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Football: The grind begins


Mexal

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Maybe I'll say this with a bias since I am a Hajduk supporter, but Everton was insanely lucky to get this result. That goal by Sigurdsson was just absolute insane luck, Hajduk had two more clear penalties they didn't get(at the start in 6th minute and when Erceg dribbled past Keane I believe and was blocked but the judge said nothing), and Everton definitely deserved to get at least one player off the pitch, not to mention how Radošević got a yellow card while at two other times Everton players did the same sort of a faul and got off scott free.

Whatever. Good luck to Everton in Europa League, they are the more quality team overall and scored the goals to go through.

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16 hours ago, MisterOJ said:

I'm not sure Group G is easier. I think Spartak is probably a much easier opponent than Monaco. Same for Maribor being easier than Liepzig. Sevilla is probably tougher than Porto, but not by a wide margin.

Sevilla has won 3 Europa League trophies in the last 4 years (beating Liverpool in the finals in 2015/2016 season), and played in Champions League quarterfinals last year, so I'd say they are one hell of a team and that the margin between them and Porto is probably wider than you think.

In non-Champions League football, two Serbian teams made it to Europa League group stages for the first time since Europa League started.

The league champions, Partizan, won 3-0 away (3-0 on aggregate) against Hungarian side Videoton while Crvena Zvezda (you may know them as Red Star) beat Krasnodar 2-1, after losing 3-2 in Russia in the first leg to reach group stages of a European competition after 10 years. It needs to be said that Krasnodar scored their only goal from the penalty spot after what must be the weirdest penalty decision I've seen in quite a while, if not ever.

I don't expect either team to make a splash. Given their current squads, both teams need to get EXTREMELY lucky to advance from group stage.

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26 minutes ago, baxus said:

Sevilla has won 3 Europa League trophies in the last 4 years (beating Liverpool in the finals in 2015/2016 season), and played in Champions League quarterfinals last year, so I'd say they are one hell of a team and that the margin between them and Porto is probably wider than you think.

Sorry to be that guy, but Sevilla only made the Round of 16 last season, when they were knocked out by Leicester.

 

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Europa League Group Stage 2017/18:

Group H: ARSENAL, Bate Borisov, FC Koln, Red Star Belgrade

Group E: Lyon, EVERTON, Atalanta, Apollon

 

Decent draws for both English teams. Can see no reason why they both shouldn't make it into the knockout phase. I do wonder how strong of a team Arsenal will field during the competition, though.

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I think Wenger will look to get out of the group stage and will field strong lineups - maybe a few changes from the best XI but not a reserve side. The first knockout round is only in mid-Feb so EL priority can be reassessed then depending on the club's league position. It's too big a risk now to field second string sides in the EL and pass up the opportunity of another route into the CL given how competitive it has become at the top end of the EPL.

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Nice draw for Arsenal - should be able to win the group with Köln in second. Only the awkward away match in Borisov to worry about.

Not so good for Everton, as Lyon and Atalanta were some of the hardest opponents in their pots. They missed Basaksehir, Vitesse and Slavia Prague who could have made it really interesting in pot 4, but even still - three evenly matched, strong sides is the highlight of the draw.

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2 hours ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Sorry to be that guy, but Sevilla only made the Round of 16 last season, when they were knocked out by Leicester.

 

Three Europa League trophies were kind of the main point of that statement, but you are right about their last year's Champions League campaign. ;) 

32 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

Nice draw for Arsenal - should be able to win the group with Köln in second. Only the awkward away match in Borisov to worry about.

Not so good for Everton, as Lyon and Atalanta were some of the hardest opponents in their pots. They missed Basaksehir, Vitesse and Slavia Prague who could have made it really interesting in pot 4, but even still - three evenly matched, strong sides is the highlight of the draw.

It's great to see that Belgrade is not considered an awkward away match. :cheers: 

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16 minutes ago, baxus said:

Three Europa League trophies were kind of the main point of that statement, but you are right about their last year's Champions League campaign. ;) 

It's great to see that Belgrade is not considered an awkward away match. :cheers: 

Just hope the away matches don't fall in between EPL away matches as we have a few long trips to make.

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1 hour ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Decent draws for both English teams. Can see no reason why they both shouldn't make it into the knockout phase. I do wonder how strong of a team Arsenal will field during the competition, though.

Actually pretty tough for Everton I thought. Lyon is solid and Atalanta is no joke. 

Rumors Oxlaide Chamberlain has turned down 180k a week from Arsenal. Don't think he's worth that big of a contract. 

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11 minutes ago, Mark Antony said:

Actually pretty tough for Everton I thought. Lyon is solid and Atalanta is no joke. 

Rumors Oxlaide Chamberlain has turned down 180k a week from Arsenal. Don't think he's worth that big of a contract. 

Atalanta were the surprise package of last year's Serie A, but do we really believe that one good season grants them a 'tough opposition' tag? I know they lost a couple of key players to AC Milan in Andrea Conti and Franck Kessie and I'm not sure who they have brought in.

The Ox situation confuses me. I really don't see why he seems so determined to leave Arsenal. I'd say, if anything, he owes them. They stuck by him through years of injury and inconsistent form. Second half of last season he hit his stride and became a key member in their squad and now he starts making issues. £180k a week is a lot of money, especially when Harry Kane is on £100K at Tottenham. Looks to me like it is about more than money; he must really want to leave.

Edit: Got Everton and Arsenal mixed up for facing Atalanta. Still think Everton would fancy themselves against Atalanta given the signings they have made.

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25 minutes ago, baxus said:

It's great to see that Belgrade is not considered an awkward away match. :cheers: 

10 years since they last reached the main draw in European Competition, being knocked out by the likes of Chernomorets and Kairat along the way. You'll know much better than I will, but unless there has been a strong improvement there does not seem a strong enough side to capitalise on the intimidating atmosphere.

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11 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

Atalanta were the surprise package of last year's Serie A, but do we really believe that one good season grants them a 'tough opposition' tag? I know they lost a couple of key players to AC Milan in Andrea Conti and Franck Kessie and I'm not sure who they have brought in.

They've brought in Ilicic and de Roon, both downgrades but handy players nonetheless. They still have Papu Gomez - a current Argentine international striker - and Mattia Caldara, one of the brightest defensive prospects around. I'd say they are the most likely of the three to miss out, but are still dangerous. If Everton got to pick their group, I doubt Atalanta would have been near the top of their choices from pot 3.

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1 hour ago, Mark Antony said:

Actually pretty tough for Everton I thought. Lyon is solid and Atalanta is no joke. 

Rumors Oxlaide Chamberlain has turned down 180k a week from Arsenal. Don't think he's worth that big of a contract. 

I hope these rumors are false. I truly do not want to believe Arsenal are that stupid to offer Chamberlain that much money for what amounts to 7 years of mediocrity, no end product and an obsessive desire to fit him into the side at the expense of natural players for those positions. If he does go, I'll be thrilled. Time to call up Reiss Nelson.

That being said, still no idea why Chamberlain hasn't gotten a legitimate run at CM next to Xhaka. He has always looked his best there and Wenger has said repeatedly that's where his future is. Instead of playing someone like Ramsey who thinks he's a CF, play Chamberlain who can be a bit more disciplined and take people on.

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3 minutes ago, Mexal said:

That being said, still no idea why Chamberlain hasn't gotten a legitimate run at CM next to Xhaka. He has always looked his best there and Wenger has said repeatedly that's where his future is. Instead of playing someone like Ramsey who thinks he's a CF, play Chamberlain who can be a bit more disciplined and take people on.

This idea of Chamberlain being a central midfield player has always been weird, to me. I've seen him play there a few times, but have never noticed him being more naturally suited to that role. His best games for Arsenal have come on the wing or wingback.

It seems this notion of Chamberlain being a centre midfielder is something he has come up with himself, despite not truly suiting the role. A bit like Theo Walcott proclaiming he was a centre forward for years, when everyone but him knew he was better on the wing.

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56 minutes ago, Horse of Kent said:

10 years since they last reached the main draw in European Competition, being knocked out by the likes of Chernomorets and Kairat along the way. You'll know much better than I will, but unless there has been a strong improvement there does not seem a strong enough side to capitalise on the intimidating atmosphere.

I didn't get your "awkward away match" to mean that BATE would be a tough opponent, but that it would be a pain to get to and the destination is not worth the bother. Honestly, I don't see how BATE would be a problem for Arsenal, footballwise. Some of my friends have kept an eye on Eastern European leagues a fair bit more than I have, and they say that BATE has the weakest team they've had in years and that that's pretty much the only team Crvena Zvezda has a shot of beating without raising enough eyebrows to warrant an investigation of "funny" bets around the world.

Crvena Zvezda has improved a bit compared to previous seasons obviously, since they have finally managed to reach the group stage. Still, if they present a problem for Arsenal, either at home or away, I'll be very surprised.

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20 minutes ago, JordanJH1993 said:

This idea of Chamberlain being a central midfield player has always been weird, to me. I've seen him play there a few times, but have never noticed him being more naturally suited to that role. His best games for Arsenal have come on the wing or wingback.

It seems this notion of Chamberlain being a centre midfielder is something he has come up with himself, despite not truly suiting the role. A bit like Theo Walcott proclaiming he was a centre forward for years, when everyone but him knew he was better on the wing.

Can't say I agree. Chamberlain has had some good games on the wing no doubt and maybe even his best games. But that's more due to the sum of games played there rather than the fit of the role. There has been significantly more games where he was anonymous or fucked up the final ball because his crossing ability is so meh. I always felt his consistency at CM was much better, his influence much more strongly felt, that he didn't overly rely on mismanaged crosses and that his skill in beating the man in front of him lead to some strong breaks.

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1 hour ago, baxus said:

I didn't get your "awkward away match" to mean that BATE would be a tough opponent, but that it would be a pain to get to and the destination is not worth the bother. Honestly, I don't see how BATE would be a problem for Arsenal, footballwise. Some of my friends have kept an eye on Eastern European leagues a fair bit more than I have, and they say that BATE has the weakest team they've had in years and that that's pretty much the only team Crvena Zvezda has a shot of beating without raising enough eyebrows to warrant an investigation of "funny" bets around the world.

Crvena Zvezda has improved a bit compared to previous seasons obviously, since they have finally managed to reach the group stage. Still, if they present a problem for Arsenal, either at home or away, I'll be very surprised.

I was thinking that as well as being hard to get to/having an inclement climate/hostile fans, you still need a team that is strong enough to take advantage of that situation. I don't know anything about Belarussian football, but the BATE side of a few years ago had that - beating Roma, Athletic Club and Bayern Munich in the Champions League group stages - but what your friends said does seem to make sense looking at their last couple of European campaigns.

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