving the kiss countless times without success? 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

The best part of each evening was supper. The food was not especially good, but it was plentiful, so that was where the dwarf went next. The galley where he took his meals was a cramped and uncomfortable space, with a ceiling so low that the taller passengers were always in danger of cracking their heads, a hazard the strapping slave soldiers of the Fiery Hand seemed particularly prone to. As much as Tyrion enjoyed sniggering at that, he had come to prefer taking his meals alone. Sitting at a crowded table with men who did not share a common language with you, listening to them talk and jape whilst understanding none of it, had quickly grown wearisome. Particularly since he always found himself wondering if the japes and laughter were directed at him.

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VIII

Soon they began to take their meals together. Some nights it was just the two of them; at other meals they crowded in with Moqorro's guards. The fingers, Tyrion called them; they were men of the Fiery Hand, after all, and there were five of them. Penny laughed at that, a sweet sound, though not one that he heard often. Her wound was too fresh, her grief too deep.

 

Moqorro's guard seem particularly human.  They take meals with the rest of the crew.  So perhaps there is nothing special about them other than being slave warriors waiting for transformation.

Thoros would fit the category of priest/warrior. Mel is perhaps a priestess/prostitute. Why can only 1000 exist at one time?  I'm guessing this number doesn't include slave guards and temple prostitutes since this number must be greater than 1000.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...