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phishnutz

Whose left to Lead?

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Of all the great tacticians, generals and leaders, who is still around to lead Westeros against the army of the undead?

For Generals we've lost Tarly, Tywin, Ned and Rob. The Blackfish is gone. I cant think of anybody from the Reach, Dorne, or the Vale ever referred to as a military genius.

For Naval Commander's we have lost Stannis.

We know Jon and Dany will most likely be in charge, but both lack military experience and talent. Dany has dragons and a strong army, but no real strategy. Jon may be a great leader of Men, but that doesn't translate to leading out in the field of battle.

Jaime, seems more like a perfect soldier who can execute a good plan, but not the brains of the operation.

We can argue that Euron can command the sea, but would anyone trust him to not conquer any open land while the battle is raging on?

To me it seems their is an awful big talent drought. With no true General waiting to step up.

Am I missing someone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

@phishnutz you make a good point, however I believe the show expects us to think that Jon, Jorah, Greyworm, and maybe even Davos and Jaime are amazing military strategists.  They haven't given us any reason to believe that, but it hasn't stopped them before.  As Jon is fond of saying a billion times "I'm the only one who has fought the army of the dead" so I suppose if he says it enough D&D will expect us to think he is an expert when really he fought once and got his ass handed to him (but survived).  Point is I don't believe they will be looking to bring any outside help.  Daario Naharis is probably the best general left, and he is currently in Essos unlikely to return to watch Jon Snow steal his girl.

Edited by Lucius Lovejoy
Daario

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Lord Royce is actually very competent, iirc, but it has been so long since I read them.

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It's not like the Others are going to be using strategy to defeat the humans though, its just brute force. Pinch points and positions that are easy to defend are the key. 

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Lord Royce has some clout as a military tactioner and fighter.  He bested Ned and Ser Rodrik at Winterfell when they stayed there on the way to the Wall where his son joined the NW. 

But Jon is definitely a candidate for taking lead in the military campaigns against the WW.  He has fought in a number of battles now and is at least experienced enough. 

Greyworm leads the Unsullied Army and they have fought in battles and won also.  He would be considered a general in my eyes.

The Hound definitely is battle tested and proven.  He could serve as a general as well...

 

Just a few names to throw out there...

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Thanks, for the replies. I didn't have any recollection of Lord Royce.  IT would be good having a Vale leader since, I believe the Vale troops are the most fresh and in tact units in the realm.

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Posted (edited)

5 hours ago, phishnutz said:

Thanks, for the replies. I didn't have any recollection of Lord Royce.  IT would be good having a Vale leader since, I believe the Vale troops are the most fresh and in tact units in the realm.

They definitely seem to have it together more than any other active army right now.  Getting lord Royce's support will be important once LF bites the dust...

Edited by Jaehaerys Stark

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On 8/15/2017 at 8:04 PM, Error-504 said:

It's not like the Others are going to be using strategy to defeat the humans though, its just brute force. Pinch points and positions that are easy to defend are the key. 

Also they probably aren't going to be using ships so we won't need to worry about who the great naval commanders are. 

In the final battle, ships are just going to be transports to the front.  

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On 8/15/2017 at 7:04 PM, Error-504 said:

It's not like the Others are going to be using strategy to defeat the humans though, its just brute force. Pinch points and positions that are easy to defend are the key. 

but given how vertically mobile the dead are, climbing walls and ceiling like freaking spiderman on speed, choke points make actually work for the dead rather than against them.

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well, there are two types of general, the warlord and the commander. the warlords leads the men, usually from the front lines, fighting along side them, i.e. robert baratheon, drogo. the commander issues orders, leading from the rear, where he can see the battlefield and tell the army as a whole how to move in the battle, i.e. stannis, tywin.

i think that jon might be more of a warlord type, in the middle of the battle alongside his men, earning their trust by being in middle of the fray with them, rather being safely tucked away in the rear. but who would be the commander? tyrion gave it a try and has mixed results, but that may be a case of underestimating how ruthlessly aggressive cersie was.

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Jon ought to be equally as capable as Robb, right? I mean, I presume they had the same education, training, etc. Robb was considered a bit of a genius in these matters. He is also very good with a blade though, and very willing to jump head first into battle.

They could probably use his brains strategizing the way to fight, but keeping him OUT of the fight may prove too difficult. 

Tyrion would be the obvious choice.

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well, was robb a genius? maybe. i think he definitely had a talent for war. if he had a few more years, he could possibly be considered among the great generals of westeros history.

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On 8/15/2017 at 8:51 AM, phishnutz said:

Of all the great tacticians, generals and leaders, who is still around to lead Westeros against the army of the undead?

For Generals we've lost Tarly, Tywin, Ned and Rob. The Blackfish is gone. I cant think of anybody from the Reach, Dorne, or the Vale ever referred to as a military genius.

For Naval Commander's we have lost Stannis.

We know Jon and Dany will most likely be in charge, but both lack military experience and talent. Dany has dragons and a strong army, but no real strategy. Jon may be a great leader of Men, but that doesn't translate to leading out in the field of battle.

Jaime, seems more like a perfect soldier who can execute a good plan, but not the brains of the operation.

We can argue that Euron can command the sea, but would anyone trust him to not conquer any open land while the battle is raging on?

To me it seems their is an awful big talent drought. With no true General waiting to step up.

Am I missing someone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Robb is spelt with 2 Bs not one. Um... But Stannis ah fuck it, this is the show and there hasn't been any complexity or depth since season 4. And I just remembered, Bronze Yohn Royce, Grey Worm (I guess), Victarion (opps nevermind), Jon Connington? Please D&D? I suppose The Greatjon but he is probably dead, Adam Marbrand, Robett Glover, Helman Tallhart, are all battle commanders in the books, 1 got mentioned I thing and never got any screen time (Marbrand), Glover of course is in the show and Tallhart I have no clue. Now that Arya murdered all the Freys we don't have Hosteen or Aenys or any others. we do still have Edmure Tully. And Jaime. Damn most of these guys are backing Jon to (or should be cough, Edmure, cough).

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tyrion has had mixed results. he did well with planning the blackwater, but he underestimated his sister's aggressive, ruthless, policies and nonchalance about the cost in human life, which she could always blame on someone else. his plan to take casterly rock would have beena good one, but cersie was aggressive enough to simply abandon the family seat and instead strike at highgarden, which is something their father wouldnt have done. i would chalk it up to both the gap in his education, as i think tywin likely didnt care enough to school tyrion in military matters, so tyrion had to pick it up on his own from his private reading.

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